Crack the Slabs for Display (Not for Upgrade)?

[IGWT]

I've managed to pull together a set of gem mid-19th century coins with varieties and some patterns. Most of the grades assigned by the TPGs (both NGC and PCGS) are, in my opinion, in line with the condition of the coins; but there are some a tad high and others a bit low. A couple are pop 1/0 (although the "rank" of the coins has nothing to do with their place in my collection). Two other coins are pedigreed.

 

I desparately want to de-slab (crack & liberate) these coins so that I can organize and display them as I want. I just don't like the way that slabs detract from what would be the beauty of an assembled set. But . . . you all know the sizeable risks of liberating these coins.

 

Would you call me foolish or wise (or something else - but be kind) for following my desire. What would you do and why?

[Bruceswar]

Here is the way I see it... They are your coins... you buy they hopefully to please you... and if that is the case... then display them how you want... which in your case would be cracking them out and making a beautiful display with them... "Slabs don't make coins any better, they just give them a case in which they die in." Free those coins and if you collect for yourself, then you should not be worried about the values so much as you will probably hold on to the coins long enough you can reslab them and sell them if you so choose. I buy coins for me and I am not thinking about selling for the most part... I buy what pleases me.. Just my 2 cents...

[James_OldeTowne]

(((you all know the sizeable risks of liberating these coins.)))

 

What risks? The only risks I see here are that you are potentially losing out on maximum enjoyment of your coins! It sounds to me as if you purchased your coins with care, and since you plan to keep them (why else would you have bought them?), you should be true to your goals and display the coins exactly they way you want to.

 

Where slabs are concerned, I've been through three phases. In the first phase, I never cracked coins out. I was afraid of the so-called "risks" that I think you're referring to. I was a complete believe in the "power of the plastic", and pretty much wouldn't buy an uncertified coin. But certain events soured me completely on slabs, not the least of which was the infamous Norweb Hibernia incident. Plus, I learned about the problems with inconsistent grading, and the way many collectors lose out on the pleasure of being able to hold a coin in hand without the encumbrance of a huge slab.

 

Then, I went through the second phase. I literally cracked out every single coin I owned, and was blown away by what I'd been missing out on for years. There are just so many coins that look SO much better cracked out, and can be so much better enjoyed. But then, certain events soured me on the mistake of cracking out certain coins! These were incidents where the coin looked better in the slab, in some cases because certain minor "problems" were concealed. And of course, the issue of authenticity is nicely addressed by certification.

 

So today, I have learned that certain coins must stay in slabs, and certain ones should be removed. A Capped Bust half in original, beautifully toned AU-55 should be cracked out. So should any problem-free large cent, and so should your Standing Liberty quarters grading XF. In fact, as alluded to, any coin you want to keep for yourself should be liberated.

 

ANY coin where the certifed grade is the prime determinant of the coin's value that you think you might want to sell should stay in! Usually, this means high-grade coins, or cases where a special designation (DMPL, FBL, etc) comes into play. Also, a gold coin should stay in the slab if its numismatic value significantly exceeds its bullion value. Moderns should stay in slabs, and the list goes on.

 

But then again, unless you're a dealer, why would someone buy a coin that they didn't want to keep?

 

James

[cpm9ball]

Give James a "slab" on the back!

 

Chris

[EZ_E]

James summed it up very nicely!!

 

I, myself, will crack out most of my coins except for gold. I do this because I am mainly a type collector and enjoy viewing all of my coins in a set arrangement. In my case it is the Dansco type album. Almost everytime that I share this revelation I get beaucoup flak from fellow collectors. But, oh well. Many of my coins are very nice, PQ proofs. I guarantee you one thing, though, I certainly know how to grade and would never crack out a borderline coin. One could loose hundreds or even thousands of dollars if it were to downgrade. So, I certainly agree with your proposition but I would be very selective before cracking out a coin if the coin could possibly downgrade. There certainly is a risk involved and not just a downgrade. It would be very easy to harm the coin with either spittle, fingerprints or hairlines if one wasn't extremely careful. They would also be more prone to toning/discoloration in the wrong environment. So, if you live in a more humid/hot environment then I would possibly hesitate.

