Cherrypickers.....how many over here have gotten Hosed?

[goose3]

I know that some of you here do not go across the street. I started a thread over there to get an idea on how many people have been taken for 35.00 for the "alleged" cherrypickers book that was to come out approximately 2 years ago.

 

I paid back in June of 2003.

 

I think this has crossed the point of utterly ridiculous and personally I can think of absolutely NO excuse that all monies have not been refunded in full.

 

Does anyone think that Coinworld or Num. News would do a story on this? If so, I'd be happy to contact one or both of them.

 

Since posting that thread I have heard rumors that the book was never going to exist.

 

At this point, I'd sure like to have my 35.50 back.

 

Some of you might not agree with me and that is fine but look at it this way.....what if it was some ebay seller that did this to a bunch of us??

[ldhair]

I'm wondering if anyone here helped proof any part of Vol-2 or the spreadsheet of rarity and values?

 

It seems really strange that no one has any information about the book. Why are those that know the real story not talking?

[gmarguli]

What I find absolutely unbelievable is that they are still taking orders for the book on the CherryPickers website. To me, that is fraud. I don't care what health problems JT is having as it is long past the point of where he should have turned this over to someone else to get it completed.

 

I doubt Coin World of Numismatic News would do a story on this. JT is quoted too often in those mags for them to do a bad story about him.

 

Supposedly you can get a refund if you pre-paid by contacting him.

[goose3]

Supposedly you can get a refund if you pre-paid by contacting him.

 

 

 

Really though, I emailed him that thread the minute I started it and stated boldly in the Subject line that I wanted a refund.

 

Larry emailed him a week or 2 prior to that and has yet to hear anything.

 

 

I have also emailed that thread and JT's original thread from over there touting the book and presale to Beth Deishler at Coinworld and am waiting to see if she says anything at all.

 

 

Whether anyone ultimately prints anything negative about him or not.......his credibility is shot.

 

 

I will wait until this weekend and then I am going to fill this out and submit it.

[IGWT]

Some of you might not agree with me and that is fine but look at it this way.....what if it was some ebay seller that did this to a bunch of us??

 

JT Stanton, of course, isn't just "some ebay seller." He's a respected member of the numismatic community who earned his reputation over many years as an honest, knowledgeable, and generous person. His reputation -- along with his history of health issues -- calls more for compassion than condemnation. I fully understand that the long delay in publication has caused a deep sense of disappointment. I'm sorry to see that we've reached the point where that disappointment has turned to anger and accusations of fraud.

 

I pre-paid for Vol. II of the CPG in February of this year, so the wait hasn't been as long for me as for many others. I have know idea where Bill Fivaz stands in all this; and I have no idea why the authors can't provide the simple courtesy of an update on the CPG website. Still, I continue in faith that the volume will be published as soon as possible under whatever circumstances JT is facing. And, if I'm wrong, I'll probably continue to believe that he acted with the best of intentions.

[goose3]

you are right IGWT...he's not just some ebay seller. He's someone that you would never expect this sort of thing to happen with.

 

We are not surprised and in fact sometimes we probably EXPECT ebay sellers to do this kind of stuff to us.

 

if you read the thread across the street, someone in there states that Bill Fivaz has made it clear that he is in no way affiliated with this ghost book.

 

By the way......I received a response from one of the coin mags and they stated that they are watching the thread and are looking into the matter.

[gmarguli]

JT Stanton, of course, isn't just "some ebay seller." He's a respected member of the numismatic community who earned his reputation over many years as an honest, knowledgeable, and generous person. His reputation -- along with his history of health issues -- calls more for compassion than condemnation.

 

True. And he has been given LOTS of compassion over the past few years and LOTS of people have looked the other way. When something isn't right with something he is involved in, he deserves the benefit of the doubt. However, at some point you have to look past his standing and place blame where it belongs.

 

Several times I have heard that the book is done and is going to the printer or it is at the printer. Based on how long ago and how many times I heard that, I believe that to be an outright lie. It's like saying the check is in the mail.

