What is a True Collector?

[IGWT]

TerrapinWill made the following comment in another thread:

 

I think ther are very few "true collectors". My definition of "true collector" is someone who collects coins for the enjoyment of it. Someone who fills albums with raw coins, buys some slabbed coins, but in the end is not worried anout the future value of the coins they buy.

 

But doesn't that mean that a "true collector" also shouldn't care about the price of a coin that he buys today? Why would a collector care about today's value if he has no concern about tomorrow's value? The future, after all, is just a second away; and "future value" is always tied to "present value." A "true collector," under this definition, wouldn't hesitate to pay multiples of a fair price for a coin; and, in fact, he wouldn't even care if the coin has undisclosed problems that affect value. He is ripe to be ripped off and wouldn't really care if it happened.

 

I like to think of myself as a "true collector" -- not an investor -- who is driven by the enjoyment of numismatics. Still, I cannot totally disregard the value of a coin when considering the price that I'm willing to pay. Collecting only with disposable income (as Michael likes to advocate) is different from throwing money away. One of my first posts when I joined this forum describes how I feel: I have the soul of a collector trapped in the body of an investor.

 

What do you think of TerrapinWill's definition of "true collector"? Does concern for the value of a coin when making a purchase disqualify me from the ranks of "true collectors"?

[HaydenTubbs]

TerrapinWill made the following comment in another thread:

 

I think ther are very few "true collectors". My definition of "true collector" is someone who collects coins for the enjoyment of it. Someone who fills albums with raw coins, buys some slabbed coins, but in the end is not worried anout the future value of the coins they buy.

 

But doesn't that mean that a "true collector" also shouldn't care about the price of a coin that he buys today? Why would a collector care about today's value if he has no concern about tomorrow's value? The future, after all, is just a second away; and "future value" is always tied to "present value." A "true collector," under this definition, wouldn't hesitate to pay multiples of a fair price for a coin; and, in fact, he wouldn't even care if the coin has undisclosed problems that affect value. He is ripe to be ripped off and wouldn't really care if it happened.

 

I like to think of myself as a "true collector" -- not an investor -- who is driven by the enjoyment of numismatics. Still, I cannot totally disregard the value of a coin when considering the price that I'm willing to pay. Collecting only with disposable income (as Michael likes to advocate) is different from throwing money away. One of my first posts when I joined this forum describes how I feel: I have the soul of a collector trapped in the body of an investor.

 

What do you think of TerrapinWill's definition of "true collector"? Does concern for the value of a coin when making a purchase disqualify me from the ranks of "true collectors"?

 

Well I guess that would make me a true collector/fake collector/investor/wannabe dealer...

[MA_Coins-migration]

I dont think so... I feel a true collector should know the value of what he/she is about to purchase. The more coins you over pay for the less coins you have in your collection unless your pockets are endless.

[GAB]

A true collector is one who keeps a coin or coins, for an unspecified period of time, just because he(she) likes it. Why he(she) likes it doesn't really matter. A coins monetary value is purely market and preference driven. If only one person likes a coin, it is still worth something to the owner, maybe more intrisically than monetarily. If thousands like it, for whatever reason, the monetary value can exceed the intrinsic value for the owner - so it gets sold. And so it goes ....

[TomB]

The definition of a true collector likely changes for each person who considers him/herself to be a true collector.

[cladking]

You'll notice he said "not concerned about the future value". A collector needs to be at least somewhat concerned about the current value or he'll have much less of a collection than what money will buy.

 

I agree with the statement but might add a few more requirements to define a true collector. ...and certainly TomB is right that the individual defines the term for himself to a large degree. To each his own.

[IGWT]

You'll notice he said "not concerned about the future value".

 

I did notice; and I tried to explain why the present value is inseparable from future value. Why would a collector be concerned about the value of the coin that he buys today but not about the value of that same coin tomorrow? The only way that it makes sense is by viewing a coin as emphemeral (like paying to see a movie) or as consumable (like paying to eat a Big Mac). Maybe TerrapinWill sees coins in that way -- and I'm not saying that it's right or wrong -- but I don't. And I don't think that a collector has to view coins in that way to qualify as a "true collector."

 

I agree with the statement but might add a few more requirements to define a true collector

 

What other requirements would you add?

[cladking]

 

What other requirements would you add?

 

 

A real collector is concerned more with the coins and what they can teach than with what they'll sell for in the future.

 

A real collector knows he will not be the last to own a coin and that he need preserve it for the future.

 

A real collector seeks completeness no matter how he defines it.

 

A real collector tends to find like minded individuals to talk about coins or whatever each collects.

 

A real collector does not fear learning about things outside of his speacialty.

