What's worse than a high-ranking registry set with no pics or descriptions?

[gpnyc]

That's boring enough....

 

How about a high-ranking set that is "obscured?" IMO, these should fall to the bottom of the rankings regardless of the point score. They are just a waste of bandwidth.

[CTcollector]

I think there are basically two camps on why people have registry sets.

 

One is for pure enjoyment and organizational purposes. Individuals can "look" at their coins whenever they want without going to the safety deposit box. They can share with family, friends, and fellow collectors without any security risk. Or they may just want to keep track of their collection for insurance and organizational purposes.

 

The second is more associated with competitive purposes. An individual may be looking to build the all time or current finest set of a particular series. They may be doing this for personal collecting preference or maybe to profit down the road when they sell their top rated set.

 

The later group of individuals may put themselves at a competitive disadvantage if they list the details of their set. That is the person who may be competing with them will have the ability to make better decisions on what to buy, sell, etc,,,to close ground on the front runner. Additionally, dealers (not all - just the slime balls and parasites) can take advantage of the front runner if they know what they need to complete or considerably enhance their set. I have heard many times on how a collector needed 1 or 2 low pop coin to complete a registry set and a dealer would offer that coin to the individual for 2-3X its fair market value. If refused at that price level, the coin would get burried elsewhere for cheaper.

 

So although I personally subscribe to the first camp of building a registry set for enjoyment and sharing purposes, I completely respect why some of the higher ranking registry sets may want to keep their sets obscured from the general collector and dealer community.

[supertooth]

I must admit that I have to agree pretty much with CTcollector. Six years ago my son wanted to collect Morgans. I tried to talk him out of it for a lot of reasons. But he did it and I was given no choice but to try and help him save his shirt. He was on Ebay constantly. Dad look at this number---check this one ---look at that one. So finally I was hooked too and I went off on my own to "finish my Walkers" while my son did his thing with the Morgans. Year or two went by---my son got into Proof Franklins---Dad was still doing his thing with the Walkers. Another year or so goes by. My son was off on another tangent while dad was still doing Walkers. I had been buying "raw" coins off of Ebay. Now I started to slab them at NGC. Another year or so goes by. My son has bought a CC20 gold piece and now likes 3 cent pieces. Dad is still buying Walkers. Still sending coins to NGC. Finally my son is impressed with what dad has done. Wants me to start a Registry set. Dad will not do it but still buys "raw" off of Ebay. Son bothering dad again to put the Walker set into a Registry Set. I refuse for many reasons but the most prominent reason was that I did not want anyone to see what I was doing. Assembling a set of XF--Unc coins---totally original---starting from 1916--34. Not the other way around like almost everybody else did their sets. Most everybody started with the later Walkers [1934--47]. I wanted noone to see how hard it was to create that set I was working on. And especially did not want to attract attention on Ebay---so nobody else would bid against me---anymore than was already going to do it anyhow. Call me "PARANOID" if you want to but I genuinely believe that people will be against you and will bid against you---even in XF--unc. sets---just to keep you from acquiring a coin that you need. I finally agreed to put it on when my 17D Rev coin [last coin that I needed] was sitting safely down at NGC. I have "all" the coins up to the 33S and do not feel that there will be any trouble from here on out. If you care to look, it is listed under Doc"s Walkers. But I have all the "hard" ones now---so I do not mind showing everybody what I did. Tom B encouraged me to put pictures on so I had my wife and daughter help me to do that. So it was never that I did not want to show them to everyone. It was that I wanted to finish them to where I did not have to worry about any competition. I cannot tell you how hard it is to acquire a totally unmessed with "early" Walker in XF--unc. grades. Even harder to get NGC to slab them at times. They are truly "rare" coins. If you check out the PCGS and NGC population reports, you will then understand. After 6 years I have now finished my original "fine" set as well as finished a VF--XF set and have the Registry set. I figure I have bought about 1 to 1 1/2 coins per month over these 75 months. That is about 125--150 total coins bought out of looking at approximately 200,000--250,000 coins on Ebay. I am a patient and dedicated man----most of the time. Bob [supertooth]

[CTcollector]

Hi Supertooth - I viewed your walker collection and although I do not have an appreciation for circulated coins I do admire originality combined with technical appeal and I will say your set has both. Congratulations ! Your set indeed has the feel of a discrimating eye and patience. One day, hopefully not to far out in the distant future, coin collecting will be about coins again and originality combined with technical merits will be better appreciated by the masses.