 

Plus, once I get my collection on par with my goals, I will send them all in to be graded by PCGS with consequetive serial numbers.

 

But, for your collector's attitude!

[supertooth]

Well, my opinion differs only slightly. First, you should enjoy your coins as you see fit. Plain as that. But I do wonder about removing them for several reasons. One is that a slab reasonably "protects" a coin whereas other holders may not do quite as good a job in that regard. Basically no "slide" marks in holders. Second, there is some danger that, when you reslab in order to sell, you may not get your original grade. Noone likes to receive a lower grade and then have to play the resubmit game. Third is a cost factor---eg. a 65 coin Walker set would cost quite a huge chunk of change to resubmit and reslab. What about a Morgan set?? Fourth---Although I like to handle my coins too, you always have a slight risk of damage of some sort out of the holder. Whereas, in the holder, such risks are almost non existant. Fifth---once out of the slab, any Registry set using the assigned slab grades becomes a definite problem. Not that every set has to become a Registry set---but people"s opinions and thoughts do change over time.And Sixth and last concern is this---in the slab the grade is what the TPGS says that it is [for all to see]. Out of the slab the grade can be argued ad infinitum. Good luck and enjoy your coins no matter what you do. Bob [supertooth]

[IGWT]

Thanks, everyone, for taking the time to share your thoughts. The different opinions reflect the ambivalence that I feel. The ultimate question is whether the benefits of enjoying the collection (like the Big EZ with his type set) offsets the potential loss in value (whether by loss of a certified grade or environmental damage -- Bob describes the risks well). I feel confident in my grading skills in this particular series; but, who knows what a TPG -- assuming they're still around -- will say after a 7-second look years from now.

 

That's the nub of my problem. The marketability and value of a coin depends in large part on the opinions of the TPGs -- opinions that can change from one day to the next. I dislike the fact that the "value" of a coin can change dramatically while the coin stays the same. I'll admit that a small part of my desire to break the coins out is to rebel against the power of the TPGs.

 

I'm hanging onto these coins, enjoying James's response , and (probably) taking my slabs to the bandsaw.

[Oldtrader3]

I have three sets of coins that I have cracked out of PCGS/NGC slabs and put into Capital Plastics holders. I prefer to display these sets this way. They are modern issues that may or may not attain their lofty slab grades again, but I bought them years ago before registries started.

[supertooth]

Do I detect a note of "independence" in your words IGWT?? Do not like the control of the TPGS over you and your coins? Well, my friend, I too feel the same way. Yet, I have struggled with my Walkers to get a "respectable" NGC set. I am old enough to remember when I got my copy of edition #1 of Photograde in 1970. And how I took my coins thru the process of grading them. But I also remember how some dealers just plain overgraded back then----same as they do now. Except now we have "some kind" of norm or standard---the TPGS. It isn"t perfect but it is better than it used to be. The trouble is that they have assumed a lot of "power". Their grading determines the values of the coins. They say it doesn"t---but it does. And now, after 20 years, they are in control of the coin market. They are "entrenched"----if you will. As an example----I buy my coins mostly raw and then have either NGC or ANACS slab them. If I buy an AU coin, I feel that it will slab an AU. But my son, age 29, will only buy NGC coins. Why?? Because he trusts my grading or NGC grading better than he trusts his own. Wonder how many feel as my son does? An awful lot I would think. So, if you feel that you are as good as the TPGS are, then crack those slabs. But just remember that you will die one day. Do you risk that your heirs will be as knowledgable as you are? Will they know how to take your set and get what it is really worth?? Or will they loose value because you failed to foresee the need to make sure that the coins were properly identified [in those slabs]?? As much as I hate to say it, each coin acquires more of a sense of "respectability" in those slabs. It does indeed impart a value to them that they do not have as a "RAW" coin. So I will take no chances. My valuable coins will stay in their slabs. My wife and kids have less chance of making mistakes that way. Course, if you had a James or a Hoot or a truthteller as your best friend, maybe you could think otherwise. Bob [supertooth]

[IGWT]

So, if you feel that you are as good as the TPGS are, then crack those slabs. But just remember that you will die one day.

