I may sacrifice a $143.75 (+ S&H) PCGS grading mistake in pursuit of knowledge!

[James_OldeTowne]

First the facts:

 

A few weeks ago, I won an 1865 two-cent, graded MS-63 RB by PCGS for $125 plus the buyer's premium, for a total of $143.75 and shipping, from a Heritage "Exclusively Internet" auction. As you may know, Heritage basically has a "no return" policy. I have no idea why I bought the coin - sight-unseen to boot. I guess I hadn't bid in an on-line auction in a while, and was just feeling bored.

 

I got the coin right away, as Heritage is great about shipping quickly. The instant I looked at the coin, I knew it was a piece of junk. It seems painfully obvious to me that the lower third of the obverse had been corroded, the corrosion removed, and the whole coin artificially retoned. From the image I've provided below (click the thumbnail), you can see the roughness, and the color is just wacky.

 

 

Now, my plan!

 

I've been down the road before for an "appearance review" (ie. the Norweb Hibernia fiasco), and don't want to bother with a $150 coin anyway. I considered dumping it on eBay, but I don't want to just pass along another mistake to another unsuspecting buyer. So as of this morning, I have decided that tonight, I'll crack it out, and I'm going to dip the heck out of it until it is bright pink, just to prove to myself that it really was corroded. Then, I'm going to use it for a retoning experiment. I'm going to wrap it in newspaper, and let it sit in the basement for a few weeks.

 

What do you think - stupid idea?

 

James

[gmarguli]

It may just have a fugly planchet. It's hard to tell from the picture. I'd show it to PCGS at a show and ask about it. It's clearly an ugly coin, but todays MS63s are many times ugly.

[gmarguli]

I should have also said, I'd not dip it. You'll just ruin it even more. Someone would like to have this example of it - even if it isn't very eye appealing.

[TerrapinWill]

I guess if 143.75 is easy for you to throw away, go ahead. I don't see why you would do that. perhaps you could get a good portion of your money back.

[Hoot]

I should have also said, I'd not dip it. You'll just ruin it even more. Someone would like to have this example of it - even if it isn't very eye appealing.

 

I'd agree with this. If you want to remove the ugly toning, I'd start with Coin Care and see what comes off with a Q-tip. Reassess from there. Getting radical, I might use MS70 on the coin after the Coin Care, but only carefully, then dip in acetone. I sometimes then leave copper treated this way in the open air or in a jeweler's tray for a few weeks to several months. Then re-do the Coin Care and let it sit with it on the surface over night, then brush with a camel hair brush. Sell raw, and state the problems.

 

Hoot

[jom]

In the picture the coin looks nice....but if it is anything like the garbage you see in Heritage's auctions I wouldn't be surprised if it was a mess once you see it "live".

 

Heritage had a TWO catalog sale at this past LB show along with some currency auction and another internet auction. After looking thru most of the former I can tell you that these "Signature" auctions are nothing more than Heritage trying to dump their stock/inventory. This is quite different that what I saw at the ANR auction a few days before.....where there were MANY coins I wanted to bid on...too many in fact.

 

Stay away from sight-unseen Heritage auctions....

 

jom

[gmarguli]

Heritage had a TWO catalog sale at this past LB show along with some currency auction and another internet auction. After looking thru most of the former I can tell you that these "Signature" auctions are nothing more than Heritage trying to dump their stock/inventory.

 

I don't think it is Heritage dumping their stuff as much as dealers dumping their stuff. I have no idea what percentage of a Heritage Signature auction is their stuff, but I wouldn't assume it is a large percentage. Seems to me that Heritage would have many better and faster ways of moving their coins, but I could be wrong.

[Mozin]

I would sell the coin as it is and get it off my mind quickly.

[TomB]

Heritage will accept the coin without problem and will issue a refund minus 10%. However, you have to call them and tell them the coin will be returned within about five days of receipt. If they really like you, and they apparently really like me, they will refund you 100% of the price, including the juice. This is a much better plan than chucking $150 or ruining what might be simply a fugly coin.

[ElectricEye-migration]

I volunteer to chopmark it for you after the dip.

[michael]

like tomb said

 

but lets assume you are going to keep it then you got to break it out and put care on the coin and rub it is good wait a week and then wipe off as much excess as you can

 

then you go and get some cow sh*t a small pile of it and you put the coin inside the cow sh*t for a couple of weeks or so and keep checkling it bi weekly until you get the right retoned coin you want to

[michael]

and if you really want to get picky aBOUT it mix 2/3 cow sh*t with 1/3 horse sh*t and that is an even better arrangement

 

if you can coem up with the horse sh*t that is if not just use the cow sh*t

[michael]

and yes i am 100% dead serious with the above two posts

[Hoot]

and yes i am 100% dead serious with the above two posts

 

This is the sh*ttiest solution yet.

 

I LOVE it! And around here, there's a lot of raw material to work with!

 

And I thought my suggestion was a little out there!

