The Pain of the ALMOST Problem-Free Coin

[TomB]

Different collectors have different limits of tolerance for coins that have problems. Some collectors want strictly original pieces, even if this means disqualifying the vast majority of coins; many make allowances for particular dates or varieties; some will grudgingly accept tough coins for sets; while still others have no clue what they are doing and purchase anything. I am generally in the first category, yet will admit that for the right coin I will make some room.

 

Today I had some time while traveling between my hospital and company-based labs to stop at a favorite coin shop. The owner is knowledgeable, friendly and honest. We have sold coins to each other and have done other business together in the past. Thankfully, he usually has a tray of Barber half dollars, perhaps one or two dozen, and I always look through them.

 

His shop is large and when he saw me on the sidewalk he immediately hit the buzzer to let me in and then told me to help myself with whatever case of coins I wanted to look at since he was busy with someone else. I took out the tray of Barber halves and began scanning the coins. They were the typical fare of AG/G coins, but were still unusual in that none were harshly cleaned and nearly all would be considered solid, original coins. A few, however, were nicer.

 

The two that I ended up purchasing were a nice VF20 1902 and a very attractive, gunky and solid F12 1914-S. The two that left me in agony were the VF30 1904 with a small, circular gouge through the eagle's wings and shield and a VF25 1894 with a rim bump at 2:00 o'clock. For the Barber half enthusiasts, let me repeat that last date, a VF25 1894! You may have to collect the series to understand or appreciate the rancor.

 

I looked at that 1894 for a long time. The rim bump was not visible from the reverse and the rim was not discolored in the injured area. However, the metal was displaced enough to make the area look flat and to have that part of the rim be the highest point on the coin. It was a darn shame. I don't know if there is a way to re-set the rim to its proper position without making the coin worse for the remedy.

 

What are the problems, if any, that you are willing to overlook and on what coins will you accept them? For me, I will overlook minor problems on 1904-S Barber halves in F12 and above and will overlook nearly any problem on any grade 1802 Draped Bust half.

[shirohniichan]

What are the problems, if any, that you are willing to overlook and on what coins will you accept them? For me, I will overlook minor problems on 1904-S Barber halves in F12 and above and will overlook nearly any problem on any grade 1802 Draped Bust half.

 

I take 1876 type II/II trade dollars in any condition, as long as they aren't priced too high. The only two I have been able to find in about 7 years of searching were both cleaned. My bids on the two problem-free examples I saw listed in an auction catalog (but never saw with my own eyes) were second place, even though I bid three times greysheet on them.

 

I think I'm at the point where I'll take an 1876 Romanian leu in any condition, also.

[IGWT]

Hmmm. I bought an 1873 op.3 5c that has a "Z"-shaped ding/scratch on the chief of the shield. PCGS graded it a 62 -- the defect obviously knocked the grade down 2-3 points -- but it probably should have been BB'd. The price I paid reflected the problem; but, I wouldn't have paid anything except it was an unattributed DDO that I probably won't ever see again. Sometimes it's not true that "there are always more coins out there" or at least not true enough to pass on a coin despite its problem.

[Hoot]

What are the problems, if any, that you are willing to overlook and on what coins will you accept them?

 

With old copper, particularly 1814 and before, I'm willing to overlook a great deal in the way of "problems." Porosity can be rather fetching, as long as it's mild and even. To many of the early cents and little sisters that get rejected by the grading services, I'm really quite attracted. Dings, scratches, gouges, re-toning, and graffiti can be part of the originality of the coin and can tell a story of the trail it blazed.

 

Hoot

[EZ_E]

I've been moderately searching for an AU 58 sm. planchet Bust Dime for a couple of years now. I haven't found one that wasn't hairlined or cleaned. One was close but had hairlines by the date. Maybe I can find one next weekend in Portland?

[Merc]

What about coins where one side is a much lower grade than the other? I've seen many Barber halves where the obverse is a VG 8 and the reverse is AG. I pass on these coins.

[supertooth]

