1807 Capped Bust half, old green PCI holder // Which image is best?

[James_OldeTowne]

This is the common 50/20 variety, but of course popular for the well-known denomination blunder. I removed it from an old, conservative green PCI holder - guess the grade if you'd like!

 

Which image do you like best? I did these in a hurry this morning, so they are not the best, but it's the lighting angle I'm interested in testing. Click the thumbnail to see the large versions.

 

Comments welcome - thanks!

 

 

James

[jtryka]

I like the second one best, and I will guess the grade as VF-30, though it looks like it's been cleaned (shock!).

[rexcat]

Its pretty close between two and three, with three getting nod for me because it shows a little better the surface textures and the bright glare spots, like on liberty’s brow, are smaller.

 

The coin I love, lots of detail showing and I like the toning that it has.

[Hoot]

I think the third pic is prettiest, but the second shows details much better and still has nice saturation.

 

I'd put the coin in the F15-20 range.

 

Hoot

[IGWT]

I prefer the second photo. Photo No. 1 looks too flat (I'm talking relief, not luster), and Photo No. 3 has a tad too much contrast for my liking. It's easy being a critic -- all three of the pictures are nice, especially considering that they were shot in a hurry.

[stman]

Good post. I like the third image best. Shows the contrast and luster nicely.

 

The 1807-1808 first design/sub-type for the Capped Bust halves is my favorite.

The design changed in 1809. With more detail and such.

The 07-08 are very tough to grade as they are known to be very weakly struck.

 

Just a bit of wear can look completely blown out and appear to be in much lower condition than it really is.

 

Actually, many folks (including me) are tempted to down-grade these for detail that

might never have been there to begin with.This is where luster (or lack of) can be king.On the "Other" board I mentioned

a possible thread posting as many of this sub-type as possible by members as a tool to help evaluate these.

Of course images are tough, and some of mine are scans which makes it even tougher.

 

I might have one or two of the 07-08 to contribute if anybody is ever interested in doing such a thread. Or perhaps I'll post some in the future.

[michael]

i love the third image the best it does not overaggerizate the hairlines

 

you take excellent photos by the way james and a really good sexy coin this overdate fraction

[James_OldeTowne]

Then it's official! I will be using the third image as the official one for my website.

 

The answer to the guess-the-grade is VF-35 with a disclaimer of "weak strike" right on the PCI label. I really like these older PCI slabs - usually very accurately graded, with appropriate grade modifiers where appropriate. Some of the most enjoyable coins I've ever owned came from those old slabs.

 

In my opinion, this coin is not cleaned. There are a couple of incidental hairlines, but with all the discussion of cleaned coins and what to look for, something that is often overlooked is that coins pick up incidental hairlines in normal day-to-day circulation. If you imagine dropping a coin into your pocket, it is very possible for it to pick up a hairline as it falls by rubbing against the material of the pocket liner. Or, if a coin is slid across a counter at the local grocery store, it is sure to pick up patchy hairlines on the high points.

 

It's important to note how some original dirt is still embedded into the details on both sides. Also, in hand, it has a good patina (my images look a bit harsh).

 

THANKS for all the great comments! I really enjoy sharing coins like this with everyone. I'll be sharing a few more before too long!

 

James

[TomB]

My favorite image is the one that reflects most accurately what the coin looks like in-hand!

 

As stman has already written, these coins typically get hammered on guess-the-grade threads as this first sub-type (1807-1808) was struck with far less initial definition and detail than later years in the series.

[BankNote1]

The third photo! The piece looks cleaned to me but the old stuff can be lightly cleaned and still get slabbed. I don't like the weak strike though...JMO...

[michael]

in my opinion this coin is not cleaned but original and this is how original usually comes on these coins in this grade range

[James_OldeTowne]

I'm glad Tom reiterated the excellent point about how variable the strike is for these 1807 halves (1808 as well). It just so happens that I also own a well-struck 1807 of the same variety and die-state as the PCI coin.

 

 

Here is where "grading" really gets silly sometimes. Although this is a much better struck coin, it actually has less luster than the PCI coin grading five points lower! And yet, I value it at more than double the PCI coin!

 

Such is the wonder of our early U.S. coins!

 

James

[BankNote1]

I like the last coin a much better piece, IMO! The other coin's weak strike just didn't do it for me.

[stman]

I guess that's enough for now.