 

Fabulous, Michael, as always.

 

Hoot

[BankNote1]

I am not sure I see any corrosion!?! Many 2 cent pieces are just ugly. I am not sure I have ever seen one that I thought was pretty. I wouldn't break it out of the PCGS holder. If you think it needs working on send it to NCS and see what they can do.

[Hoot]

I am not sure I see any corrosion!?! Many 2 cent pieces are just ugly. I am not sure I have ever seen one that I thought was pretty. I wouldn't break it out of the PCGS holder. If you think it needs working on send it to NCS and see what they can do.

 

They'll most likely do nothing. Few times that I've sent cruddy copper to NCS did they do anything at my behest. This has been true even when I sent them raw, low value copper that I simply wanted cleaned the best way possible and returned to me ungraded. (I ended up doing those myself, unfortunately.)

 

Hoot

[IGWT]

and if you really want to get picky aBOUT it mix 2/3 cow sh*t with 1/3 horse sh*t and that is an even better arrangement

 

if you can coem up with the horse sh*t that is if not just use the cow sh*t

 

I think Michael neglected to mention that his concoction also includes a large portion of bullsh*t.

 

and yes i am 100% dead serious with the above two posts

 

Maybe its time for TomB to update the "Science of Toning" page on his website.

[HaydenTubbs]

and if you really want to get picky aBOUT it mix 2/3 cow sh*t with 1/3 horse sh*t and that is an even better arrangement

 

if you can coem up with the horse sh*t that is if not just use the cow sh*t

 

I think Michael neglected to mention that his concoction also includes a large portion of bullsh*t.

 

 

I'll be happy to loan my Cowaski...

[TomB]

Maybe its time for TomB to update the "Science of Toning" page on his website.

You just might be onto something...

[HaydenTubbs]

Maybe its time for TomB to update the "Science of Toning" page on his website.

You just might be onto something...

 

Perhaps you could enlight us more as to the "Science of Artificial Toning"

[michael]

doctor george french the famous and celebrated large cent collector of the late 19th to early 20th century lived in rochester ny and was visited by many celebrated large cent collectors and this was one of the ways to retone an improperly cleaned copper coin and of course in this horse and buggy days there was much material around to use and experiment with

 

and he happened to live a few blocks down the street from where i currently live!

[Weather11-migration]

When your done...can i have it?

[Oldtrader3]

All I have is cat sh*t, Michael. Would this also work.

[BankNote1]

I have plenty of dog sh*t you could add to the mix!

[shirohniichan]

Am I naive in assuming you can send it to PCGS and have them buy it back under their grade guarantee?

[TomB]

Hey shiroh,

[Ambassador]

like tomb said

 

but lets assume you are going to keep it then you got to break it out and put care on the coin and rub it is good wait a week and then wipe off as much excess as you can

 

then you go and get some cow sh*t a small pile of it and you put the coin inside the cow sh*t for a couple of weeks or so and keep checkling it bi weekly until you get the right retoned coin you want to

 

So that's why they always say "don't put money in your mouth"

[James_OldeTowne]

In blatant disregard for some of the advice given in this thread (grading guarantee, artificial poop-toning), I threw all caution to the wind and dipped the dog-poop out of this coin. As predicted, it turned bright pink (shock).

 

However, what you likely don't know is that I have had the coin wrapped up in newspaper over the last several weeks, and sitting on an incandescent lamp that has been left on that whole time. This weekend, I will unwrap the package and discover what treasure may therein.

 

Any predictions? Will the coin still be pink? blue? candy-apple yellow with overtones of purple-plaid?? Will I be able to see Dilbert's face superimposed over the Shield of Liberty?????

 

Stay tuned for Monday, when I reveal the results of this fascinating experiment!

 

(And please, stay away from the cow-patties.)

 

James

[cpm9ball]

In blatant disregard for some of the advice given in this thread (grading guarantee, artificial poop-toning), I threw all caution to the wind and dipped the dog-poop out of this coin. As predicted, it turned bright pink (shock).

 

However, what you likely don't know is that I have had the coin wrapped up in newspaper over the last several weeks, and sitting on an incandescent lamp that has been left on that whole time. This weekend, I will unwrap the package and discover what treasure may therein.

 

Any predictions? Will the coin still be pink? blue? candy-apple yellow with overtones of purple-plaid?? Will I be able to see Dilbert's face superimposed over the Shield of Liberty?????

 

Stay tuned for Monday, when I reveal the results of this fascinating experiment!

 

(And please, stay away from the cow-patties.)

 

James

 

James, would that be considered a "GNAT" ? ................ Good Natural Artificial Toning .........I'm "shocked!".........You can hype it until you're "blue" in the face!..............If you tried to hawk it on eBay, you'd be plain "yellow" if you didn't own up to it!..........However, if it sold for 6 figures, I'd be tickled "pink" for you!

 

Chris

[Bruceswar]

lets just hope dilbert does not appear