Lets do a few more at/nt questions

[midwest]

Since the world of NT/AT can be quite gray sometimes lets test the waters with a few questions.

 

#1 is buying an AT coin just because you like it good or bad?

 

#2 Lets say you buy an AT coin because you like it. For some reason you decide to certify it. When it comes time to sell it you put it in EBAY and clearly state it is AT but it sells for a large sum of money. Is this wrong?

 

#3 Is buying from an AT dealer good or bad? ( one who cooks up AT coins)

 

[kryptonitecomics]

#1 No it's not bad...they can be very pretty at times.

 

#2 If it's clearly AT and you attempt to certify it...then that means it will either end up in a body bag or in an ANACS/PCI holder labeled as AT so your fine. If it does holder with PCGS/NGC....then how can you be 100% sure it was AT in the first place unless you personally cooked the coin. If you buy the coin raw from a dealer as AT, but it holders (PCGS/NGC) then according to the TPG it's market acceptable so I would have no problem not listing it as AT. I see AT coins bring solid money everyday of the week on Ebay, so if I personally owned a coin I knew was AT and I listed it as such on Ebay and it sold for crazy money.....I wouldn't lose any sleep since you fully disclosed the coin was AT and some folks don't seem to care.

 

#3 I would say it's bad and I try to stay away from dealers who routinely sell AT coins, unless they are listing coins as being AT. Braddick is one seller that comes to mind.....he sells a lot of pretty coins and also some AT stuff usually in holders.....but he always lists the coins as AT or at least makes comments stating whether he thinks the toning is original and I think that's the honest way to handle things.

[midwest]

#3 I would say it's bad and I try to stay away from dealers who routinely sell AT coins, unless they are listing coins as being AT. Braddick is one seller that comes to mind.....he sells a lot of pretty coins and also some AT stuff usually in holders.....but he always lists the coins as AT or at least makes comments stating whether he thinks the toning is original and I think that's the honest way to handle things.

 

 

Look at #3 again for more clarification

[AmericanCopper-migration]

Personally, I've only had one coin to my knowledge that was an AT coin, (a Morgan I saw that caught my eye and I knew beyond question was AT before I bought it) and 5 or six lower MS grade NGC/PCGS slabbed ones (not Morgans) that for the sake of arguement were NT's, so with my limited exposure to them, please take anything I say with a grain of salt.

 

I think that if you are truly a collector, you should buy what you like, regardless the cost, as long as you don't exceed your comfort level, and don't give a thought about an aftermarket for it. But if reselling at a substantial profit is your motivation, well.....

 

I think some vest-pocket sellers and dealer wannabe's attempt to squeeze every penny out of a deal, so they can be "One of the Big Players", and when they foist shady material on the unsuspecting newbies on eBay without full disclosure, they do irreparable damage to the poor smuck who didn't know; the TPG's that get fooled; (they are fallible humans after all...well some are. Human, that is), and the trickle-down effect affects the entire collecting community negatively. Personally, I think there are enough people without the strength of character to withstand temptation to rip kids off already circulating among us to keep us well-supplied with sub-standard merchandise for a long-long time. Do we really need more?.

 

If you want to experiment with AT, buy some silver rounds for melt and play with them. It wont hurt the hobby, and no matter how great or how badly they come out, they'll always be worth melt.

 

Ask yourself if you would be someone who could enhance the hobby by your decisions as to what is the right thing to do or further degrade the hobby that's enjoyed by millions for the sake of money. I guess that anyone who does this has to measure the cost of their personal integrity. If anyone's standards are for sale, they know what their selling cost is.

[michael]

selling all AT coins is not a positive thing

 

hurts the collectors benefits the sellers who know it is AT or have a good damned idea throughout the food chain that is was AT started at the beginning asAT and sold as such

 

no positive benefit to the end user who gets stuck with it and no benefit to the coin hobby

 

only to the rip off artist and if it is okie to some then i would like to see their families friends mothers sisters and brothers and children spend their hard earned monry on them as AT is done to make the coin worth more more saleable due to color and/or to hide something

 

certainly sounds ethical high class and the right thing to do...NOT even if you state as such it is AT ....NOT

 

even if you state it in an auction someone will buy it for greedy reasons and resell it to someone else

 

no good ever comes of it

[michael]

the seller on ebay of these coins i would like them to go to the store or get their property fixed either a car or appliance or whatever

