What do you all think of this appraisal?

[James_OldeTowne]

I did an appraisal last night for a lady who got a few coins appraised by an out-of-town outfit during the summer. Let's call her "Mrs. Bee". She showed me a full two-page advertisement (very expensive!) in the St. Louis Post Dispatch where some company called "Estate Department" was going to be in town to buy coins, jewelry, watches, gold, diamonds, and all sorts of other valuables. Printed at the bottom of each full-page ad was a disclaimer stating basically that "copying of this ad is strictly prohibited" and that posting a copy of it anywhere is subject to prosecution, etc, so I am not showing an image of it here.

 

The ad loudly proclaims that they offer the highest prices for coins, they buy everything, blah blah blah. All of their buyers, with decades of experience, were going to be on hand, giving professional evaluations, and paying in cash.

 

To make a long story short, Mrs. Bee decided to take some of her father's coins to the appraiser and get an offer. She went to the place that "Estate Department" was renting a room from, and filled out the registration card. I've imaged front and back of the card (personal information blacked out). She said the line leading up to the appraisers had at least sixty people in it at all times, extending down one aisle and wrapping over to another, but apparently they move quickly, as she only had to sit there for an hour. There was a promotional video playing the whole time,describing their expertise and credentials in buying coins, and explaining how they offered the best possible prices. She said that in talking with a couple of people, and observing what others had in their hands, most people brought jewelry and coins - many, many coins.

 

Fortunately, as you will see, she had already decided she wasn't selling that day, but was just getting an offer. She had written down what coins she was showing - ten items as you can see by the list. Thinking that the offers seemed very low, she politely took the appraiser's business card and left. Apparently, the appraiser was hoping to see her again, because an appointment time was written on the back of the business card, as well as the words "line pass", meaning she wouldn't have to wait and could go straight to the head of the line if she came back.

 

Here is the list of coins, with the offer, and my comments.

 

1. Lincoln Cents - $110

This is actually a complete set of Wheat cents, including 1909-S VDB, 1914-D and 1931-S (the 1922 plain was actually a "weak D"). Virtually every coin was problem free, with an average grade of Fine. The S-VDB graded a strong VG, the 1914-D a strong FINE, and the 1931-S was an RB UNC.

 

2. 1864-S half-dime - $15

EF details, with hints of corrosion

 

3. 1811/0 large-cent - $200

This was the highest offer made on any of the coins. It is a gorgeous VF coin, in my opinion.

 

4. 1799 bust dollar - $100

VF details, but a bit damaged. Call it FINE.

 

5. 1853 half-dollar - $10 "altered"

There was nothing wrong with this coin, other than possibly being lightly dipped. It grades EF/AU.

 

6. 1872 half-dollar - $10 "altered/cleaned"

This one is a stunner - it is actually an 1872-CC, and it grades at least VF-20! It is not cleaned, and the surfaces are average. Apparently, the appraiser did not mention that it was actually a Carson City coin.

 

7. 1838 bust half - $20 "altered/cleaned"

It is lightly cleaned, but has EF details. Call it VF

 

8. 1833 half-cent - $18 ?

A brown UNC coin! The question mark was because the appraiser questioned whether it was a real coin (which it is).

 

9. 50 Indian Head penny roll - 10c each

All of the coins had at least a full LIBERTY, though they were common dates. No problem coins. Mrs. Bee's father evidently has a whole hoard of IHC rolls.

 

10. 2 rolls of silver dimes - 30c each

I guess this was the most fair offer, as these appear to be common Mercs. However, I did not that there was a high distribution of coins in the 1920s. Here again, Mrs. Bee's father evidently has many rolls of Mercs.

 

 

 

What do you guys think of this? Fortunately, Mrs. Bee took the coins back home to look up what her father had paid for these, and realized that some of these offers were less than what he had paid 50 years ago. I was floored by the extreme low-balling on some of these coins, and have no reason to doubt her story.

 

I'll be interested in your comments.

 

James

[gmarguli]

I'd contact the local DA (and FTC?) and have them look into going after these people. If what you say is true, it sounds like fraud.

[jom]

I don't want to argue law but I'm sure that is NOT fraud.

 

This apprasial company probably just lowballs everyone...it's just business. The protection against something like this is to know what you have and ask around to a lot of people for opinions.

 

This is one of my nightmares actually because if I "croak" too soon my family will be left with my coins and I'm sure they would not know what to do with them. I need to get off my fat arse and write up some instructions...I've been lazy about it. I suggest all the members here to the same. You never know...

 

jom

[gmarguli]

Think of it this way, the coin is a 1799 $ that is Fine and has been cleaned. Let's say that is a $1,000 coin. They "highball" their buyers and tell them that it is a $10,000 coin and sell it. Isn't that fraud? Why wouldn't it be fraud if they do the opposite. How about that coin is in an XYZ slab marked AU50 and they sell it for what an AU50 would sell for. Isn't that fraud?

 

They represent themselves as the experts and "the ad loudly proclaims that they offer the highest prices for coins". I think it could clearly be shown that they offer well under reasonable market.

 

Also, sounds like Mrs. Bee is rather old. It's possible elder abuse.

 

I fully agree that "the protection against something like this is to know what you have and ask around to a lot of people for opinions". However, these people represent themselves as experts.

[James_OldeTowne]

For the record, Mrs. Bee is in her early 60s.

 

James

[Hoot]

I think your point is well taken, Greg, but I think that they could claim that insofar as they know, they pay the highest prices that they know of for the coins that each of their clients presents. It's shady business, run and worked by those who have no conscience about who they rip, but I think that if one were to "go after" them, it'd have to be on a basis other than fraud. (The elder abuse sounds like a possible angle.) I don't know for certain, as I'm not a lawyer. (And I hate to agree with jom, as he's nearly always wrong about nearly everything.)

 

Hoot

[TerrapinWill]

What scumbags. People like these lowlifes know exactly how far they can go. Obviously there are no laws being broken, as fair exchange is no robbery and opinions are subjective.

 

Just makes me sick. If I were a dealer, I would go to wherever this was happening and handout my business card and say "come see me for an honest appraisal"

[kranky]

Just makes me sick. If I were a dealer, I would go to wherever this was happening and handout my business card and say "come see me for an honest appraisal"

 

Boy, that would start some fireworks! They'd have the hotel oust you ASAP. Now if you rented a room at the hotel so you had a right to be in the public areas... that would be interesting.

[michael]

[Oldtrader3]

How many hundred "Estate" dealers on EBay do exactly the same thing? This is the dark underbelly of our hobby, but IMHO it is widespread and pervasive. Everytime I see an "Estate" dealer coin listing with a Florida address on EBay, I move on very quickly.

[cpm9ball]

Not just Florida.......they're everywhere! Kind of reminds me of "The Travelers".

 

Chris

[James_OldeTowne]

I will mention that I made some inquiries, and found that this "company" sells a lot on eBay - you guessed it, "estate sales".

 

James

[HaydenTubbs]

I don't want to argue law but I'm sure that is NOT fraud.

 

This apprasial company probably just lowballs everyone...it's just business. The protection against something like this is to know what you have and ask around to a lot of people for opinions.

 

This is one of my nightmares actually because if I "croak" too soon my family will be left with my coins and I'm sure they would not know what to do with them. I need to get off my fat arse and write up some instructions...I've been lazy about it. I suggest all the members here to the same. You never know...

 

jom

 

It's not fraud;perfectly legal in my opnion but ethicly wrong...

 

and Jom,just send your coins to me for safe-keeping