Legend's Hot Topic Report

[CTcollector]

One of the better pieces of literature I've seen come out of Legend in a long time. I think there is a very important and straight forward message in this one, which I agree with whole heartedly.

 

QUALITY VS. STATUS

07-20-2005

 

Recently we have seen several top Registry set collections that were really not worthy of their lofty rankings. The sets included many coins that were nothing more than average for the grade as best. Many coins offered little in the way of eye appeal (probaly the most underrated factor in value). In one case, we even purchased a top set that was so inferior, we sold it immediately and happily took a loss. It was scarey to us how these collectors strove for top ranking vs top quality. Buying the coins, NOT the holder, really DOES still mean something.

 

In our opinion, a top ranked registry set should have coins that are not only superior for the grade, but also ones that look the part. Shame on ALL the grading services for allowing junky coins to exist at the higher grades. And shame on the collectors who feel they need to buy these coins because of set registry pressure.

 

Building a top teir registry set will only have optimium benefits if you pat attention to the coins themsleves. Buying a coin simply because its a pop 1 or is tied for the finest does NOT add value to a collection if the coin is substandard. You are far better off buying a PQ lesser grade piece than a lackluster low end coin in ahigher grade holder. People are quick to forget that top ranked sets are supposed to be a combination of the ultimate in quality and rarity. So what if you have every coin but one or two in top grade? The idea is to create a memorable set. One bad apple WILL standout and hurt the overall set.

 

Remember this: buyers will show LESS attention to ANY set if there is nothing special-even if it is top ranked. You certainly won't be able to attain any signifciant premium when you go to sell.

 

Our point here is to remind everyone what the meaning of building a top tier registry set is all about. Even if you are out for the prestige that a top sets brings, you still need to always remember, your setting out to build a great collection. You should NEVER have to convince yourself to buy a coin because of its holder or what the coin would do for your set. Be patient-it does yield rewards and sometimes saves you money.

 

We can't say this enough: BUY THE COIN, NOT THE HOLDER! These words hold true-even in the wild registry races.

[Tradedollarnut]

However, a coin can be not 'nice' or 'PQ' and yet still be the finest by a significant margin .... what do you do then? After all, it's the same quality coin .... just in the wrong numbered holder.

 

That's the grading services fault for pushing the envelope too much!

[CTcollector]

TDN - I hear you. My take is that grading services are "for profit" organizations and despite the tremendous amount of good they offer the hobby, they need to continually entice those (re)submissions due to the finite population of collectible coins. Pushing the envelope and creating "instant value" for submitters is the best way to ensure this.

 

I think the buy side (collectors) need to always insist on fair value for their money. One day coin collecting will be about coins again and those who hold fresh coins with eye appeal that are accurately graded from a technical stand point will be rewarded while those that chased plastic and registry points above all else will be in for some downside. Bull markets eventually revert back to fundamentals. Thats just my humble opinion.

[Hoot]

In some ways, this is almost absurd. Take this statement:

 

The sets included many coins that were nothing more than average for the grade as best.

 

Of course! Most coins holdered will be average for their grade! This is almost a laughable criticism.

 

Here are two statements (one following the other that have disparate meaning:

 

In our opinion, a top ranked registry set should have coins that are not only superior for the grade, but also ones that look the part. Shame on ALL the grading services for allowing junky coins to exist at the higher grades.

 

It's a fine idealism to state that a top-ranked set should have superior coins in it. However, in every grade, the coins span a range from low-end to high-end for the grade. Currently, only NGC employs a method for distinguishing eye appealing coins (not necessarily high-end for the grade, mind you), and many collectors find the star designation controversial. PCGS does not make such distinctions, so a low-end 67 scores as high as a high-end 67. So what?

 

As for the statement about junky coins, there is no "shame" to be passed on to the grading services. Like many others, I do not like it when my coins get misgraded, high or low, but it happens. The grading services are full of people and they are on a constant roll of mistakes - make no mistake about it.

 

Now, here's what I can get behind:

 

You are far better off buying a PQ lesser grade piece than a lackluster low end coin in a higher grade holder

 

Also:

 

You should NEVER have to convince yourself to buy a coin because of its holder or what the coin would do for your set. Be patient-it does yield rewards and sometimes saves you money.

 

If all the rest of the message were deleted and only these last three sentences remained, then it would be a reasonably good message. The rest is tabloid trash-talk at best.

 

Hoot

[cladking]

The problem here is really in the definitions of the grades themselves. In order for a coin to truly be "average for the grade" they have to be average in all the criteria of grading. This would be a rare coin, indeed. Instead we have de facto "net grading" or market grading. There are buyers for coins which are horriblt struck but pristine and there are buyers for coins that have some marking but were beautifully made. The problem is largely that we all see coins differently and that the way we see them on average varies over time. If registry coins are selected largely on the basis of strike then those who prefer clean coins will see them as over-graded or even typical and vice versa. There is also some buying of coins based strictly on the numbers on a holder but this is probably not the major cause of the percieved difference since, at least theoretically, a low-end 67 should be a nicer coin than a high end 66.

[Mozin]

I pretty much agree with Hoot.

 

Some of the Legend statements make me wonder if they are only trying to justify their rather large premiums for what they are trying to sell as PQ for the grade.