[James_OldeTowne]

I just got from Heritage yesterday, something that I consider rather silly, though they obviously put a lot of time and expense into it. It's a brochure full of testimonials from consignors praising Heritage for how much $money$ they got from the sale of their coins. Conspicuous by it's absence in a brochure like this is - a lot of what it means to be a collector to me.

 

First, here's what the typical letter sounds like:

 

Dear Heritage,

 

I am so pleased with how well my coins did in the Long Bleach Auction of last August. Most of my coins brought 15% or more above estimate, with some as high as 50%! The cataloging was sooooo impressive, and it got a lot of bidders to drive up prices well beyond retail. I knew that nobody else would be able to get as much $money$ for my coins as you did, and I also enjoyed the fine catalog put together by your staff. I would recommend your firm to anyone who wants to maximize the $money$ they can get from the sale of their coins.

 

Yours Truly,

 

Cornelius Coincob

 

There are literally dozens and dozens and dozens of such letters in the brochure, all of them bragging about how happy with consignor was with the $money$ he received. So what's missing from this scenario ?

 

That's right - no letter from a consignor thanking Heritage for how well they did BUYING from an auction, and that's what I find very sad. Heritage evidently wasn't able to find a single letter from a COIN COLLECTOR praising them for the great deal they got on a coin, or the fine job the did of putting together an auction of coins that the average collector can actually afford. I did not see a single letter from a COLLECTOR thanking Heritage for making it possible to pick up coins for 15% UNDER retail.

 

No, the Heritage brochure seems to be all about how much $money$ I as a potential consignor can get for my coins if I'll just consign to them. Then, I can become just like those other clients, and write a letter praising them for how glad I am that collectors paid 15% more than they should have for my coins.

 

At least this brochure taught me what a real collector is NOT

 

James

[James_OldeTowne]

By the way, the "other thread" is this one , if anyone is curious.

 

James

[cpm9ball]

I agree with Tom. Each collector sets their own parameters. Should they be diminished by the fact that they collect only moderns, proofs, errors, varieties, 19th century, etc.? No! At the same time, they shouldn't be excluded because they resell for profit or attempt to improve their collection by selling for upgrades.

 

If I decided to start a collection just of coins that I picked up at convenience store parking lots, wouldn't I be a true collector for the conditions I've set for myself?

 

Chris

[IGWT]

A real collector is concerned more with the coins and what they can teach than with what they'll sell for in the future.

 

A real collector knows he will not be the last to own a coin and that he need preserve it for the future.

 

A real collector seeks completeness no matter how he defines it.

 

A real collector tends to find like minded individuals to talk about coins or whatever each collects.

 

A real collector does not fear learning about things outside of his speacialty.

 

[John Martinez]

If someone gets a call from a coin dealer....they give them the story of how Gold is at a multi-year high, that rare coin prices are going through the roof, that you can hold these coins in your 401k, and they go for it, store it away, no idea about it's history, grade, nothing....that is NOT a collector...that IS an investor.

 

If someone has been assembling a collection over years, finds a better coin then sells the lesser grade coin for a profit...that IS a collector. If I run across a coin at a good deal then re-sell it for a profit because it does not fit my collection, does that make me an investor? No. Does that make me a wanna-be dealer? No. It makes me smart (not that I claim to be a genius) that I applied the knowledge gained from my hobby to make a buck.

 

Do I wish my collection will increase in value? Yes. It that my motovation? No.

[supertooth]

Ok My Friend IGWT---- I have thought a little about this one. Since I am older than most of you and been collecting longer than most of you have been alive, I figured that a thoughtful response was in order to this question. A 'true collector' should be like a 'true friend'----always there---always helpful---always supportive. And he should never lie to you. So a true collector should never tell you a lie. Boy does that eliminate a lot of people!! Next---A true collector should never purposely ever harm a coin. For he knows that he is but a caretaker for that coin while he owns it. When he dies or sells any coin, then someone else is then responsible. So, a true collector should endeavor to cherish the coins in his care for as long as he owns them. A doctor's first rule is to "Do no harm". A true collector should be the same. A true collector "must" think about money----but money should not be "all things" to the true collector. If you buy and sell solely thinking of a profit, then you are not a collector----you are a businessman trying to make a living. A true collector tries to "protect" his hobby and the coins. He stands up when things are out of kilter. He does not yell or scream---he just puts out the facts that he sees that need to be said if he sees the need. He puts the 'life' of the hobby above himself and above his own collection. He stands for truth and honesty within the hobby. A true collector is not "possessed" by greed. The coins do not control him. He controls the coins. Sometimes some of us forget that there really are other important things in ones life besides having the best of the best in coins. I guess a true collector must---at times---leave his big fat EGO at the door. And that is not an easy thing to do for many folks. And finally, a true collector should give back his knowledge where he can do some good. Oh, I do not mean making it easy for others. But just being plain nice when you get the chance. Share your wealth of knowledge. There is a good feeling when you save others from making mistakes. They need to learn---this is true. But help them along if you can. All of us had to start somewhere. But help the guy get a leg up. It never hurts to be a nice person. Heck, you might even like yourself a little better. Bob [supertooth]

[Hoot]

A collector accumulates objects systematically. Value is a secondary aspect of this.

