Standing Liberty quarter variety collectors, take a look

[James_OldeTowne]

As many of you know, there are very few mint errors in the SLQ series. Most of what does is exist is the result of die clashes, reworked dies, or planchet problems. Here is a coin (not available - it's sold) with a really nice clashed die that shows up as a raised line starting beneath the "S" of "E PLURIBUS UNUM", and descending down to the back of the eagle's head. There is also evidence of clashing on the obverse.

 

 

I had wanted to share this coin with the members of the forum for a while, but wanted to avoid "spamming" the boards. But the recent article in Coin World reminded me about posting this coin.

 

Enjoy!

 

James

[cpm9ball]

James, either I'm looking at the wrong thing or I guess I'm just dense. The mark appears to extend into the eagle's wing. How could a die clash impart a mark on an incuse area of the reverse die?

Chris

[Die Varieties]

Very nice James. I agree that is remnants of the die clash. I took the liberty of reworking your pics to help illustrate. I hope you don't mind. These are crude and if someone had a crystal clear black/white contrast photo of an SLQ obverse and reverse, then the overlay would turn out even better visually.

 

The below photo is James reverse with the surrounding background of the coin changed to white to help with contrast. Arrows are pointing to the rather prominent die clash remnants.

 

 

This next photo is where we have taken the obverse and flipped horizontally and inverted. This is what a die clash from the obverse would illustrate on how we would see it on the reverse of the coin.

 

 

Finally -- I have now taken the same flipped horizontally and inverted obverse and made a transparent overlay with the reverse (top photo of James reverse) and we can see the obverse remnants match exactly to the arrows of the remnants of the die clash.

 

 

Chris brings up a good point -- however on the much deeper clashed dies, the remnants sometimes can penetrate the recessed areas of the die. We see this happening on the Lincoln cent with the Memorial bays within Lincoln's neck area. Though that area is also recessed on the die -- the clash penetrated deep enough into that incused area of the working die for the remnants to be visible.

[supertooth]

Very nicely done gentlemen!! Highly educational and very much appreciated. Bob [supertooth]

[rexcat]

Chris brings up a good point -- however on the much deeper clashed dies, the remnants sometimes can penetrate the recessed areas of the die. We see this happening on the Lincoln cent with the Memorial bays within Lincoln's neck area. Though that area is also recessed on the die -- the clash penetrated deep enough into that incused area of the working die for the remnants to be visible.

 

I find it hard to imagine that this tool clashed so hard that a mark was made on the recessed area of the die that in theory should not be able to touch the other die half, yet there are no marks on the reverse, from the highest points on the obverse die around the head of Liberty, around the Quarter Dollar area which is also a high area on the reverse die. I would want to think that if you slammed that tool so hard to mark resesses, there would be damage to the die's high points.

 

Just my two cents worth, but I do find that odd.

[Die Varieties]

Paul B.: I can fully understand what your saying. It's strange on some die clashes where strong remnants are easily visible in one area and then just totally disappear in another near by area. There could be some die polishing or could be where the obverse and reverse die are not exactly level (horizontal) to each other thereby causing a tilt into one area and not the other areas during impact. A lot of variables can factor into the equation. Maybe James can describe in more detail about his quarter.

 

Below is a photo of a 2001 Lincoln cent with die clash remnants that are readily visible within Lincoln's neck of which this area is recessed (incused) on the working die. We also see this happen quite often on the Roosey dimes with clash remnants in the recesses just below his eye and on the nose. Die clashes can make for great study.

 

[BankNote1]

Neat photos! I wish I knew how to do that!!!!

[IGWT]

Great photos, great tutorial, great coins. Thanks.

[SilverDollarMan]

Thats damn nice, Die Varieties. Great pic's

[Die Varieties]

Thanks for the kind words.

 

Any of you can do this. The making of transparent overlays and superimposing over image(s), making a mirror-image, inverting and so on can be accomplished in most if not all types of photo programs. It just takes a little practice and any of you can experiment and practice. If anybody is wondering -- the photo program I use is PhotoShop. If you need any help to get started just PM me.

 

As far as the above 2001 Lincoln cent photo. Yep -- that is a photo. I take photos the old-fashioned way -- with an SLR camera and good ole film. Most today take photos with a digital camera and have instant pics. Mine I must take to the photo shop and have the film processed. I tried a while back to take digital pics -- but the extreme detail and quality (such as the detail you can see in the 2001 Lincoln cent photo) is not quite the same with digital and so I stayed with film photography. Besides -- it falls under the old category of, "If it's not broken -- don't try to fix it."

[AlixTCat]

Excellent SLR photos. I am also thinking of going back to my SLR instead of digital. The digital somehow lacks something the SLR has. I have gotten some great photos of the family and landscapes with the digital, but when it comes to macro photograpy, nothing beats my macro lens and extension tube. Alas, I have to wait for them to be developed adn I have to then scan the images into my computer to work with them. It IS a dilemma.

 

At any rate, thanks to all for the lessons and images.

 

Jonathan

[midijab-migration]

Excellent technical tutorial!

[rexcat]

Die clashes can make for great study.

 

That's for sure!

 

After reading your comments and looking at the really sharp cent clash you posted it got me thinking of some of the “tooling transformations” to dies that I seen when set-ups go bad on the press floor and high tonnage is involved.

 

So I thought I show a couple of pierce punches, (they don’t have anything to do with coin production, but just an odd story), that were set-up in the wrong position in a stamping die that could make the stamped part with varying hole patterns, there was no receiving hole in the die block due to the mistake. When the press made its first test, and only cycle, it became clear some was wrong.

 

What is strange about these two punches is that they didn’t shatter, the material that they are made of is the same as you find good drill bits made of, high speed tool steel, (M-2). Tool steel usually cracks, shatters, or explodes with chucks a fly in when a die crashes. I tested the punches for hardness after they were removed thinking maybe they weren’t heat treated, but they were and that just really amazed me that as hard as that steel is, it acted like a soft material under the tonnage and straight downward pressure.

 

Your explanations and photos are outstanding; you’ve got me more interested in die errors then I’ve ever been with the information you have shared here at the boards.

 

Thanks

 

[James_OldeTowne]

"Thanks" to everyone for making this a great thread! This is exactly why I value the NGC board.

 

James

[cpm9ball]

"Thanks" to everyone for making this a great thread! This is exactly why I value the NGC board.

 

James

 

I'll drink to that! Many thanks to all!

 

B I L L Y P I C S

 

Chris