[James_OldeTowne]

Actually, I cannot agree with most of what this article states. To me, collecting for a registry set is much different than collecting as a coin colllector. For those folks who are registry fanatics - and I completely respect their passion - the actual appearance of the coin is really not important! The only thing that matters is the grade assigned by the service.

 

As a coin collector, I really can't stomach that attitude, but I just think there's a different mentality for registry collctors, since the whole point is collecting according to the standards set by the grading service - whether those standards be low, high, scatterbrained, or whatever.

 

James

[CTcollector]

Hey guys - I never thought I would be in a position to defend Legend. But I re-read the article and I think you guys are being a little too hard. The main points I take away (whether registry building or just collecting) are;

 

Buy the coin and not the holder

 

Eye appeal and technical merits are often over looked in lieu of points on the plastic

 

You are better off with a PQ coin in a lower holder than a dog in the next grade up

 

Be patient and selective

 

Seek value - money saved is just as good as money made

 

Quality will pay off in the end

 

I read Laura's posts across the street and hardly ever agree with them. I thought this was a good improvement over the usual horn tooting. Like them or not, Legend is influential in the hobby and I think this is some good advice. I can't say that for all of Legend's literature, but this one I need to give some credit to.

[MikeInFL]

I agree, this was tame for the folks at Legend. It seems more than coincidental that the PQ coins they are touting carry a premium price, and are the same coins they happen to specialize in, and the same coins where the profit is. Strange how that works. They do have nice coins, though...Mike

[michael]

[IGWT]

Hoot and Cladking express my thoughts well. The top two TPGs provide a valuable service in authentication and grading (with a reasonable degree of consistency) that provides some assurance in transactions; but they have forsaken that worthy goal in favor of trying to create market demand for the coins they slab. Infecting collectors with "Registryitis" is just one example.

 

It blows my mind to think about how much power the collecting community has handed over to the TPGs.

[RGT]

In one case, we even purchased a top set that was so inferior, we sold it immediately and happily took a loss.

 

We can't say this enough: BUY THE COIN, NOT THE HOLDER! These words hold true-even in the wild registry races.

 

I'm surprised no one has pointed this out yet. It seems Legend isn't following their own advice and is buying registry coins sight-unseen for the holder, not the coin. Maybe they are just now learning this lesson.

[AlixTCat]

One of the better pieces of literature I've seen come out of Legend in a long time. I think there is a very important and straight forward message in this one, which I agree with whole heartedly.

 

QUALITY VS. STATUS

07-20-2005

 

 

Written in the future, no doubt?

!

 

Jonathan

[Bruceswar]

did not even notice .. the article is nice overall but misses alot of points I think

[Leothelion]

I agree with everything Legend has written(Period) The only part she left out is the fact that PCGS has a large audience with lots a money who has cared less about what the coin looks like. The crowd KNOWS what's hot and they're not going away until the bull market crashes for coins! Then they'll go away and throw their money on something else!

I bought a registry collection that was number one in 2004! Out of the 52 coins, only 12 were accurately graded.

Another thing I want to point out, the true coin collector works much harder locating that fully struck high grade coin then some registry player who's only waiting for some pop top coin to come on the market so he can blow some more of his stupid money! The dividends for the hard work that I have in my collection is not going to pay off when I pass along my collection. Slowly but surely, I'm learning about who are the true coin collectors!

 

Leo

 

Edited for grammer usage!

[CTcollector]

The dividends for the hard work that I have in my collection is not going to pay off when I pass along my collection.

 

It will pay off. Natural selection will take place in the coin hobby and coins that are collector friendly (fresh, eye appealing, and technically sound) will rise to the top and will garner the most demand. Particularly, as more and more coins are compromised each year. The registry will be around for a while ( I use it and plan to continue) - but I have to imagine the craze of "spend anything for the highest piece of plastic regardless of quality" will die out. Individuals will eventually find new ways to boost their ego''s elsewhere. Coin collecting is about coins - all this other stuff will have its moment in the sun and ultimately the hobby will return to fundamentals. If you are selective and have great coins in your collection you are ahead of the game not behind it !

[KurtHorn]

Looks like another Legend rant to me. Of course we all strive to buy the best coins we can find for our Registry sets. Within any grade there will be PQ coins and dogs. But in this day and age where so much purchasing occurs over the net it can be darn hard to strive always for PQ. I have a 1948-D PCGS MS 66 Washington that is a terrible Omaha Bank Hoard dog. (I'm going to be looking for a better coin.) I even sent it back to PCGS for re-grade. They sent it back in the very same holder, which violates their own policy that every PCGS coin that is sent for re-grade gets cracked. I can't bring myself to sell this coin as a 66. I think I'll end up cracking it and selling it raw.

[HaydenTubbs]

In one case, we even purchased a top set that was so inferior, we sold it immediately and happily took a loss.

 

We can't say this enough: BUY THE COIN, NOT THE HOLDER! These words hold true-even in the wild registry races.

 

I'm surprised no one has pointed this out yet. It seems Legend isn't following their own advice and is buying registry coins sight-unseen for the holder, not the coin. Maybe they are just now learning this lesson.

 

Way to go Randy