Any chance underappreciated series will get any notice any time in our lifetime?

[Prethen]

Okay, so I have personal preference to see 2¢ and 3CS/3CN series get some serious notice. Any chance of this happening....sometime before the next meteor strike on our planet? The prices in these sectors have remain essentially stagnant for several years if not longer. Yeah, minute increases to large increases occur for registry and high-end stuff, but the overall series statistics basically look flat. What's mind-blowing is that there must be very little demand because there's relatively low supply for any given year (beyond the highest mintage years). The tiniest shift in the collecting winds could change the landscape.

[TomB]

If the US Mint decided to make a killing selling commemorative two and three cent coins then I believe that these series would take off substantially. Right now, they are ignored by most folks because they are unknown.

[jtryka]

Despite your complaint (and I do agree), the 2-cent series has moved over the last 6 months or so. I have a complete circulated set in a Dansco Album along with my incomplete set of 3cn, but I read an article a few months back noting the substantial price move for the 1872 even in lower grades. I must admit I was surprised, but it does show there is still hope.

[James_OldeTowne]

Bruce,

 

Actually, I do not think the supply for these coins is low, despite the miniscule mintages for some issues. The reason is that neither series suffered much from attrition. Neither series was ever melted for intrinsic metal content, and being a very durable metal, the three-cent nickels just didn't wear out. So unlike, say bust quarters, a large percentage of the original issues have remained in existence in the past 150 years!

 

Neither series is likely to show a huge price jump for individual issues, but as a part-time dealer, I can say with some confidence that a complete set of either issue is worth more, maybe substantially more, than the total of the individual coin prices.

 

James

[Prethen]

James, I don't agree with your attrition assumption. I recall reading various "evidence" pointing to redemptions of 2-cent coinage in the early 1870's. This should be extremely evident with the lack of a decent quantity of quality 1872 2-cent coins given the relatively high mintages. My empirical data due to my own extensive searches showed that quality material after 1868 is extremely difficult to find where 1866-1868 could be at least a little bit challenging. I don't agree that there's a surplus of this material out there, I just don't see it. Maybe there's a ton in "strong hands" but that would still lead to a fairly dried up supply. Decent coins of almost any of the years (after 1865) are a bit challenging due to numerous planchet problems and extreme susceptibility to wear.

 

Also, both 3CS and 3CN had attrition rates, especially 3CS. After the 3CS became 90% silver, they were hoarded, melted, and sent overseas for their metal content (I sort of doubt that there's this major hoard awaiting us of 3CS in Southeast Asia). Many of the conditions of the surviving coins are attrocious and they've been notoriously mishandled. And fuggedabout finding post 1862 3CS business strikes.

 

The 3CN series probably has quite a bit of supply but only for 1873 and prior (and 1881). In 1889, the Mint needed nickel for Liberty nickel production and melted off a large amount (I forget the numbers, but I think it's well over a million or millions), especially (at least according to Breen, which might be totally wrong) this affected the 1888 and 1889 mintages. For some reason, I think the 1888 mintage was affected more than the 1889 mintage because it's fairly "easy" to find 1889 coins out there even though only about 18,000 were minted! The meltage probably hit the 1874-1888 business (and some proof?) strikes pretty hard. Again, finding quality in these dates starts at interesting goes to challenging and then goes to virtually impossible (can you show me a circulated 1884 or 1885 3CN?).

 

I agree that if these are only collected by type, as they are by the vast majority of collectors who even know these exist, then the 1864-1865 2-cent, 1852-1853 3CS, and 1865-1867 3CN will largely fit the bill for these collectors while the rest of the series' will languish in obscurity. And, yes, I noticed the same thing about the 1872 2-cent. That's about the only bright spot out there. The rest of the circulating coinage has virtually come to a complete standstill. I wonder if it's even able to compete with inflation?

[EZ_E]

Presently, the majority of demand is from type collectors but, as a whole, all three series are rarely collected as a set.

 

Nice, appealing proof examples, especially for the copper two-cent piece are extremely elusive. Any example designated as RED rarely actually is but, yet, it still commands a very substantial premium. Most all two-cent copper coins in proof have very poor eye-appeal. So, if a nice example can be found, it can always draw a premium from type collectors with an eye for quality.

 

My 1865 example (PR 66 RB) had an original mintage of but 600 but only 300 have survived and only a very small fraction over PR 65. In additional, it is a Civil War date but it commands no premium over most all other dates except for the 1864 and the proof only date. It is true that this series is very under appreciated as well as the 3CS and 3CN.