 

Powerful message, Bob. Maybe I'm not heading to the bandsaw yet . . . .

 

Whether I feel that I'm as good as the TPGs doesn't (or shouldn't) really matter for two reasons. First, they've already given their opinion on the grades of the coins; shouldn't I be able to trust that they'd give the same opinion the second time around (barring any change to the condition of the coin)? I suppose that a "no" answer to that question -- and I think that most of us would answer that way -- demonstrates the absurdity of huge price jumps associated with 1-point grade differentials. Second, even if I am as good as the TPGs at grading this series, it just won't matter to any potential buyer. My grading skills won't convince anybody that I'm right without the TPG stamp of approval. Both these points confirm your observation that we collectors have handed way too much power over to the TPGs.

 

What do you mean that I will die one day!?

[supertooth]

Hello IGWT-----Now that I know you understand my meaning to the fullest, I will wish you a long life and many beautiful coins to come into that life. It is indeed a shame that it has come to these circumstances with the TPGS. I do not think that anyone really thought that it would matter this much----20 years ago. But, only the collector, truly knows his coins. My wife and son understand what I have done and what I am doing. But, if I were to die tomorrow, even they would have some degree of difficulty. For only I know it all----why certain coins are located where they are and not somewhere else. My intent was to only point out that, in the holders, it is so much easier for our loved ones to benefit from our knowledge. I do not know about you but my collection has totalled into the many thousands of dollars. When you buy only a coin or two at a time, it does not seem like much. But after many months and then many years, it just keeps adding up. Before you know it, it becomes a WOW after you do the adding. I always tell my daughter that I want her to have to admit that her dad knew what he was doing. I want them to just shake their collective heads and enjoy the fun that they will have----Gee, dad paid this much for it and look what we got for it. That type of thing. And, unfortunately, the TPGS will play a role in all of this. I look at it as a good thing mostly. I have played their GAME and I have helped my family in the process. I have loved to collect and I will enjoy knowing that they will do well with what I have done when I am gone. And, in the meantime, I am enjoying my hobby as best that I can. My final thought here is just that I wanted you to think first before you cracked out your coins. In the end, however, only you can take the responsibility for whether you do it or not. Bob [supertooth]

[IGWT]

How many of us have a collector's soul that is trapped in the body of an investor?

[James_OldeTowne]

There seem to be three prevailing reasons as to why folks are sometimes hesitant to crack coins out, so I'll offer my two-cents worth on each. Sorry in advance for the long post! Let me preface that I am NOT trying to convince anyone to crack their coins out if they just plain don't want to. As stated before, there are certain coins that should probably never be cracked out.

 

REASON #1: "slabs provide physical protection"

This is in general a valid statement, but in point of fact, I believe it is much overrated. The first thing that many collectors will point to are "slide marks" from coins stored in old albums. However, what most people fail to understand is that coins can very definitely be safely stored in old albums in perfect safety, and never acquire slide marks. My Washington quarter set contains a handful of coins that were certified MS-67, at least a couple of dozen that were certified MS-66, and many more that were certified MS-65, and of course, I've meticulously selected the uncertified coins, so there are numerous other MS-65 and MS-66s in the set. Not a single one has slide marks, and I frequently enjoy viewing, displaying and sharing my set with others.

 

The slide marks that appear on coins do not occur because they are an unavoidable problem of album storage, but rather because there was a time when collectors were frankly not concerned about them. In today's world, they lower a coin's grade, but that's because we now talk in terms of AU-50, 53, 55, 58, MS-60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65 ,66 ,67, etc. Before slabs, the grades were simply "XF", "BU", or "GEM". A slide mark didn't suddenly take a coin from "BU" to "XF", it remained "BU", so when they inadvertently happened, nobody cared. It's only because of today's extremely stringent numerical system that slide marks are so worrisome. A slide mark can take a coin from MS-64 to MS-63, and that could reflect a big change in value.

