I Found Some Old Coins And I Have A Few Questions

[mrwoogieman]

Greetings!

 

I am normally all about comic books, but recently I have discovered the wonders of coin collecting, and I thought this would be an appropriate place to pose a few urgent questions, if you would all be so kind as to indulge me, a novice in your field, it would be most appreciated.

 

1) I think that I have an error version of a Lincoln penny. It seems that instead of his usual bowtie, there is a cravat instead. Is this common?

 

2) I noticed that several quarters in my change jar have one side painted blue. Should these be preserved for historical purposes?

 

3) I wondered if someone might tell me whether the commanding General of the Revolutionary troops was considered a 'fancy boy' for having his long hair gathered with a bow, as depicted on the current US 25-cent piece? Does anyone know the color of the bow that was in his hair on the day that he modeled for the coin?

 

4) I have an old nickel that depicts a native American on its 'face' (apologies if that is not the correct terminology, I am a novice afterall). Is this the only example of a US coin that depicts a conquered and decimated enemy on it, and was it considered a tribute at the time it was issued or was it some sort of 'rub it in their noses' gesture?

 

5) I saved a dime that I placed on a railroad track when I was a boy that I retrieved after it was run over by a freight train (I didn't live near tracks with passenger trains), resulting in a stretched and oval coin. Apart from it's sentimental value, what return could I expect on this piece, what I would consider 'folk art'?

 

6) Is there an extensive market for privately issued tokens such as gaming tokens or the kind that are issued at various driving ranges? Is there a price guide for items such as these?

 

Thanks in advance.

[EZ_E]

 

 

 

[truthteller]

Welcome to the coin forum. This is a pleasant place to find lots of information. We hope you enjoy your visit.

 

 

 

 

"1) I think that I have an error version of a Lincoln penny. It seems that instead of his usual bowtie, there is a cravat instead. Is this common?

 

No, no Lincoln cents were issue with cravats. Probably an altered coin.

 

"2) I noticed that several quarters in my change jar have one side painted blue. Should these be preserved for historical purposes?

 

Painting a coin lowers the collectibility of coins and is a detriment.

 

"3) I wondered if someone might tell me whether the commanding General of the Revolutionary troops was considered a 'fancy boy' for having his long hair gathered with a bow, as depicted on the current US 25-cent piece? Does anyone know the color of the bow that was in his hair on the day that he modeled for the coin?

 

I believe the bow color was white. G. Washington was considered "straight".

 

"4) I have an old nickel that depicts a native American on its 'face' (apologies if that is not the correct terminology, I am a novice afterall). Is this the only example of a US coin that depicts a conquered and decimated enemy on it, and was it considered a tribute at the time it was issued or was it some sort of 'rub it in their noses' gesture?

 

The issuance of a US coin with a native American was considered of historical signficance. When the coin was issued, native Americans were considered assimilated, although decimated is an accurate description.

 

"5) I saved a dime that I placed on a railroad track when I was a boy that I retrieved after it was run over by a freight train (I didn't live near tracks with passenger trains), resulting in a stretched and oval coin. Apart from it's sentimental value, what return could I expect on this piece, what I would consider 'folk art'?

 

Actually, yes.There are coin collectors who value squashed coins, depending on the degree of mutilation. Many "squashed" coins were created for events such as the Lewis and Clark expo, Panama Pacific Expo, Seattle worlds fair, etc.

 

"6) Is there an extensive market for privately issued tokens such as gaming tokens or the kind that are issued at various driving ranges? Is there a price guide for items such as these?

 

Yes, I believe Krause issues several token priceguides, author Rulau. Some early ghost town tokens can sell in the multi hundreds of dollars. Gaming Tokens are a exonumia item and early gaming tokens in pristine condtion are very valuable.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

TRUTH

[BankNote1]

My best shot at some answers!?!

 

1. I am from Mississippi what the heck is a "cravat"? It is possible that cravat has been on Lincoln since 1909. I might have one on me as well? Does anyone know if cravats bite?

 

2. Saving blue quarters is OK. But if you come across any painted "red" get rid of them at once! The red ones were used in "Voodoo" ! If you keep any of the red ones a Zombie just might be on your door step one day!!!!! Verry bad...

 

3. The old fart on the quarter is wearing a powdered wig! For some crazy reason the Rev. Army thought powdered wigs would stop minnie balls better than steel helmets!!!

 

4. I wasn't sure if you wanted to rub the Indians nose or the Bison's? I guess that has to be left up to you. I can't speak for all Indians but the Choctaw's in Mississippi with the two 1000 room hotels, 20 restaurants, Casino's, world class golf, and a water park that would boggle the mind, don't look very conquered!

 

5. A "dime", we could only afford pennies when I was growing up! You must be from a wealthy family? The only time a coin flatened by a train has any value is if it was a "named" train that ran over it, like the "Queen and Cresant" or "The City of New Orleans"! Both of which ran through Mississippi! "The Empire Builder" is another great train name!

 

6. How can you keep gaming tokens! The Indians keep winning them all back???

As far as driving tokens, I guess it all comes down to how well you drive!

[mrwoogieman]

Thanks for the informative responses!

[XpipedreamR]

[Die Varieties]

Dang! I learned a lot today from this board. But -- please excuse me, I'm from SC and I still would like to know what a "cravat" is?

[JIM F.]

Definition of cravat

Cravat:

 

A neckcloth; a piece of silk, fine muslin, or other cloth, worn by men about the neck.