 

done by someone who is AT coins to rip people off and have this ebay seller deal with these kinds of crooks and see how they are treated

 

tit for tat

 

it is all about greed and ripping people off under the guise of OH IT IS AT AND I AM TELLING YOU THIS BEFORE YOU BID

 

yea right this certainly makes it all better

 

next time this ebay seller goes to the gas pump and relies on the honesty of the station owner and the weights and measures office that he gets the quality gas he pays for and gets a full gallon not get some crappy watered down dirt gas and then only .90 of a gallon

 

if you got any ethics or honesty or class or integrity you do not sell AT [embarrasing lack of self control] just like when you go to a place of business you expect to have some sort of integrity from whom you buy from

 

in the end this AT thing hurts many buyers and also the hobby in general you can preach all you want to anfd absolve yourself it still does not change the fazct it is wrong and you are hurting not helping the hobby

 

swine pig

[cpm9ball]

I agree with Michael 100%. Furthermore, just because an honest seller makes the fact known that a coin is AT doesn't mean that somewhere down the "food chain of greed" there won't be someone who will use that coin to rip someone off. Let's say that an AT coin is graded, slabbed and identified as AT. What is there to prevent some scumbag from cracking it and passing it off to some unknowing collector as NT?

 

Ban them all and encourage all TPG's to bodybag them! Better yet, why not "cancel" them the way the mint does with old dies?

 

Chris

[midwest]

if you got any ethics or honesty or class or integrity you do not sell AT [embarrasing lack of self control] just like when you go to a place of business you expect to have some sort of integrity from whom you buy from

 

in the end this AT thing hurts many buyers and also the hobby in general you can preach all you want to anfd absolve yourself it still does not change the fazct it is wrong and you are hurting not helping the hobby

 

swine pig

 

This is going to get intresting

 

That is what I have been wondering. If you buy an AT coin just because you like it aren't you making a legitimate market for these? In the end where there is profit AT coin will be made but in a way buying them does impact the hobby.

 

Then if you sell somewhere down the line some one WILL get screwed by that coin.

 

any opinion expressed may not be mine.I can just see both sides of the issue.

[IGWT]

#1 is buying an AT coin just because you like it good or bad?

 

#2 Lets say you buy an AT coin because you like it. For some reason you decide to certify it. When it comes time to sell it you put it in EBAY and clearly state it is AT but it sells for a large sum of money. Is this wrong?

 

#3 Is buying from an AT dealer good or bad? ( one who cooks up AT coins)

 

IMO, the actions in #1 and #3 are neither good nor bad standing alone. Only the buyer and the seller are affected and (assuming the buyer recognizes the A in the T) both are satisfied. Who cares if the buyer wants to purchase a chemical reaction instead of a coin? In the larger picture, though, I object to the extent that collectible coins with original surfaces are damaged in the process.

 

The action in #2, IMO, is unquestionably bad. The sole purpose for having a TPG certify the coin is to place it in the numismatic stream of commerce. The certification implies that the coin is NT and will almost certainly be sold or purchased as NT downstream. Don't pee in the stream.

 

Interesting topic, Midwest. Thanks.

[Oldtrader3]

This entire thread is making me a little uncomfortable. IMHO, there are no grey areas with AT coins. They are out there and some are in slabs, but they are a method of realizing gain by fraudulent means. Nothing else can be said about the practice. It is kind of like counterfeit money. It is or it is'nt. There is no grey area.

 

I am aware that, years ago, I did not see nearly the number of highly toned coins that I see now on the market. Slabs are inert. They didn't tone all these coins. Who or what did?

 

Midwest, there are no "waters to test". The practice is unethical, period. I knew one coin doctor who got almost everything he made into slabs and he made hundreds of them. For me, that fact is a little scary and makes me more wary of colored coins.

[michael]

i am not uncomfortable at all

 

for me within my speciality areas

 

you got three types of coins

 

1) //////no brainer AT coins

 

2) coins that might be AT or NT just not sure

 

3) no brainer NT coins

 

if you specialize in an area and you only buy the no brainer NT coins number 3 then you are okie you might have to pass on some you think could go either way or some you think it is most probably NT then for me i pass

 

only the absolute no brainers for me and if you are in the know within your speciality and with ythe other collectors and dealers in the grape vine it aint hard for you to do this but of course it takes decades to do this

 

i am lucky i have been around this den of snakes, rats, swine pigs and dung beetles a long time