 

My point is, coins got slide marks not because the albums were a dangerous environment for coins, but because collectors didn't worry about them. The "grading resolution" was not sufficient (XF, BU, GEM) to reflect a problem in value. Since today's "grading resolution" is important, you just have to be careful in how you handle your coins in your albums. I am very careful, and the trade-off for using this care is that I can enjoy my complete collection in one easy to handle album, instead of a giant box of slabs.

 

There's one more intriguing factor that comes into play here, too. Coins in slabs never tone (at least theoretically ), whereas ones in an album do. I happen to enjoy toned coins. But if every coin in the world were slabbed, then we'd never have any toners!

 

REASON #2: "coins are more valuable in slabs"

There was a time when this statement was just about a fact. In typical face-to-face transactions, I believe it still holds some truth. If you approach a dealer with a bunch of MS-65 Walkers in 2x2 flips, versus in slabs, you WILL get more for the slabs. That's a fact of life. However, there's a very significant portion of the market that is often ignored, and that is the auction market. Over the past three to four years, I've seen a definite advantage to marketing un-certified coins in mid-size auctions (a good example that comes to mind is Scotsman). In these auctions, I have seen enough example of raw coins bringing more money than certified coins - sometimes much more - that I'm convinced that the phenomenon is too real to ignore.

 

In other words, there are times when a slab hinders a coin's value, because it inhibits the "speculative" nature of bidders. The perfect examples of this are type coins, or so-called "collector coins" in upper middle-grades, such as VF-30 through AU. As I've mentioned elsewhere, in the past two Scotsman auctions, I've been stunned by the bids that better-date un-certified VF/XF Barber coins, bust coins, and key-date coins bring versus certified coins. And it isn't limited to circ's, either. I've been amazed to see the money thrown at un-certified high-grade material, too! I do believe much of the allure lies in the belief that "raw coins" are "fresh". There's a common belief these days that many slabs contain "tired coins", or coins that get pushed around from dealer to dealer and never find a home.

 

I'll go back to a simple example from the last Scotsman auction. There was an album set of Roosevelt dimes, many of which were nicely toned. The set brought an incredibly high bid, though I don't have an exact number. The winner was at multiples of Scotsman's high estimate, and way, way above anything I would have bid. Now, I just happen to have an identical complete set in old NGC slabs, every coin toned, and every single one graded MS-66. I've been trying to sell them for over two years now, and after subtracting the cost of the slabs, my asking price is well below what the Scotsman dimes sold for! So, at least in this example, the raw set is worth MORE than the certified set.

 

REASON #3: "I'm going to die, and my heirs need the slabs to get what the coins are worth"

The problem that I see here is, you could live with your coins for fifty years, and never in that time get the maximum enjoyment out of them, because you aren't allowed to handle them, or see them unencumbered. That is sad! The way I look at it, I've provided for my heirs through insurance and property, not through my coin collection. My coin collection is for me, and those who share an interest in looking at it. I have explained to the family many times that should I suddenly be struck down, the coins should be sold at auction, because ultimately, that is what will get the best value, and that's regardless of whether they're certified or not.

 

Your heirs' best friend is not a slab; it's a trustworthy coin dealer. If you put the time and effort into developing a worthy numismatic relationship with someone you can trust, it will pay multiple dividends in the long run.

 

CONCLUSION:

There's really no compelling financial reason to crack your coins out of slabs. But unless the coins you have are completely dependent on the certified grade, in other words "grade rarities", then there's probably no compelling financial reason to leave your coins in the slabs, either.

 

The ultimate advice is to do what feels best to you. If that means cracking the coins out, then by all means, do so. They payoff for the perceived "loss of value" might be a tenfold increase in enjoyment! On the other hand, if you really like the security of certification, leave your coins in!! Your heirs might end up being a lot richer than the rest of us!