[IGWT]

The shield 5c is treated like the black sheep of U.S. coinage. It will be welcomed back into the flock . . . someday . . . maybe.

[EZ_E]

The shield 5c is treated like the black sheep of U.S. coinage. It will be welcomed back into the flock . . . someday . . . maybe.

 

But, my understanding is that all mint state examples at the ANA show were snatched up almost immediately since they are so undervalued. Doubt if there were too many 1880 MS examples available, however. Get it? Numismatic humor. Oh boy, looks like I'm turning into a geek.

 

 

[IGWT]

You're going to have to explain the joke to me The 1880 is a huge exception to the rule: the MS64 went for $25,300 against a greysheet ask of $11,000, and the MS65 went for $57,500 against a greysheet ask of $33,000. Definitely an investor coin -- where in the heck did those two coins end up?

[midwest]

The shield 5c is treated like the black sheep of U.S. coinage. It will be welcomed back into the flock . . . someday . . . maybe.

 

But, my understanding is that all mint state examples at the ANA show were snatched up almost immediately since they are so undervalued. Doubt if there were too many 1880 MS examples available, however. Get it? Numismatic humor. Oh boy, looks like I'm turning into a geek.

 

 

 

 

WHAT?

 

also Victor you need to take a look at the EBAY unopened CC morgan thread. You owe me a Starbucks Mocha Frappucino and almost cost me a keyboard

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Oldtrader3]

The 90% 3CS coins were recalled and melted in quantity during 1874. During the time that I collected them, the Type 3 coins in MS63 or above were really tough finds.

[James_OldeTowne]

I should note that my "attrition" statement was not intended to apply to three-cent silvers.

 

I did not mean to imply that no attrition took place, of course, but rather that in comparison to coins with high intrinsic value (silver and gold), copper-nickel coins are relatively less affected by attrition.

 

Personally, I think the most underrated series are, starting with the least appreciated, and in order:

 

Shield nickels

Three cent nickels

Three cent silvers

Two cents

Kennedy halves (surprised?)

 

In years past, Barber series would have appeared on the list, but they have kicked up a lot in the past fifteen years or so. Jefferson nickels would have appeared here as well, but I think there are rumblings of that series slowing moving forward.

 

What would your list look like?

 

James

[Prethen]

My list is almost dead-on similar with yours. Believe it or else, I might actually add on Roosie's onto the end (and likely not include Kennedy's...I really don't care for that series and there's too much high quality supply), but it's a series I don't care for at all. The only circumstantial evidence I have for the Roosie underappreciation is the lack of serious price inflaction for the 1996W.

 

It's kind of funny that you put Shield Nickels up there. If I were to start another series, I might do that one. Now THAT is a series that virtually no one cares about and is totally in the doldrums (except for the keys).

[EZ_E]

You're going to have to explain the joke to me The 1880 is a huge exception to the rule: the MS64 went for $25,300 against a greysheet ask of $11,000, and the MS65 went for $57,500 against a greysheet ask of $33,000. Definitely an investor coin -- where in the heck did those two coins end up?

 

That's my point.

[michael]

for me

 

collectors are coming into the market and as they mature they move backwards in time barbers now and the earlier odd demonination series later

 

everything takes time

 

also three cent pieces and two cent pieces a huge percentage of them are just plain fugly lacking in the eye appeal dept

 

you need supply for demand but most importanyly you need marketing

 

this all will come to pass in the up and coming years as these new collectors enter the marketplace and reaLIZE the hunt value and classic historical significance of these forgotten coins

 

aLSO more standard reference books that are more mainstream and an easy read are needed and necessary

 

and these coins are availible with good to great eye appeal if you are willing to look for them and even if not for a complete date set there are other combos of sets to complete

 

one by decade, first and last year, civil war years with the three cent silvers the three types

 

or by mintmark and finally any combo you want to or just the rarer dates of the set proof only dates etc.

 

the future is bright but everything takes time for collectors to discover and apprecaite

 

like fine wine it does not age and mature and become great overnight

 

everything in time

 

but bottom line any great odd demonination and/or forgotten 19th century coinage that is truly scarce with great eye appeal and extraspecial extraordinary qualities has increased abet quietly in price and are still great values and still easily saleable as such in this current market

[michael]

[michael]

[michael]

[Prethen]

I'm toying with the idea of taking some of the information I noted above in this thread and making it into the core of an article submission to one of the coin magazines. If I were to do that, what would you folks suggest I do to add to the breadth and or depth of the article? The only constraint is this, I will concentrate in 2-cent and 3-cent pieces.

