Maybe first-generation slabs really are conservatively graded?

[James_OldeTowne]

As mentioned in another thread, I did an appraisal last night. One of the coolest things was a grouping of five large black boxes chock-full of slabs purchased off of TeleTrade - in 1991 ! ALL of these are very early-generation slabs, including rattlers (PCGS), flat-edge fatties (NGC), and the blue-label ANACS slabs. If you can believe it, a couple of the TeleTrade shipping packages had not even been opened - they were still wrapped up with USPS Registered tape.

 

Here's what the most startling thing was to me: virtually none of the coins is overgraded.

 

I think it's generally acknowledged that grading standards have loosened up - too much in my opinion. The theory is that coins certified in 1991 tend to be conservatively graded. Yet, most of the "old" slabs we see these days do not appear particularly conservatively graded. In fact, I would almost propose that the coins usually seen in older slabs are actually overgraded. The reason is simply that most of the coins that would have qualified for an upgrade have been cracked out already, and now result in current-generation slabs.

 

Because this part of the collection I looked at last night hasn't seen light of day in 14 years, these coins have not been filtered through and resubmitted. So indeed, they do seem conservatively graded overall by today's standards. I was truly amazed at how consistent and conservative the grades were across the board, for NGC, ANACS and PCGS.

 

What do you guys think?

 

James

[jom]

I believe it is NOT in the best interest of the TPG's to be consistant. If they were who would resubmit? Why bother when you know the coin won't come back in a higher grade?

 

Hence a more tougher/looser strategy is profitable.

 

jom

[BankNote1]

I am sure that some of the coins would come back at higher grades.

[IGWT]

What do you guys think?

 

I think I want to know what coins are in the slabs that were in the black boxes.

 

Many collectors believe that few, if any, coins still in old slabs are conservatively graded. Anything worthy of an upgrade, the reasoning goes, has already been submitted. This reasoning likely holds true for the majority of older generation holders; but, I'm not so sure that it's true (1) where there isn't a large price spread between certain grades for a particular issue, or (2) where a certain series as a whole isn't particularly popular. For the area in which I concentrate, I find that coins in older generation holders still tend to be conservatively graded compared to today's "standards" (although I don't think that "more conservatively graded" necessarily means "undergraded").

[midwest]

What do you guys think?

 

I think I want to know what coins are in the slabs that were in the black boxes.

 

Many collectors believe that few, if any, coins still in old slabs are conservatively graded. Anything worthy of an upgrade, the reasoning goes, has already been submitted. This reasoning likely holds true for the majority of older generation holders; but, I'm not so sure that it's true (1) where there isn't a large price spread between certain grades for a particular issue, or (2) where a certain series as a whole isn't particularly popular. For the area in which I concentrate, I find that coins in older generation holders still tend to be conservatively graded compared to today's "standards" (although I don't think that "more conservatively graded" necessarily means "undergraded").

 

Don't forget undesignated cameos, deep cameos, FS,ETC

[michael]

i need to see the coins in the slab on a specific coin in a slab on an individual basis

 

i have no doubt that many older/newer/brand new last six months holdered coins are correctly graded some under and some over graded

 

and i bet that these particular coins not seeing the light of day since 1991 are at the very least correctly graded to maybe under graded

 

i guess it is on a coin by coin basis in the beginning of slabbing services all where more conservative and now some are overgrading but the majority are for me within a reasonable standard for average eye appeal and grade even if low end

 

but for me there are still coins graded that are correctly graded and nice really nice for the grade and with superb eye appeal these are the coins i am onmly interested in they are out there and just as hard to find today as 15 20 years ago

[rexcat]

I believe it is NOT in the best interest of the TPG's to be consistant. If they were who would resubmit? Why bother when you know the coin won't come back in a higher grade?

 

Hence a more tougher/looser strategy is profitable.

 

jom

Couldn’t agree more.

 

Don't forget undesignated cameos, deep cameos, FS,ETC

Like this one Midwest?

Pulled this baby out of a half priced bin at a local coin show a couple of years ago.

 

[Oldtrader3]

Hoot and I were posting recently about the sine-wave grading trends of both services over time. Since their beginnings, I have seen both services go through these high-low submission grade curves with old slabs, middle aged slabs and newer slabs. I believe that a larger, complete sampling of slabs from all different eras is required before generalizing about old slabs vs. new slabs. Sampling a slice of just one era may lead to an erroneous picture.

 

NGC, in particular, lost credibility early in the game vis-a-vis PCGS. I was collecting Mercury dimes then and PCGS dimes almost always went for higher money, sight seen at shows. Later on PCGS had slack grading periods that were not always coincident with NGC.

[cointagious]

Slabbing changed dramatically the day the big 2 started accepting submissions from the great unwashed masses. Until that time, dealers tended to submit the cream. That shift gives the illusion that early grading was tight.

[midwest]

Don't forget undesignated cameos, deep cameos, FS,ETC

Like this one Midwest?

Pulled this baby out of a half priced bin at a local coin show a couple of years ago.

 

 

nice Half price are you kidding me

 

So it is cameo,deep cameo,or "GEM BU" morgan you would buy from a 2 page Coin World advertiser that is actually VF30 that looks like a chrome bumper shiny

 

Also I love those green inserts. If only they made todays inserts green I would love it... of course green is my favorite color.

[TomB]

I believe there was a tendancy to grade more strictly when the TPGs opened, however, I don't know how often one would now find re-submission worthy coins in the older holders on the bourse; unless, of course, those coins were "fresh". The idea that the majority of first generation coins were undergraded gets largely perpetuated by those few gems that are still in their original holders and by sellers wanting to push average to correctly graded material under the guise of a better coin.

[GoYankees]

Here's an oldie but goody I recently purchased...

 

[midwest]

Here's an oldie but goody I recently purchased...

 

 

I think I saw that one on TT I was going to bid but decided not to

[GoYankees]

I think I saw that one on TT I was going to bid but decided not to

 

Thank you.

 

[midwest]

I think I saw that one on TT I was going to bid but decided not to

 

Thank you.

 

 

go submit a coin to ANACS via economy