 

James

[supertooth]

IGWT------In 50 years of on again and off again collecting, your one liner has to be one of the best that I have ever heard. I guess it has been said before you said it?? but how true it must be for many of us. I know that I have to admit that I am guilty as charged. My expenditure of funds has always had more than one motive. Besides the thrill of the hunt etc. etc. there has always been that I needed to justify, at least in my mind, that, when and if the time ever came, my family would benefit from my decisions. After all, I have benefited from my dad and granddad---my wife from her parents as well. That money rightfully should pass on to my two children----at the appropriate time. In the meantime, I am enjoying my time with it. Unfortunately in the buying and selling of coins, the prices have gotten to the point that---anyone who thinks he is participating in a "hobby" better take another look at how much he or she has invested in that "hobby". And then tell me that he or she is not involved in a "business" instead. Heck---I got more money----much more money involved in just one set of "early" Walkers than my dad and grandad ever made together in income in a year. I guess that might not shock some folks but to me that means I have an obligation beyond just having "fun" and completing a set of coins. I caution all serious collectors to "think" about that percent of their total worth that they have in their collections. As with me, it might turn out that your collection is not just a "hobby" anymore. And one final point. The TPGS have taken the small coin business and made it into a "MEGA" corporation. Anyone who doubts that statement should read "Coin World" after each and every major coin auction and add up the millions of dollars made and changed hands with every auction that takes place. Those coins that are sold are not "raw" anymore. Folks, those coins are in PCGS, and NGC and ANACS holders for the most part. So, you all tell me who is controlling the coin business these days?? Like they say---just follow the money trail. Bob [supertooth]

[James_OldeTowne]

(((Unfortunately in the buying and selling of coins, the prices have gotten to the point that---anyone who thinks he is participating in a "hobby" better take another look at how much he or she has invested in that "hobby". And then tell me that he or she is not involved in a "business" instead. Heck---I got more money----much more money involved in just one set of "early" Walkers than my dad and grandad ever made together in income in a year.)))

 

I am pretty sure that I have "invested" more money in the past year in going out to eat and movies than I have "invested" in my coins!

 

James

[EZ_E]

Two other coins are pedigreed.

 

I would hesitate to crack these coins out if the one pedigreed is well known. I'm sure that James EarlyUS would agree...

 

 

What risks? The only risks I see here are that you are potentially losing out on maximum enjoyment of your coins! It sounds to me as if you purchased your coins with care, and since you plan to keep them (why else would you have bought them?), you should be true to your goals and display the coins exactly they way you want to.

 

I certainly agree with this statement.

 

 

ANY coin where the certifed grade is the prime determinant of the coin's value that you think you might want to sell should stay in! Usually, this means high-grade coins, or cases where a special designation (DMPL, FBL, etc) comes into play. Also, a gold coin should stay in the slab if its numismatic value significantly exceeds its bullion value. Moderns should stay in slabs, and the list goes on.

 

Very sound advice!

 

 

Plus, once I get my collection on par with my goals, I will send them all in to be graded by PCGS with consequetive serial numbers.

 

I made this statement not because I think that PCGS has better graders, necessarily, but because I thing that NGC's slabs are too bulky and the plastic is too soft and thick,which distorts the true visualization of the coin. I have lots of NGC slabs but I feel that all TPGS's should invest a little more in more durable, translucent slabs which are absolutely airtight and free from contaminants!

 

 

Do you risk that your heirs will be as knowledgable as you are? Will they know how to take your set and get what it is really worth?? Or will they loose value because you failed to foresee the need to make sure that the coins were properly identified [in those slabs]?? As much as I hate to say it, each coin acquires more of a sense of "respectability" in those slabs. It does indeed impart a value to them that they do not have as a "RAW" coin. So I will take no chances. My valuable coins will stay in their slabs. My wife and kids have less chance of making mistakes that way.

 

'Tis a very true and sobering statement, one that every collector should consider!!! One cannot make an absolute statement such as, "all coin dealers are crooks" but, IMO, greater than 50% of them are. I remember a collector stating on these boards once that they witnessed a dealer con an unknowledgable seller in his shop. The seller had a bunch of IHC's and had an 1877 among them. The dealer gave peanuts for the lot and bragged about how he ripped the seller off. The snake! There is such a thing as living one's life with honor and integrity. This means doing the right thing even when no one is looking. This guy had his morals so warped that he didn't even care who was looking! Oh well, let his actions be on his on head if and when there is a Day of Accountability!