 

The fact that you can still order the book off cherrypickers.com and the same site says the book "will go to press in late January for mailing in February [2005]" and it is now almost August is awful. Throw him in jail. Let him devote all his time to getting the book done while in jail instead of commenting in the press on every minor variety that pops up.

 

BTW, when that was put on his web site, I made the comment here that I bet the book wouldn't be released this year. My guess is looking pretty good right about now.

[IGWT]

[A]at some point you have to look past his standing and place blame where it belongs. . . . Throw him in jail.

 

Greg --

 

As I said, I'm saddened by the fact that some folks have reached the point where their disappointment has turned to anger and accusations of fraud. I haven't reached that point; but, obviously, your patience is spent. In this case, I prefer to err on the side of being too trusting.

[gmarguli]

[A]at some point you have to look past his standing and place blame where it belongs. . . . Throw him in jail.

 

Greg --

 

As I said, I'm saddened by the fact that some folks have reached the point where their disappointment has turned to anger and accusations of fraud. I haven't reached that point; but, obviously, your patience is spent. In this case, I prefer to err on the side of being too trusting.

 

Just for the record, I did not pre-order the book, so I am not out any money.

 

The MAIN reason why I say it is at the point of fraud is that the book has been "going to the printers" several times already. Seems rather odd that a book that is so close to being done that it is going to the printers next (insert multiple short time period) keeps failing to be delivered. Yet, he keeps offering it for sale.

[goose3]

about the last thing I can recall was some sort of alleged problem with the binder or rings.

 

I'm only out 35.50 but if you add up all of the people that are "out", how many thousands do you think it is?

 

is that Right?

 

 

Is it fair much less HONEST to continue to sell them?

 

 

Sorry IGWT, but I just don't take too kindly to being hosed no matter if it's 3.50 or 3,500.

[gmarguli]

I'm only out 35.50 but if you add up all of the people that are "out", how many thousands do you think it is?

 

He mentioned he expected 5,000-7,000 direct purchases of the book. That's $150,000-$210,000.

[goose3]

here is a cut/paste of JT's very own thread that he started on the cut/pasted date.....

 

Thursday July 03, 2003 3:56 PM

 

 

 

Greetings,

 

This note offers information for pre-publication discounts of The Cherrypickers' Guide, Fourth Edition, Volume Two. We would hope this will be of interest to you, as those orders we receive first will be mailed first, and before any other orders are mailed or shipped.

 

First and foremost, if you receive this notice more than once, please forgive the duplication. I am trying very hard to combine all of my mailing list files, of which there are several. There are very few duplications, but I am sure some exist. If you do get this more than once, the duplication will soon be corrected. In addition, if you want to be removed from this list all together, simply reply and type "remove" in the subject line. I do have several lists, but I will do my best to search each list to honor your request. Please understand that due to some time restraints that it may take up to 30 days to completely process this request. All e-mail addresses I have come from customers, eBay purchases, and/or inquiries or notes directed to me.

 

This is just a quick note to make you aware that I am just now offering pre-publication purchases of , Fourth Edition, Volume Two. By ordering early you have two advantages. First, depending upon when payment is received, you will save 20% or 10% off the regular price. However, more importantly for most collectors, all our retail orders will be mailed in the order in which we received payment, and BEFORE any wholesale or distributor orders are processed. Therefore, those orders received and paid for first will be shipped first. Additionally, to re- emphasize, all of our retail orders for our customers will be shipped before any dealer, wholesale or distributor orders.

 

I expect to receive as many as 5000-7000 orders (possibly more) for direct purchases. Since my staff and I are limited by the number of books we can ship per day, it would seem natural that collectors would like to be one of the earliest to receive their copy. I will add temporary staff as needed and as manageable to get as many books as possible mailed each day.

 

Only orders purchased from J. T. Stanton at the official Cherrypickers' Guide web site (or as a result of a visit to that site) will come numbered and autographed, and will offer the pre-publication discount. If you have a copy of Volume One that is numbered, please note that number on your order form. We intend to ensure that both volumes will have the same book number.

