Anyone ever see a proof Peace dollar?

[James_OldeTowne]

I don't know anything about this subject, but isn't there a handful of purported proof 1921 Peace dollars in existence? Info appreciated.

 

James

[gmarguli]

There should be pictures of a few in the Heritage auction archives. I believe there are ones for 1921 & 1922.

[truthteller]

I don't know anything about this subject, but isn't there a handful of purported proof 1921 Peace dollars in existence? Info appreciated.

 

James

 

I just saw a high relief 1922 Peace dollar at the Santa Clara show. It was in US Coin's of Texas case. It really stood out. It was in a PCGS holder. It was 100% white, with a very grainy/matte textured finish, much like dull frosty chrome. The details were extemely fine. No luster at all.

 

 

 

TRUTH

[ArtR]

Jack Lee had both a 1921 & 1922 Proof Peace Dollar in his collection. I don't know if he still has them or if they have been sold.

[Oldtrader3]

I saw one at Long Beach 20 some years ago. It was a 1921 with full strike and a matte finish. Of course a '21 with full strike is unusual enough by itself.

[Newmismatist]

I just saw a high relief 1922 Peace dollar at the Santa Clara show. It was in US Coin's of Texas case. It really stood out. It was in a PCGS holder. It was 100% white, with a very grainy/matte textured finish, much like dull frosty chrome. The details were extemely fine. No luster at all.

 

It's a Matte Proof Finish Proof. ALL Matte proofs look dull a lusterless because of the Matte finish. If they're "shiney" of have "shiney" spots they've been messed with.- I've also seen that coin - the details are very crisp and sharp, far better than the grade extemely fine.

[nwcs]

I've heard that a common doctoring done on matte finish proofs is to sandblast them carefully.

[truthteller]

I just saw a high relief 1922 Peace dollar at the Santa Clara show. It was in US Coin's of Texas case. It really stood out. It was in a PCGS holder. It was 100% white, with a very grainy/matte textured finish, much like dull frosty chrome. The details were extemely fine. No luster at all.

 

It's a Matte Proof Finish Proof. ALL Matte proofs look dull a lusterless because of the Matte finish. If they're "shiney" of have "shiney" spots they've been messed with.- I've also seen that coin - the details are very crisp and sharp, far better than the grade extemely fine.

 

 

The grade wasn't extremely fine, the details were. The grade was PF66, and I assumed most people understood that I was talking about a matte proof.

 

 

TRUTH

[RobertB]

ANACS satin proof for sale currently at Heritage

[James_OldeTowne]

RobertB, THANKS! That's exactly what I was looking for! (images).

 

James

[Morgannut]

You know I don't like to criticise NGC here, but gee when the mint documents show they made 5 and 10 maximum of these (5 destroyed supposedly), you'd think NGC would photo those few sent for grading-- and NOT list a population of 19--not counting the ANACS one at Heritage, making 20. That's pretty lazy--and you know; these population numbers are sort of important historically if not financially .

[HaydenTubbs]

ANACS satin proof for sale currently at Heritage

 

That one's purty!

[AlixTCat]

ANACS satin proof for sale currently at Heritage

 

There is wear on this coin. Why would there be any wear on a PROOF? I don't believe it is a Proof. It looks like an ordinary coin that has been circulated and then sand blasted. Am I the only one who picked up on that?

 

Jonathan

[RWB]

Regarding proof Peace dollars. These were made in two finishes and from all four design/date variations. They were made on a medal press using fresh dies at a pressure of approx 150 tons. All received one strike from the press. As they came from the press, these were called “bright” proofs by the mint or what we now call “satin” proofs. After striking, some of the satin proofs were sandblasted by the mint. This produced the “sandblast proofs,” or what is sometimes called “matte.”

 

The coins were made for review by the director’s office and were intended to show the design at its artistic best (same as the sandblast proof Saint-Gaudens gold). They were not specifically made for sale to collectors and most seem to have gotten out via the director’s office, not the Philadelphia Mint.

 

Both satin and sandblast proofs were made of 1921 high relief coins; probably less than a dozen pieces. When Morgan re-engraved the high relief hubs in the last week of December 1921 (for 1922-dated dollars) he made a small number of proofs all of which appear to have been sandblasted; possibly 5-6 pieces. Working dies for these 1922 high relief pieces were also sent to Denver and San Francisco, but recalled when test striking showed the die breakage problems had not been solved.

 

In late January 1922 at least one satin and one sandblast proof of the medium relief reworked design (see Judd, 1922) were sent to the director Baker. These were forwarded to Jim Fraser (sculptor member of the Commission of Fine Arts) for his opinion. Fraser refused to approve the design and deFrancisci made a new low, relief model eventually used for the low relief coins of 1922-1935. Several (5-6 ?) sandblast and satin proofs were made of this version and may have been shown to members of the 1922 Assay Commission. The commission included Andrew Swasey, to whom at least one sandblast 1922 low relief coin is attributed.

 

FYI: The complete story of the Peace dollar, with much more detail including photos of original designs, etc., will be published as Part-II of a book in August. The first part deals with the 1916 design competition.

[RWB]

oops...Ambrose Swasey.

[TomB]

Jonathan, there can be wear on any proof coin as the term "proof" designates a method of manufacture, not of preservation. The coin in the Heritage auction is a proof piece and even these apparently did not have enough striking pressure to fill in the raised areas of the hairline on the obverse.

 

Here is a circulated proof that I own, it is an 1836 Gobrecht dollar that is graded PCGS PF10. In other words, it is a proof that has circulation consistent with the VG10 grade. This coin appears to have received its worn status through circulation and not as a pocket piece.

[AlixTCat]

Jonathan, there can be wear on any proof coin as the term "proof" designates a method of manufacture, not of preservation. The coin in the Heritage auction is a proof piece and even these apparently did not have enough striking pressure to fill in the raised areas of the hairline on the obverse.

 

Thanks Tom. I did know that "proof" was a method of manufacture. My problem was that I could not believe anyone would ever circulate a proof or carry it in their pocket. I mean, what were they thinking? You keep a proof coin in a collection, not carry it around with you. !

 

Jonathan

[RWB]

Jonathan,

Re: “...I could not believe anyone would ever circulate a proof or carry it in their pocket.”

 

From 1917 through 1935 there were no collectors’ proofs issued by the mint. The sandblast and satin proofs that exist were made so the director and others in the treasury department could see the design at its best. In theory, they were supposed to be returned to the Philadelphia Mint for destruction. In reality, they were treated haphazardly. Some were sent to the artists involved for their opinion and comment. Others were exchanged for face value as souvenirs, such as for Assay Commission members, or tossed into circulation. (This was the normal procedure for defective collectors’ proofs prior to 1917.)

 

To the non-collector, satin or sandblast proofs don’t look much different from ordinary coins, and it’s easy to imagine them being accidentally put into circulation by unknowing persons.

 

Consider this: In 1907 director Roberts acquired two of the first Saint-Gaudens extremely high relief double eagles during his visit to Philadelphia in February. He gave one coin to Robert Preston who was a former director now working as senior examiner for the Mint Bureau. Both men carried the coins in their pockets and coin purses for several years with no thought of the damage and wear on the EHR coins! In 1908 a different specimen of these was insured in-transit for $1,000; now they routinely bring over $1 million.

 

Hope this is helpful!