Where are my dentils? 1856 Half Dime

[rexcat]

This half dime is the latest addition to my type set; it came in the mail on Friday. What I didn’t notices in the photos when I purchased it is that most of the dentils are not there, I was caught up in the good detail of the devices, like how well the stars struck up and the golden toning to the coin. When looking at this coin in hand I could easily that something odd happened when this coin was in the die being struck.

 

I don’t have much knowledge in what causes most problems when coins are struck, but being a tool and die maker these things do interest me a lot and I would like to learn more.

 

Please take a look at these photos and reply with any thoughts you may have as to how this half dime did not get the dentils struck up, while the rest of the coin is well struck. Also there are some very light die clash marks on the reverse around the “E” in dime that show up lightly on the photo.

 

Also, as long as you are looking, take a stab at what grade NGC assigned to this half dime.

 

[toyonakataro]

All I can say is weak dentils are common for this date, but I don't know why.

As for the grade, my guess is 63.

[Die Varieties]

Paul:

 

Your 1856 Half Dime is certainly a most interesting and perplexing coin. I'm going to take a stab at your question "where are my dentils?" To help illustrate, I hope you don't mind, but I took your photos and made the background white for contrast and utilized some arrows to point out some interesting things going on with your coin. There are some tell-tell signs going on that may help us in finding some possible answers. I would like to encourage all to chime in and present their thoughts and experiences as well. This is what a board is all about with members sharing combined experiences and knowledge.

 

First photo: Below is your photo of the obverse. Only thing here is the background is changed to white and shows up the normal, correct orientation of the obverse.

 

 

Second photo: Below is your photo of the reverse with again the background changed to white for clarity. I have added arrows to two different areas. These two different areas on the reverse are very crucial and help to provide some interesting clues. First we have arrows pointing to what you mentioned about die clash mark remnants on the reverse. Second, I have put two arrows pointing to the letter ""A" of STATES. As we look at all the lettering of USOA, we can see that single letter "A" of STATES is extremely weak and flat. But all the other lettering is well struck-up and rounded. There's a reason for this and I will explain in my summation.

 

 

Third photo: Below is where I have taken your obverse photo and flipped horizontally and inverted to illustrate what we would see for die clash to the reverse working die. However -- I had to do one more thing and this is another important clue. I also had to rotate the obverse around 15 degrees clockwise. The reason for rotating the obverse will be evident in the next photo. Additionally -- I placed two arrows pointing to the suspected area that would be the die clash remnants on the reverse of your coin.

 

 

Fourth photo: Here I have made a transparent overlay of the obverse photo that is flipped horizontally, inverted, and rotated 15 degrees clockwise. We can now see the die clash remnants match exactly to the two arrows on the reverse of your coin. For the die clash to match exactly -- it required that I rotate the obverse slightly.

 

 

Summary: Paul, I need to ask you a question. Is your 1856 Half Dime not exactly correct coin alignment? It appears to me there is some slight rotation between the obverse and reverse working die. As we could see in the bottom (fourth photo), for the die clash remnants on the reverse to match exactly, we had to rotate the obverse a little. Of course -- it could be the reverse die is the one rotated, we don't know for sure, but to get the die clash remnants to match exactly, one of them needed to be rotated slightly.

 

The letter "A" of STATES is a clue that a clogged, filled die is happening here on your coin. With all the other lettering struck-up and that one letter very flat is a primary indicator of some type of grease or some other material along are near the periphery of the dies. Since there is also some possible rotation and tilt between the two dies in relationship to each other -- this also most likely played a part in the mystery of your coin. My guess is upon striking of the coin the tonnage pressure squeezed the foreign material (grease/dirt?) along the periphery preventing the striking-up of the dentils. This at the same time created the well struck-up other design elements more towards the center of the coin since the metal must flow somewhere. It filled the cavities (recessed areas) much more and created the well struck areas.

 

Overall -- I tend to think there is a combination of these factors that has caused the lack of dentils being struck-up on your coin. I'm not saying this is the definitive answer(s) but is what I'm coming up with on your coin. I encourage other board members to chime in and present their thoughts on what I have presented or other possible causes.

 

The floor is open ....

[Hoot]

Billy - Yours is an excellent analysis of the coin. One other possibility that may lead to weaker rims and dentils is an underweight planchet. Tolerance at the Mint was for +/- 2.5% of the wieght in those days. An underweight planchet often led to weakness in the periphery, as well as in the device high points.