 

**********In an attempt to add some excitement to the ordering process, I will give a free copy to every 100th order. That free copy will be the version that the person ordered. If they ordered a spiral copy, that will be their free copy. If they ordered a hard bound copy, that will be their free copy. Since those ordering will be paying in advance, I will refund, totally, the payment they sent if they are one of the winners. The winner will not have to pay P & H. The entire cost will be free. The invoices for will be an entirely different sequence. All orders for will be in the 40,000 range. This offer will be back-dated to the beginning of the ordering process.

 

Again, orders for distributors and dealers will be shipped after all of our retail orders are complete. At this time I do not know what the discount schedules may be. A lot depends upon our final publication costs. I feel it is only fair that our loyal, retail customers receive their copy before anyone else. I fully intend to honor their loyalty. Contributors will again be treated and appreciated as they have in the past.

 

**********For complete information, and for direct ordering information via the Internet, visit the official Cherrypickers' Guide web site at www.cherrypickersguide.com. There is one important change from the web site: I was later than I had planned when we posted the information on the site. Therefore, I think the 20% discount is currently shown as being available toward orders placed by June 30th. However, that discount of 20% will be extended to July 20, at 11:59 PM. The deadline for a 10% discount will be extended from July 28 to August 13 at 11:59 PM. That again is when the orders must be received.

 

There is one more thing that would help me personally, a lot. If any of you would take the time to share this note with any of your coin collecting friends, it would be greatly appreciated. The more pre-publication orders I receive, the more accurate estimate I can make for an initial printing. In addition, the additional income would help to produce and expand the web site, which will contain a lot of information for the variety collector.

 

Finally, if you have any other questions, concerning anything of which I might be of help, please contact me at jtstanton@aol.com. This note especially concerns orders for hardbound copies of Cherrypickers' Guide, Fourth Edition, Volume One. Additional copies of that edition will be available about August 1. Please do not reply to the address from which this note originates, but use jtstanton@aol.com instead. I DO NOT CHECK NUMIS70@BELLSOUTH.NET for incoming mail. Again, please reply to jtstanton@aol.com.

 

Thanks to all for your continued support.

 

Best wishes,

 

JT

 

PS - Please feel free to share this note with friends. I would appreciate it!

 

PPS - Please remember to indicate your previous book number, provided you have a numbered copy.

[Die Varieties]

I am an author and I did all the work on my reference that is over 500 pages. All the photos, the layout in PageMaker, proofing, sending to the printers, binding, shipping and paying for it all by myself. I'm not a famous J.T. or Bill Fivaz, but I love the hobby and wanted to contribute something back for collectors. My book was done on time as promised and I delivered my book to all who paid.

 

So -- I have a right to say I understand the work, the time involved and the problems associated with publishing. However, I can not excuse this for over 2 years who have pre-paid in good faith. I have read too many times the book is going to the printers. Sickness or not -- I find this inexcusable after over 2 years now.

[IGWT]

I don't know that I have anything more to add to what I've already said. I'm not condoning fraudulent conduct; I dislike swindlers as much as the next person. But I also dislike assuming the worst of a person who has earned our respect. I will assume the best -- because that's what JT deserves -- until I'm proven wrong.

 

And, if I'm wrong -- if it turns out that I and thousands of others have been swindled -- it will be a very, very sad day for me. Perhaps you can leave enough room for JT to redeem himself if it turns out that there are exonerating facts unknown to us at this time.

 

Edited to add:

 

here is a cut/paste of JT's very own thread that he started on the cut/pasted date..... Thursday July 03, 2003 3:56 PM

 

Hi goose3 --

 

Where did you find this message from JT? I haven't seen anything posted on the CPG website since the update at the beginning of this year.

 

Second edit: Nevermind -- I misread the date "2003" as "2005."

[goose3]

it was a thread he started on PCGS over 2 years ago.

 

it's on the first page over there.

[IGWT]

it was a thread he started on PCGS over 2 years ago

 

Thanks. See the edit to my previous post.