 

Both these points confirm your observation that we collectors have handed way too much power over to the TPGs.

 

Perhaps this is true but, IMO, they are the absolute best thing that has happened to this hobby. David Hall constantly receives his share of flak and most of it is probably deserved (I've made a total of 4 posts on that side of the street in the two years since I've registered so I certainly have no agenda here) but the man deserves his place in numismatics for his incredible impact which he has made on the hobby. Sure, ALL third party grading services have had their share of squirrelliness and are out to make a profit but the top three deserve their respect for the protection they give to the hobbiest.

 

My final thought here is just that I wanted you to think first before you cracked out your coins. In the end, however, only you can take the responsibility for whether you do it or not.

 

Gee, this guy has wisdom which rivals Ghandi's.

 

 

How many of us have a collector's soul that is trapped in the body of an investor?

 

This is, like, one of the greatest quotes ...... EVER!

 

The problem that I see here is, you could live with your coins for fifty years, and never in that time get the maximum enjoyment out of them, because you aren't allowed to handle them, or see them unencumbered. That is sad!

 

James, I only have three things to say to you:

 

1)

 

2)

 

3)

 

 

But, I still feel that some coins that are super-high grades should not be broken out of their slabs and I don't necessarily mean coffin coins , either.

 

And, finally...

 

What do you mean that I will die one day!?

 

Old Farts Never Die ......... They Just Linger On!

[IGWT]

A great big to everyone who took the time to respond. You've made me glad that I decided to register and to participate instead of lurking. Thanks.

[EZ_E]

A great big to everyone who took the time to respond. You've made me glad that I decided to register and to participate instead of lurking. Thanks.

 

 

Great question and great thread. So, thanks to you!

[IGWT]

I joined the NGC forum two years ago in large part to ask this particular question. And I've been thinking about it ever since . . . I'm nothing if not deliberate. The wait -- or, more specifically, the sum of events from which I've continued to learn over the past two years -- has pushed me further in the direction of my initial inclination.

 

I agree with James even more now than when he shared his thoughts and advice on the first go-round.

[James_OldeTowne]

Cool old thread!!!!!!!!!!

 

There's a good reason why I'm glad you brought it back up. The good news for me is that I still feel the same way today as I did back then. It reaffirms my goals, and I appreciate you're comments.

[CHABSENTIA]

I am relatively new to the board but will put on my two cents.I started with Silver Eagles.I already had some raw coins and I had been buying thr Proofs every year but I dropped the ball on the 1995W and didn't buy it from thr Mint. I didn't make the same mistake on the 20th Anniversary but I did open the box so I could onlt submit the reverse eagle for the Black Label.I also decided to collect the Uncircs.

 

I am finished with them and had some Morgans so I am now going with them.Many years ago I had a lot of nice Morgans and when Silver went to $50.00 an ounce I sold most of them.There is no big deal on collecting a Modern such as a A.S.E. The Morgans are different and I had to learn the ins and outs on the VAMsI asked the questions I need to ask on the Vams for which I was a little confused and got answers here.I have also found the site Vamworld.com.They have a page that lists all the dates in order and their Mints.If you want to know what Vams were discovered for say 1887 O then you just go to 1887 and click on the O for that date and it lists every known example to that date and explains it with pictures.

 

There are a lot of Junk Morgans on EBAY in the raw state. Ones that wouldn't get a grade of VF are described as Superb and excellent..I try to get a Morgan graded in MS65. I have a list of the values for each coin from Numesmedia,Coin world and the red book for the grades I am willing to accept.The 1893 and 1895 are exceptions. If I can buy an MS65 that is already slabbed by NGC or PCGS for a discount of at least 20-25% less then that value then I purcase the slabbed coin.The main reason for this is that even if you can grade great there is always the chance that you can get a coin that has been cleaned etc and may not get a MS65 grade if it hasn't been cleaned etc. .