Tom B----- One of the things that I very much like about you----besides that we think much alike---is the absolutely interesting threads that you "test" us with. You indeed put a lot of thoughtful thought into your collecting and the "hobby" itself. Before your head gets any bigger, I will respond to this thread now. At almost 59 years of age, I have seen an awful lot of coins. Went through tons of them as a kid. Now into my later years----I am quite serious about my halves. In my youth, I managed to find only three Barbers in change. I still have two of them---a 1913 in VG and a 1907--0 in Fine++. I regret selling the 11S in VG. But I have been fortunate to buy many as these last years have presented them. You know the story of my Walkers. Years of constant looking. Ebay and I are old friends. What you learn is to KNOW what is rare. You know that!! If you do not see it for years on end, and you are seriously looking everywhere for it---then my friend----it is rare. Also, you learn to "allow" for the grade and the "originality" of the coin. Do you expect a VF20 Barber to be perfect?? Or an "early" Walker? Or do you expect to see the normal circulation wear and accompaning problems? As an example, I bought a 1919 Walker---clearly an Xf and charcoal original like I like them. It had an "old" light scratch on the obverse----a shame----bought it anyway. NGC gave me a VF35 grading. They knocked it down because of the scratch even though you can not see it with the naked eye. It is still a beautiful coin. It is better looking than the original NGC XF45 coin that I have in my set. Now, yes indeed, I do hunt for the "perfect" coins for the grade. Sometimes you do indeed find them. But I would almost never pass on a coin that was "original" for the grade----If I knew that I might never see that coin in that grade---ever again. Or at least for many years. Another example. I have three NGC graded 1917S Obv Walkers out of a total of 47 that NGC has graded from VF20 to AU55. But the 1920 D is even tougher to get in an NGC holder. Original "early" Walkers are just like your Barbers. Better pick them up when you can. If you find a better one down the road, it is easy to sell the first one when it is replaced. But each of my 17S Obv have their own character for their grade. A VF20---an XF40 [which you unknowningly helped me on]---and an Au55. I enjoy each one for the grade that they are---but I do not expect the VF20 to be as perfect as the Au55. I only expect it to be what it is for a VF20 coin. It would be hard for me to sell any one of the three. I know how tough it is to find them. So, if I were you, I would cherish the originality of the rim bump----buy the 1894 [if the price is right]----and, if you are ever lucky enough to find another that you like better, you can then resell this one. In the meantime, you can appreciate the coin for what it is----and it will always sell later for more money. Ask yourself a question when you see a coin you want or need. Will I ever likely see another one?? If the answer is uncertain-----bird in hand is worth a whole lot of wishing you had later on. And, it is a no brainer, cause you can always get your money out of a "rare" coin if you hold it for at least 10 years. Naturally you must know when exactly to resell. That goes without saying. And, my last point. If you have the coin, you can always use it as a trade. You just never know when someone might bargain with you and give you something that you value more?? Bob [supertooth]

[TomB]

Before your head gets any bigger, I will respond to this thread now.

That is exactly what I was thinking when I read the intro to your post!

 

You bring up some insightful and valid points, Bob, and I'm not surprised because I think the early WLHs are the next frontier; similar to Barber halves a few years ago. This dealer also has WLHs in the case next to the Barbers and I must admit that I admired the 1918, 1918-S and 1917-S (Rev) that were sitting there. My feel for F12-VF30 WLHs of this era is weak, but I might look at them again next time and, who knows, perhaps a year from now we will see that I have 20 or 30 early WLHs.

[supertooth]

Tom B----- Recently James [Early US] had a post on grading an "early" Walker. I knew that he did not really need me to grade it----but I sent him a list of the "early" Walkers in VF--Au grades---telling him those coins that I felt were the rarest. And in the order of their rariety. Like you----I keep track of coins that I see. Sometimes even the cleaned pieces. A lot of it is "in my head" but stats are also written down. In reality, the "early" Walkers in true "original" shape are as scarce as hens teeth. Today I just got a plain 1917 original skinned coin in Ms64-65. I was soooo thrilled with it. Why?? Because even the lowly 17 is now hard to find in "original skinned" condition. Everybody dips everything it seems these days and then tells the consumer that they cannot tell the difference. I say huey to that. My encouragement to you on the Walkers would be----do not think it would be easy. Because it will not be. Like I told James. It will never be the money. It will always be finding the coin. Awhile back I bought a 29D Vf25 Walker off of Yahoo. It was a perfect VF25 in every respect. I paid 40 bucks for it----way tooo much. The owner sent it to me for "free" cause he felt so badly. I told him not to worry. Even a 29D is hard to find in a true VF25----perfect for the grade. I would buy another----if I could find it. So, if that is true, think how hard the rarer dates are to find? Near about impossible these days. Try to match a set to your 1921. It will take you awhile. Add 5-10 points to that grade and then try it. Well, you will be looking for quite awhile. Bob [supertooth]

[originalisbest]

supertooth, I will echo your sentiments on the toughness of ORIGINAL early Walkers. I just got a great, honest, "crusty" never-messed-with '21-P in vg from my favorite local dealer - he's been slowly putting out a collection he bought from a man whose father had finished socking it all away over 40 years ago.

[supertooth]

Tom B----Sent you two long PM's. Let me know that you got both of them please. As to the 21 that you got---originalisbest---that is a great coin. Do not stop there. It is worth the trouble to collect this set. They are beautiful coins. Bob [supertooth]

[TomB]

Thank you for taking the time and effort, Bob!

[Oldtrader3]

I think that sometimes that I compromise too much on scarce (R-4+) coins that I need for a set. Then later, I compare with dealers stock and other registry sets. I guess the bottom line is that I am fussy also. With the exception of a few clunkers (sold by the way), I generally have decent coins. However, I also am much more patient now after (40) years of collecting. I have been looking for a MS63/64 1910-S Barber half for about (2) years now and have only found (2) that were acceptable and one of those was out of my price range, even for a decent MS64.