[jtryka]

You might want to check, as I recall seeing some articles in Coin World and their coin price magazine insert over the last 6 months or so on 2-cent pieces. One that I clearly recall was a short article on the diagnostics for a genuine 1872. I would check them out so you don't repeat anything done recently. Taking the ignored/underappreciated series angle would be a very good way to approach the topic in my opinion. Good luck!

[EZ_E]

I still do not understand the hype concerning the proof only 1872 Proof only two-cent piece. There are many other better date proofs with lower mintages/attrition but are categorized with other generic proofs in the series. Yet, proof only issues of the 3CN such as the 1886 get no special recognition at all.

 

'Tis a numismatic mystery to me.

[Prethen]

You mean the proof only 1873 2¢ piece. And, I agree with you. Items like the 1873 proof only 3CS sell for ridiculous money and most of them survive, yet the 1886 3CN proof only is relatively cheap and unnoticed.

[Oldtrader3]

One of Michael's remarks got me thinking. David Lawrence and others have been writing for years about how "commonly available" the Barber coins are, despite their low populations. This is nonsense. These actual pops are'nt very high to begin with. Plus, these pop numbers are probably inflated by at least 1/3 by now. Pick a branch mint Barber of most any later date (except '16-D) and try and find a nice MS63/64 coin.

[JIM F.]

I think the $3 Gold pieces are even more underappreciated!

[michael]

 

it should be law that anyone who wantsto collect gold coins needs at least one three

[Leothelion]

Any chance an underappreciated series will get any notice any time in our lifet

 

Yeah, it's Jefferson nickels! You see, the US Mint is coming out with this new reverse in 2006 and there will be steps on there to collect! Oh gee, I sure hope it catches on! Man, I am so excited! Look out honey, I think tonight is the night!

 

Leo

[Morgannut]

With what MadMarty etal. get for Kennedys, I'm baffled why they're on the list-guess it's a funny--

[cladking]

With what MadMarty etal. get for Kennedys, I'm baffled why they're on the list-guess it's a funny--

 

 

If you add up the total premium for all the Kennedys in existence it will be a small fraction of the amount of almost any of the classics. MadMarty may get a lot for one of these but there are only a few hundred of each date that will get much premium.

 

One could buy virtually every slabbed clad Roosy dime with the proceeds from a single 19th century monster.

[Prethen]

With what MadMarty etal. get for Kennedys, I'm baffled why they're on the list-guess it's a funny--

 

If you add up the total premium for all the Kennedys in existence it will be a small fraction of the amount of almost any of the classics. MadMarty may get a lot for one of these but there are only a few hundred of each date that will get much premium.

 

One could buy virtually every slabbed clad Roosy dime with the proceeds from a single 19th century monster.

Are you trying to say that Kennedy's and Roosies are a better value? Sorry, I'm not sure what you're inferring here. I was inferring for standard collector grades, not moon money type material. Any coin, once it hits POP 1 or 2 will get moon money; it doesn't matter what series it is or if it's just good ol' American Eagle bullion stuff.

[cladking]

With what MadMarty etal. get for Kennedys, I'm baffled why they're on the list-guess it's a funny--

 

If you add up the total premium for all the Kennedys in existence it will be a small fraction of the amount of almost any of the classics. MadMarty may get a lot for one of these but there are only a few hundred of each date that will get much premium.

 

One could buy virtually every slabbed clad Roosy dime with the proceeds from a single 19th century monster.

Are you trying to say that Kennedy's and Roosies are a better value? Sorry, I'm not sure what you're inferring here. I was inferring for standard collector grades, not moon money type material. Any coin, once it hits POP 1 or 2 will get moon money; it doesn't matter what series it is or if it's just good ol' American Eagle bullion stuff.

 

No. Collector grades tend to be choice and gem. Most of these are not worth the cost of slabbing in the current market. In fact only the the best twenty or thirty clad Roosevelts of each date is usually worth the cost of slabbing. If you add up the total value of all these coins, it simply is not a lot of money. This doesn't necessarily make them a good value but it certainly means they are cheap.

 

Personally I feel they are a superb value but this was not my point. I believe they are a good value not because they are cheap but because they are cheap only because of a lack of demand and I don't expect this situation to persist.