 

I also think that these Coin shows on T.V are really goofing it up.Their prices are at least about 40% inflated to begin and they are advertsing what looks to me as AU/BU Morgans and talking about how nice they are.I think that the unsophisticated are getting false inflated values from these shows and are really bidding up the certified slabs in many cases.They are also bidding up what I would consider the exceptional raw Morgans.So the certified coins are bid up in many cases higher than the Numismedia value and the raw Morgans are being cherry picked and really bid up.Anything with the word VAM in the description even if it is not labeled on the Certified coin or supposed on the raw coins is going at a premium.Many of these bidders have numbers from 1 to 40 for feedback with most on the lower end..Also less than 2 months on Ebay.

 

I try to find out everything I can about an area and concentrate on only one area. Right now it is the Morgans and it seems to me that the rises in prices in this area are due to unsophistcated buyers at least as far as Value is concerned.. I refuse to pay inflated values. The other night I bid on 4 Morgans and only got one as two are three people came in at the last two minutes and bid them up.That coin I got even though I had the same maximum bid value because mine was the

earliest.

 

 

[Conder101]

Do you risk that your heirs will be as knowledgable as you are? Will they know how to take your set and get what it is really worth?? Or will they loose value because you failed to foresee the need to make sure that the coins were properly identified [in those slabs]??

Who cares if they "get what it is really worth" and they have zero dollars in the set, how can they lose value? Anything my heirs get is an increase in the Zero that they have invested, if they sell too cheap and don't get as much as they could that's their problem not mine. Sorry I don't feel I OWE my heirs anything. My collection is for MY enjoyment. If the heirs get something out of it after I'm gone that's fine, but I'm not going to worry about it or how much they will get.

[Bruceswar]

Do you risk that your heirs will be as knowledgable as you are? Will they know how to take your set and get what it is really worth?? Or will they loose value because you failed to foresee the need to make sure that the coins were properly identified [in those slabs]??

Who cares if they "get what it is really worth" and they have zero dollars in the set, how can they lose value? Anything my heirs get is an increase in the Zero that they have invested, if they sell too cheap and don't get as much as they could that's their problem not mine. Sorry I don't feel I OWE my heirs anything. My collection is for MY enjoyment. If the heirs get something out of it after I'm gone that's fine, but I'm not going to worry about it or how much they will get.

 

 

I could not agree more!

[RGT]

Do you risk that your heirs will be as knowledgable as you are? Will they know how to take your set and get what it is really worth?? Or will they loose value because you failed to foresee the need to make sure that the coins were properly identified [in those slabs]??

Who cares if they "get what it is really worth" and they have zero dollars in the set, how can they lose value? Anything my heirs get is an increase in the Zero that they have invested, if they sell too cheap and don't get as much as they could that's their problem not mine. Sorry I don't feel I OWE my heirs anything. My collection is for MY enjoyment. If the heirs get something out of it after I'm gone that's fine, but I'm not going to worry about it or how much they will get.

 

 

I could not agree more!

 

Then why do we hear such an uproar about the little old lady who gets a tiny fraction of the coins worth when selling her late husbands collection? She got more than zero, so she came out like a bandit.

[Tradedollarnut]

One can never be 100% certain of tomorrow's personal financial outlook. You may think today it doesn't matter if your coins will grade the same upon resubmission, yet regret that thinking if your financial position changes.

 

If you want to keep your coins raw, buy them raw or avoid top pop coins altogether.

[James_OldeTowne]

Do you risk that your heirs will be as knowledgable as you are? Will they know how to take your set and get what it is really worth?? Or will they loose value because you failed to foresee the need to make sure that the coins were properly identified [in those slabs]??

Who cares if they "get what it is really worth" and they have zero dollars in the set, how can they lose value? Anything my heirs get is an increase in the Zero that they have invested, if they sell too cheap and don't get as much as they could that's their problem not mine. Sorry I don't feel I OWE my heirs anything. My collection is for MY enjoyment. If the heirs get something out of it after I'm gone that's fine, but I'm not going to worry about it or how much they will get.