 

A hoarder accumulates objects indiscriminately. Again, value is secondary.

 

I like to think that a coin collector knows what they've got in their collection, knows the intrinsic and monetary values of their coins, knows how to properly keep their coins so that future generations will be able to have the bounty, knows why they have what they have, and has a sense of fascination and history attached to their collection. However, these are all secondary congnitive constructs.

 

I believe that most coin "collectors" are really just coin hoarders. Ask them what they have and you'll find that they accumulated them so indicriminately that they cannot tell you with anything more than the most general accuracy.

 

They gray area between hoarders and collectors is wide.

 

Hoot

[EZ_E]

If someone gets a call from a coin dealer....they give them the story of how Gold is at a multi-year high, that rare coin prices are going through the roof, that you can hold these coins in your 401k, and they go for it, store it away, no idea about it's history, grade, nothing....that is NOT a collector...that IS an investor.

 

If someone has been assembling a collection over years, finds a better coin then sells the lesser grade coin for a profit...that IS a collector. If I run across a coin at a good deal then re-sell it for a profit because it does not fit my collection, does that make me an investor? No. Does that make me a wanna-be dealer? No. It makes me smart (not that I claim to be a genius) that I applied the knowledge gained from my hobby to make a buck.

 

Do I wish my collection will increase in value? Yes. It that my motovation? No.

 

Very well stated!

 

My sentiments exactly.

 

I believe that most coin "collectors" are really just coin hoarders. Ask them what they have and you'll find that they accumulated them so indicriminately that they cannot tell you with anything more than the most general accuracy.

 

Most newbies start out this way but, usually [hopefully], as they become more seasoned collectors, their collecting habits become more refined.

[GDJMSP]

Its been a while since I've posted here, no reason really I just haven't. But this topic begs a response. And my response is this - rather than asking how to define a true collector, I would ask who cares how you define it and why should it matter ?

[TerrapinWill]

Somehwat typical "taking comments out of context" BS.

 

here is what I said

 

 

<<I consider a "collector" to be a hobbyist, someone who collects coins for enjoyment, relaxation, etc. the collector always does their best to get the most coin for the money, but in general doesnt worry about future value or liquidity since they collect with no intnetion of selling.>>

 

Now, I stand by this. The claim that money is irrelevant, which seems to me to be what you are implying, is not what i said. But I stick by my opinion that too may people collect plastic, and buy over their heads hoping to make a few bucks. The person who buys hoping their coins will increase, or buys with anything other than disposable income (excepting very high end colectors, who are in fact investors) might be "collectors" but are certainly not hobbyists, which was my entire point.

IGWT...you missed the point entirely.+

[IGWT]

Hi TerrapinWill --

 

This is the quote that I attributed to you at the beginning of this thread:

 

I think ther are very few "true collectors". My definition of "true collector" is someone who collects coins for the enjoyment of it. Someone who fills albums with raw coins, buys some slabbed coins, but in the end is not worried anout the future value of the coins they buy.

 

The quote was taken from your post in this thread. Here is what you actually said in its entirety:

 

If I may add my opinion to the heap....

 

I think ther are very few "true collectors". My definition of "true collector" is someone who collects coins for the enjoyment of it. Someone who fills albums with raw coins, buys some slabbed coins, but in the end is not worried anout the future value of the coins they buy.

 

I'm not ridiculing what others colelct or do with their money, just saying that if you are worried about future value, then it's not a hobby. JMHO

 

You can see that I did not take your quote out of context; in fact, I reproduced almost the entire post. I do not see any part of your post that would change the meaning of the excerpt. There is no "BS," as you assert, and certainly no misrepresentation of your words on my part. After I started this thread, I noticed that you started another tread with almost the same title. You chose to expand upon and to clarify your thoughts in that thread instead of this one. I'm not sure why.

 

I thought that your idea -- the one that I quoted to start this thread -- was an interesting point on which to start a conversation. You expressed an opinion with which I have some disagreement -- that's the stuff of interesting discussion, and I intended no disrespect whatsoever. In fact, I respect you for the opinion that you voiced. I do not respect the assertion, however, that I engaged in "typical 'taking comments out of context' BS." I did not; and, unfortunately, you put me in the position of refuting that charge in the place where you made it.

 

I apologize if I missed your point, and I look forward to many more interesting, informative discussions to come. We share many of the same thoughts and ideas, and it's always fun to explore differences.