someone asked me this question today and please give your opinions

[michael]

is an au58 coin worth the greysheet ms60 bid?? and how does it differ by series??

[Coinbuf]

As always it depends on the coin. Some AU58's can and do grade as high as 63 on any given day. I collect Lincolns and Morgans mostly, with Lincolns no a 60 is almost always worth more than a 58. With Morgans very often a 58 will sell for 62 money.

 

Chris

[IGWT]

Hmmm . . . market grading. Yes, for some busties and seated if the coin is a raw AU58 strictly graded and based solely on condition; in fact, a strict AU58 might be worth a -62 bid. This opinion is limited by the fact that I don't collect these types; it comes from simply looking at some in lower MS grades as ceritified by the TPGs. A little rub doesn't seem to hold these coins back.

 

Tell me, why do some collectors get wigged out by market grading? Sheldon devised his scale, after all, to reflect the relative values of coins in different stages of preservation. If you collect coins based principally on their condition, look first at the coin. If you collect coins based principally on their price, look first at the insert label.

[James_OldeTowne]

For coins that are generic, for example, Mercury dimes, Morgan dollars, or Walking Liberty halves, AU-58 is probably worth 10% - 25% over AU-50. Definitely, AU-58 should be much closer to AU-50 than MS-60. The only exceptions would be where there is an enormous jump between AU-50 and MS-60, because then, the market for sliders is often very healthy. Certain Morgans come to mind, such as 1883-S, or 1896-S.

 

However, for series such as Bust halves, or Two Cent coins, AU-58 will frequently be worth more than MS-60, no matter what the GreySheet says. That is because AU-58 is really MS-63 (attractive) with non-distracting slight wear on the high points, and often, the surface contact that caused the rub results in attractive toning.

 

Early coins are usually a bargain when you can buy an AU-58 for MS-60 bid, which does occasionally happen .

 

Great topic for discussion!

 

James

[HaydenTubbs]

It all depends on the "look" of the coin,I've paid over 60 money for choice AU-58 coins...

[IGWT]

AU-58 is really MS-63

 

Enter another dimension . . . a dimension of the mind . . . a world in which an object is two different things at the same time. Welcome to the numismatic marketplace.

 

[jtryka]

It really depends on the series involved and whether or not the coin in question is a key date. For Saints this is very vividly illustrated. If you look at the common dates, like the 1924 or 1928, most coins below MS-63 are going to sell for a very small premium over melt, which right now is about $450. A raw XF would probably go for maybe $450-475, a slabbed AU-58 might be $500, and that might rise say $25 for each grade up through MS-62. So between a 58 and a 62 there is probably less than $100 difference, which is small in percentage terms, so it is quite likely a nice 58 could garner 60 bid money. This is so much different from base metal coins which rarely sell based on melt, or if they do, melt is so low that if you add just a few dollars you are often doubling that baseline melt value. Now, if you look at a key like the 08-S, the difference between a 58 and a 60 is about $1,000 so it would have to be a heck of a 58 to get that extra premium. Further, if you look at a key date that actually circulated more, like the 25-S, the difference between a 58 and 60 is more like $2,500, so even less chance of getting the 60 bid. The other factor to consider with Saints, particularly better dates is that many times a coin might grade 58 because there is a problem with it, rather than actual circulation wear (i.e. the coin might have been wiped or overdipped), which further detracts it from being a 60. Although many other series do not have the high base of melt as gold series do, I believe the differences between key and common dates will likely continue to hold true.

[TomB]

I've paid in excess of MS63 money for coins that were accurately graded AU58, and I would do it again without hesitation. In general, open collar series have a much greater blending of price from AU58 through MS63 in terms of support while close collar series have a finer, more firmly entrenched line of demarcation for value.

[jtryka]

Tom, pardon my ignorance, but what do you mean by "open collar" or "closed collar" series?

[michael]

open collar are pre 1829 coins closed collar are post 1828 coins

 

 

and i would like to thank everyone on here for their great information

 

this board and the advanced collectors on here are the best!

[rexcat]

However, for series such as Bust halves, or Two Cent coins, AU-58 will frequently be worth more than MS-60, no matter what the GreySheet says. That is because AU-58 is really MS-63 (attractive) with non-distracting slight wear on the high points, and often, the surface contact that caused the rub results in attractive toning.

 

Early coins are usually a bargain when you can buy an AU-58 for MS-60 bid, which does occasionally happen .

 

Great topic for discussion!

 

That’s just what I was thinking James.

 

I have been looking at capped bust halves for a while, needing a nice example for my type set, and have seen some great looking AU58s. Coins with most or all stars fully detailed, good luster and toning, but that slight rub on the high spots, thus an AU coin. These coins have better eye appeal than many MS63s that I’ve seen and can go for money way over MS60 bid depending on the overall appeal of the coin especially pieces with great toning. Better detail than weakly struck MS grades can be found in AU58 slabs and that's what I'm looking for in the one coin for the slot.

 

The MS60 is $455 and the MS63 bid is $1350, 3 times that of the 60, so you could pay twice MS60 bid for a AU58 getting a better looking coin then a MS63 at bid.

 

When I eventually fill that slot in my set it will be either a great looking AU58 or a good looking MS63, all though that could take twice the money.

 

Most MS60 to 62 that I see seem to be the nicked, dull looking uncirculated coins lacking good detail and eye appeal the price that they sell for can reflect this.

[kranky]

For me, if the coin soars in value from AU58 through MS63, then I'll take an attractive AU58 over a 60 or 61 (probably even 62) coin.

 

It's always struck me as a little odd that, though we acknowledge multiple factors make up a grade, wear counts more than all others combined when you are teetering on that circulated vs. uncirculated edge. A coin with great luster, few distracting marks, great eye appeal, etc. but that tiny bit of wear is, by definition, no better than AU58. Not all AU58's fit that description, but many do.

 

An eye-appealing AU58 will be nicer than any MS60 of the same issue, and probably worth more if the value of the unc coins is much higher than AU examples.

 

I think the reason that AU58 coins aren't priced higher than MS60 ones is that not every AU58 coin has everything going for it with the exception of the bit of wear.

[michael]

I think the reason that AU58 coins aren't priced higher than MS60 ones is that not every AU58 coin has everything going for it with the exception of the bit of wear.