[Die Varieties]

Thanks jimbucks. I will sleep better now knowing that.

[cpm9ball]

Definition of cravat

Cravat:

 

A neckcloth; a piece of silk, fine muslin, or other cloth, worn by men about the neck.

 

 

............and they couldn't spell tie.

 

Chris

[the blob]

"4. I wasn't sure if you wanted to rub the Indians nose or the Bison's? I guess that has to be left up to you. I can't speak for all Indians but the Choctaw's in Mississippi with the two 1000 room hotels, 20 restaurants, Casino's, world class golf, and a water park that would boggle the mind, don't look very conquered!"

 

Disclosure: I am about 1/256th Choctaw.

 

The Choctaw's were never really "conquered" per se, although they did make the mistake of siding with the South in the Civil War. The Choctaw were sort of the Jews of the Indian world (very big on trading, business, etc. -- I don't mean that in an anti-semitic way) and, relatively speaking, did well when they stayed in the South and those who "left" for Oklahoma did well financially (as far as Indians could do, at least pre-casino). I believe they brought plenty of bagels and nosh for the Trail of Tears trip to Oklahoma and may have survived a little better than others. Aside from that and smallpox, etc. the white man didn't kill all that many Choctaw. They were good at avoiding the really bloody conflicts and due to not having the military strength of, let's say, the Cherokees, pretty much went with the flow.

 

At least that's what my research taught me.

 

Sounds like the makings of a Mel Brooks movie, no?

[John Martinez]

The rest of the stuff I can not comment on. The colored quarters I can. Where I grew up, there were something known as "bar room quarters". To stimulate people putting more quarters into the juke box, the bar owner would put pre determined color painted quarters in the juke box. When the song ran out, hopefully some of the patrons wanted to hear more so they would then put their own quarters in.

 

Since the bar owner received a commission from the take, and since the vending machine people were in on this, they would give all of the agreed colored quarters back and not include in the vending company's take.

 

Again, the rest, I am not aware of.... bar room quarters.... I know them well. Premium? Only if you are the bar room owner.

[pendragon1998]

 

When the coin was issued, native Americans were considered assimilated, although decimated is an accurate description.

 

TRUTH

 

Um, not the TRUTH "Decimated" means to reduce in numbers by 1/10. Well, it used to until education went down the toilet.

 

From Dictionary.com:

deci·mation n.

 

Usage Note: Decimate originally referred to the killing of every tenth person, a punishment used in the Roman army for mutinous legions. Today this meaning is commonly extended to include the killing of any large proportion of a group. Sixty-six percent of the Usage Panel accepts this extension in the sentence The Jewish population of Germany was decimated by the war, even though it is common knowledge that the number of Jews killed was much greater than a tenth of the original population. However, when the meaning is further extended to include large-scale destruction other than killing, as in The supply of fresh produce was decimated by the nuclear accident at Chernobyl, only 26 percent of the Panel accepts the usage.

 

 

 

2. Saving blue quarters is OK. But if you come across any painted "red" get rid of them at once! The red ones were used in "Voodoo" !

 

Are you kidding, or are the red ones really used in Voodoo? Because I actually just found and spent one painted red.

[Narmuriel]

Yeah! Watch the person who got the red quarter for the next week. They will come down with bubonic plague or something similar.

 

Honestly, I dont know, but that's pretty creepy. If they do, I would love to know why they use Washington quaters.

[John Martinez]

Red was the favorite color for the bar room quarters as described earlier.

 

 

 

I did grow up in New Orleans, though, so .... Voo Doo

[TomB]

Quarters and dimes were often painted so that they could be identified as the "seed" money used to start restaurant and bar music players. It has long been believed that if a music player is on, when you sit down at a booth in a diner or at a bar, that folks are much more likely to continue to feed it quarters or dimes than they are to feed it money if it is not playing when they initially sit. These machines could be rented, and those who worked on, updated or cleared out the machine to record the money would then use "seed" money to start the music playing and they might leave more money at the restaurant or bar so that the owner or manager could start the music when customers were likely to enter a booth or the bar. Typically, the money is found painted in the primary colors of red, blue or yellow. By having the coins painted, they could always be identified as those used to start the machines and would not be counted as income.

[Narmuriel]

Is there any basis in Voodoo for coins painted red though?

 

I understand the seed money use, and think that was an incredibly smart thing to do.

[John Martinez]

Is there any basis in Voodoo for coins painted red though?

 

I understand the seed money use, and think that was an incredibly smart thing to do.

 

I'm not aware of any. I read that post as tongue in cheek. I only added to the fire with my statement, also tongue in cheek. I was born and raised in New Orleans, I was aware of Voo Doo but only aware of red quarters as seed money or as we called them "bar room quarters". In the dry counties of the Bible Belt, they call it seed money. In New Orleans with a bar on every corner, we called them bar room quarters. It's all relative, and the results intended were the same. Get the patrons to spend their money.

 

I mostly came across red during my lifetime. Recently I came across a black one.

[HaydenTubbs]

Interesting,I got a quarter with a red painted reverse in change a few months back,didn't think anything of it...

[mrwoogieman]

This is most informative, thank you all!

[Coin]

So we have 'nick-amated' injuns in ties tossing voodoo quarters from railcars because George the 'first' of America wore a wig to a gambling joint?

[MAULEMALL]

So we have 'nick-amated' injuns in ties tossing voodoo quarters from railcars because George the 'first' of America wore a wig to a gambling joint?