 

 

I could not agree more!

 

Then why do we hear such an uproar about the little old lady who gets a tiny fraction of the coins worth when selling her late husbands collection? She got more than zero, so she came out like a bandit.

 

Randy, the difference is that the little old lady is being told what the coins are worth, illegitimately. The coins are being "appraised", and for a dealer to intentionally appraise them at pennies on the dollar definitely deserves to cause an uproar. She didn't buy them, and therefore didn't predetermine a value.

 

However, if I buy a coin, then I AM predetermining for myself what the coins are worth (presuming I'm a competent collector). Thus, I can take them to a no-good dealer and have the knowledge to refuse the offer.

 

One can never be 100% certain of tomorrow's personal financial outlook. You may think today it doesn't matter if your coins will grade the same upon resubmission, yet regret that thinking if your financial position changes.

 

If you want to keep your coins raw, buy them raw or avoid top pop coins altogether.

For me, the solution is to make sure your purchasing of coins never impacts your finances. Keep the coin budget small enough that it doesn't detract from your ability to survive financially.

 

The best defense is to get to a point where you never add money to your collection. You only do trades, in essence. That's where I've been trying to get to, and I'm almost there.

[MikeInFL]

IGWT,

 

It all depends on the value of the coins, and my confidence that the coins will "make the grade" upon resubmission.

 

Personally, I've broken many coins out to put in a Dansco 7070. The majority of the coins were sub $250 coins -- coins I would call inexpensive.

 

My more valuable coins remain as-purchased -- mostly slabbed. Mostly because they live in a safety deposit box, and are not "for display" in the first place.

 

Hope this helps...Mike

[RGT]

Randy, the difference is that the little old lady is being told what the coins are worth, illegitimately. The coins are being "appraised", and for a dealer to intentionally appraise them at pennies on the dollar definitely deserves to cause an uproar. She didn't buy them, and therefore didn't predetermine a value.

 

However, if I buy a coin, then I AM predetermining for myself what the coins are worth (presuming I'm a competent collector). Thus, I can take them to a no-good dealer and have the knowledge to refuse the offer.

 

James, I was directing my response to Conder and Bruce who I understood were discussing heirs who inherit collections. Certainly you or I or pretty much anyone on this forum would have the knowledge to not get ripped off. But would our heirs have the knowledge? I keep good records and my wife knows how to find out what I paid and what I grade each coin. If something should happen to both of us would my daughter's new guardians know what to do with the collection? Would I care if they got ripped off selling them resulting in much less cash for my daughter? The answer is yes, I would care.

 

Maybe someone who is quite well off and has an insignificant portion of their worth tied up in coins doesn't need to care. While my collection is relatively small it is still enough that I would like my heirs to benefit from it. Everyone's situation is different so we can't make a blanket statment that no one should care if their heirs get a fair price for their coins. Maybe Conder and Bruce don't need to care, but many people should.

[bsshog40]

One thing I've done is always eduacate my wife on my coins. I also keep a nice inventory of my coins and thier values. Sometimes she gets bored with my talk but I can tell by some of the coins she's bought me, that some of my knowledge does sink in.

[IGWT]

One can never be 100% certain of tomorrow's personal financial outlook. You may think today it doesn't matter if your coins will grade the same upon resubmission, yet regret that thinking if your financial position changes.

 

If you want to keep your coins raw, buy them raw or avoid top pop coins altogether.

 

I'd be more concerned about my mental health than my financial health if a one- or two-point swing in a coin's grade -- or even a bodybag -- ever has anything more than a neglible effect in my life. I wouldn't suggest that anyone place their wellbeing in the hands of a grading service . . . and, it might seem counterintuitive, but that's exactly what one does by deciding not to crack a slab for financial reasons.

 

I love buying raw coins; but, unfortunately, the vast majority of coins that suit me are already slabbed.

 

Edited to add: If I ask nicely, will CAC sticker my 2x2's?