 

Hoot

[rexcat]

Is your 1856 Half Dime not exactly correct coin alignment?

 

Billy,

 

You are absolutely correct about the die rotation; your transparent overlay is aligned exactly as the coin. Fantastic piece of Photoshop work, this really makes it clear and easy to see what die elements are leaving marks on the opposing die. The clash mark that is on the obverse between Liberty’s head and her hand I thought was made by some part of the wreath’s ribbon, now you can clearly the knot of the ribbon by looking back and between the third and fourth photos.

 

Another interesting aspect this coin is the reverse rim, hard to tell in my photo, (so I took the one below), is how thin, high, and sharp the rim is. Highlighted by the arrow is one of several places around the rim that have dug into the slabs insert.

 

Thanks, your expertise is greatly appreciated.

 

 

[IGWT]

Another enjoyable post . Wonderful work with the clash and deducing the die rotation. If grease (or similar contaminant) caused the weak/unraised denticles, that must have been one dirty die. Hoot has a good observation. Thanks.

[Die Varieties]

"You are absolutely correct about the die rotation; your transparent overlay is aligned exactly as the coin. The clash mark that is on the obverse between Liberty's head and her hand I thought was made by some part of the wreath's ribbon, now you can clearly the knot of the ribbon by looking back and between the third and fourth photos."

 

Additionally, I also believe, if I'm not mistaken, that on the obverse of your photo you can see the clash remnants of the flipped and inverted letter "E" of DIME south of her left arm and just protruding outward into the field. The below photo is the normal orientated obverse with arrows pointing to the flipped and inverted "E" of DIME.

 

 

Here is the reverse flipped, inverted and again rotated with arrows pointing to the letter "E" of DIME.

 

 

Finally, superimposing the reverse transparency over the obverse we can see the flipped, inverted and slighty rotated letter "E" matching perfectly.

 

 

Hoot also brings up an excellent point about possible underweight of the planchet or might could have been an improperly tapered planchet. These could have been a factor in what's happening on your coin as well.

[Mozin]

Very informative thread.

[midijab-migration]

Die Varieties-

 

You da man! You've taught me a few things on how to properly look at and unlock the story of what's happening the instant a coin is struck. I now have to go back through my whole collection and take a proper look at my coins. Thank you for your wisdom!

[EZ_E]

D.V.,

 

Man, I think I love you.

 

Seriously, you are well educated and your posts make a man think and to appreciate some of the more esoteric sides of things.

 

Well done!

[michael]

superb half dime and thread/post

[toyonakataro]

Here's the link to another 1856, MS66 in PCGS holder whitch is going to be auctioned by Heritage next month. It also shows weak dentils.

[toyonakataro]

By the way, Die Varieties, good job! It's very educational to me.

[RGT]

In his book on seated half dimes, Al Blythe states "Weak dentils are the rule rather than the exception" for this date. I can't believe that dirt or grease caused this on the whole production run. It also seems unlikely that all the planchets that year were too thin. Unfortunately Blythe doesn't offer an explanation either.

 

It's not just the 1856. If you take a look at the 1857 in my registry set you can see that it has similar characteristics.

 

NGC apparently doesn't let me link the image straight from my registry set or I would add it in here.

[Die Varieties]

In his book on seated half dimes, Al Blythe states "Weak dentils are the rule rather than the exception" for this date. I can't believe that dirt or grease caused this on the whole production run. It also seems unlikely that all the planchets that year were too thin. Unfortunately Blythe doesn't offer an explanation either.

 

It's not just the 1856. If you take a look at the 1857 in my registry set you can see that it has similar characteristics.

 

NGC apparently doesn't let me link the image straight from my registry set or I would add it in here.

 

RGT: Thanks for that information.

 

Well rexcat: I'm sorry -- guess were back to square-one. Sure wish Blythe would have offered an explanation. The only thing I can come up with is that if this weak dentils is prevalent on most of the 1856 then it must be somewhere in the die making and/or hubbing process.

[RGT]

I just took a look at the 1856 in toyonakataro's registry set (very nice collection, BTW) and it has very strong dentils for this date, but still shows some weakness.

 

I just checked Valentine on this date and his simple statement is "A peculiarity of the coins of this date is that the denticulations of the milling are not well struck up". Again, with no explanation.

 

Both of these books come up short of a definitive guide for the series. I'm hoping for a new book on the order of the L&M book on Federal Half Dimes for this series some day.