Can uncirculated copper tone to a natural sheen? -- COME BACK, MICHAEL

[IGWT]

You'll see a photo below of an Italian 1861M 5 centesimi. The coin is strictly uncirculated (I have the coin in hand) with good red luster underlying the chocolate brown toning. What the photo does not show is a degree of sheen that appears to be part of the patina. There are a few die polish lines but no hairlines; I find no evidence of any wax or similar compound -- just the chocolate sheen.

 

So, being a newcomer to copper, I'm wondering if old copper naturally develops a sheen; or, is it always evidence of a prior cleaning/waxing.

 

[michael]

well yes most of the time evidence of cleaning oiling etc

 

this coin look enhanced to me

 

BUT

 

with any coin especially so copper i need to see the coin in hand sight seen then i can show and tell you if so

[IGWT]

Thanks, Michael. I know it's difficult to tell from the photos that I borrowed from the seller. I just imaged the obverse myself to make it a little easier for you and others who care to share their experience.

 

If the coin has been oiled, is it possible to remove the oil without damage to the coin; and, if so, how without touching the toning/surfaces of the coin. Thanks again.

 

[Hoot]

If the coin has been oiled, is it possible to remove the oil without damage to the coin; and, if so, how without touching the toning/surfaces of the coin. Thanks again.

 

I think the coin looks fine. Looks like it is unc but has not had perfect storage. No sign of wear on the high points. I've seen lots of unc. copper from the 1800s that has developed a nice brown patina subtended by excellent luster. This can look pretty shiny. Have a few piece myself.

 

As for removing oils, just dip it in acetone or xylol and the oil will be gone. Copper, mind you, tends to "dry out" the more pure it is. Many copper collectors will apply oils, such as Coin Care in a thin film to preserve the coin. I do not know of any negative effects, even in the long-term.

 

Hoot

[Oldtrader3]

Any oil would have helped keep the surfaces from developing pores. I don't think that it would hurt the coin. Nice, original uncirculated piece, by the way.

[James_OldeTowne]

This coin does not look altered in any fashion to me. That hint of bluish tint is completely original, and I think it's a sure sign that the coin has not been messed with. Virgin copper will indeed develop that patina, as the surface molecules react with air to create copper compounds that diffract light, and give that oily appearance.

 

James

[cointagious]

This coin does not look altered in any fashion to me. That hint of bluish tint is completely original, and I think it's a sure sign that the coin has not been messed with. [/q]

 

 

I concur.

[James_OldeTowne]

Here's my favorite large-cent, one that is completely original, and it shows a quality of patina similar to your coin:

 

 

James

[IGWT]

I appreciate all the comments. James, it's interesting that you picked up on the bluish tint. Looking at the coin at an angle under a loupe reveals very narrow bands of deep blue toning on the edges of the devices, e.g., the bridge of the nose, and in some of the recesses in the main device, e.g., around the moustache, between the locks of hair, and behind the ear. I really like the appearance of this coin -- even though it's not a large U.S. cent.

 

Thanks everyone.

[Leothelion]

This coin does not look altered in any fashion to me. That hint of bluish tint is completely original, and I think it's a sure sign that the coin has not been messed with. Virgin copper will indeed develop that patina, as the surface molecules react with air to create copper compounds that diffract light, and give that oily appearance.

 

James

 

I have an 1804 half cent (yes folks, I do collect other coins besides Jefferson

nickels) with this sheen finish look. Perhaps it's original afterall. But I am familiar with the Blue Ribbon or Coin Care cleaners.

 

Leo

[Oldtrader3]

Here is a half-cent being shown to illustrate the blue and violet toning that naturally develops on copper coins of this vintage.

 

[IGWT]

I like that half-cent, OT3 (and James's large cent as well). I read your comment on the other thread about the size of images that we post here. I tend to agree (although I posted a very large image here because I wanted some diagnostic advice). I find that images in the range of 300-400 pixels are nice for viewing; but, I think that is larger than you suggest.

[James_OldeTowne]

I have seen copper where someone has applied MS-70, and the coin turned blue, but that's a "different" kind of blue. In that case, it just doesn't look "right", as if the metal itself turned blue. With original copper coins, you can see that the coin is still copper-red, but the bluish color is more like a "glow". It's really tough to explain, but there is a difference between copper that has naturally patinated with the bluish highlights, and those that have been "treated".

 

James

[Oldtrader3]

This half-cent is really a brown coin, with a blue and violet highlighted patina. When you look at this coin in the sunlight you can see the brown under the highlights. Coins that are doctored, don't look like this.

[Hoot]

That's a great looking half cent, Charlie. I've probably looked at 50 1854 half cents (not that many, I know, but still...) and have not found a single one that looked so nice. Most are poorly toned with spots and have been poorly preserved overall. Great piece.

 

Hoot

[James_OldeTowne]

((( I've probably looked at 50 1854 half cents (not that many, I know, but still...) and have not found a single one that looked so nice. Most are poorly toned with spots and have been poorly preserved overall. )))

 

You mean, like this?

 

 

 

James

[IGWT]

You mean, like this?

 

Oh, my goodness . . .

[Hoot]

You mean, like this?

 

Yowsa! Sweet piece James!

 

Hoot

[Oldtrader3]

Thanks Guys. This 1854 half cent resides in a NGC-MS65BN holder and it looks better in person than the image because the scan doesn't render the violet very well.