[ldhair]

Perhaps you can leave enough room for JT to redeem himself if it turns out that there are exonerating facts unknown to us at this time.

 

One of the problems is that we don't have the facts and those that do are not talking. I wonder why?

 

I have been one of the first to stand up for JT for quite some time. Now I must ask myself why. It's time for answers.

[BankNote1]

You would think J.T. would respond or he would have someone respond for him if he is unable??? I do know what it is to have a unending medical problem. I have troubles getting just daily things done. There are things I have planned to do for several years now and I just can't get them done. Although I haven't taken thousands of dollars from people. Regardless of who he is he owes the collectors who have pre-paid for the new "CPG" an explanation...

[cpm9ball]

Some of you might not agree with me and that is fine but look at it this way.....what if it was some ebay seller that did this to a bunch of us??

 

JT Stanton, of course, isn't just "some ebay seller." He's a respected member of the numismatic community who earned his reputation over many years as an honest, knowledgeable, and generous person. His reputation -- along with his history of health issues -- calls more for compassion than condemnation. I fully understand that the long delay in publication has caused a deep sense of disappointment. I'm sorry to see that we've reached the point where that disappointment has turned to anger and accusations of fraud.

 

I pre-paid for Vol. II of the CPG in February of this year, so the wait hasn't been as long for me as for many others. I have know idea where Bill Fivaz stands in all this; and I have no idea why the authors can't provide the simple courtesy of an update on the CPG website. Still, I continue in faith that the volume will be published as soon as possible under whatever circumstances JT is facing. And, if I'm wrong, I'll probably continue to believe that he acted with the best of intentions.

 

AMEN!!

 

Chris

[ldhair]

Please jump in here if you have information you can share.

Sure JT is a great guy, but it's past that.

A lot of collectors put up funds in advance on this deal.

They deserve at least an update.

[michael]

consider it a donation to posterity and a good cause and a cheap coin education

 

do not pay for anything until you got it in your hot little hands

[TomB]

I did not pre-pay for Vol II because I saw no benefit in doing so. Michael has hit the nail on the head with what he has written and I find myself agreeing with those who think that the history of the non-publication of this book and the hoarding of facts regarding its status is not only disturbing, but is also unethical.

[nwcs]

I still say the most sensible thing to have done years ago was to either:

 

1. Cut off the book (or split it up) and get finished copies printed

2. Turn over the book to someone who can wrap it up quickly and effectively

[ldhair]

Please forgive me but ttt.

 

It's really a shame that none of the few that know the real truth

have the balls to speak up.

 

Yea...I know they have lawyers that write letters.

[BankNote1]

ldhair, if you know the truth then tell us! I would love to know?

[ldhair]

It's not my place to do so but,

I sure could fan the fire a bit.

[Jobalt-migration]

Does anyone think that Coinworld or Num. News would do a story on this? If so, I'd be happy to contact one or both of them.

 

Wish granted....see the 8/29/2005 issue of Coinworld and right there is a piece on this very issue.

 

No new news though from Stanton, though.

 

Oh well.

 

J

[4ucoin-migration]

Does anyone have the real web site for Cherry Pickers ? One of the posts mentions cherrypickers.com but when I went there I got a porno site. I'm assuming the posts are describing a book about coins. Right ??

[gmarguli]

Does anyone have the real web site for Cherry Pickers ? One of the posts mentions cherrypickers.com but when I went there I got a porno site. I'm assuming the posts are describing a book about coins. Right ??

 

It's cherrypickersguide.com, but the site you mentioned is probably more interesting.

[cpm9ball]

I, for one, was really happy to read JT's editorial in the 9/29/05 issue of Coin World. I just couldn't bring myself to believe that anyone who has dedicated so much of his life to the hobby could be so insensitive to everyone. His comments have reinforced that belief, and I am really looking forward to meeting him at the F.U.N Show in Orlando next January. I'm especially happy to learn that he is making a return to normal health, and I wish him all the best that life has to offer.

 

Chris