[supertooth]

Thanks CT and I do appreciate your kind words. I have many Walkers that are graded in higher grades that I will not put into my Registry Set [All in PCGS or ANACS holders]. They just do not meet the standard of the set yet are all nice coins. I tend to "tell my stories" because, being older, I feel that I have some experiences to share. I enjoy helping others to try and keep them from making major errors. I see so many of the younger people----so full of enthusiastic ideas--- either being duped from the start or led down an incorrect path. You take my Walkers. Most new collectors would buy a cleaned or dipped "all white" coin rather than an Xf or Au piece that was original. Why?? Because it "appears" to look better. It is shiny and pretty and new looking whereas the XF or AU piece usually does not have a tremendous amount of luster. And most of the dealers would not discourage them from doing this! Many times they would pay an "unc" price for a coin whose value was far less. My XF--Unc set was both to show that "it could be done" with "original" coins but also that it could be done "on a budget". At the time I started, my funds were not unlimited. If they had been, I would have gone back to collecting CC20 dollar gold pieces---as I had done in my youth. But, at the time, Walkers presented the challenge but not the "extreme" outpouring of funds. It was a labor of love from my youth to finish my set. It ended with my owning three sets---each has its own beauty. But also it was a "knowledge" thing. I could not tell an Au58 coin from an MS63 coin. I still have several slabbed coins that I bought "raw"---at Au prices or less---which, when I sent them for certification, thought they had a chance at MS63. I did not really understand about "rub". After 6 years I am still learning about higher graded Walkers. My point here is only to say that----if I have still got a lot to learn---where are the "average collectors" with money to spend? Can they look at "any" supposed MS Walker and really know whether it is MS or not?? Even in a slab?? Do they know if the coin has been dipped or "conserved" before it was placed into the slab? And who wants to buy that 1919S or 1921S Walker in the MS63 holder for thousands of dollars only to find out when you go to sell it that it really is a cleaned or dipped or treated or hairlined coin that may have slipped through a major TPG service---on purpose?? I try to tell people that it is easier to "NOT" get fooled with what I collect than it is to "trust" anothers judgement in the higher grades. And how many "average collectors" really know about or even more "UNDERSTAND" hairlines? Or "SOFT STRIKES"?? I surmise not very many. And, if this is true of Walkers, it is true of most---if not all---series. You got to buy the books and read them and learn. You have to ask questions by the boatload----and learn. And you have to look at thousands of coins----and learn some more. And then you still will never know enough. I hope that just a few young people will read my threads and think---Maybe this old guy is right. And go out and buy a few appropriate books instead of a questionable coin. Bob [supertooth]

[Morgannut]

I think obsured sets are one of the biggest disadvantages of the registry. I have no problem with assigning points as long as they are posted as non competative sets at the bottem of the list.

[Oldtrader3]

I do not subsribe to the theory of registry competition at any price! People that behave that way are in a death spiral to an early grave or the poor house unless they have many more resources then most of us mere mortals. Very few of us have the income, time or other resources to worry too much about where our sets rank or who bothers to compete against them. This attitude about my sets frees me from worry about showing them in the registries.

 

In the past several years, I have had several sets slip from #1 ranking down to somewhere in the top 15. I just don't really worry about this circumstance. I want no part of competition at any price for a single registry coin! Plus, unless I suddenly have a truckload of money fall from the sky, these ranking adjustments are inevitable! Having said that, describing and showing pictures of my sets poses no threat to my ego, my bank account or the worth of my sets. So, why get in a snit about it? However, please feel free to go broke while competing against my sets or anyone else's that you wish to compete with.

[Strat-migration]

There's a lot being said here I agree with. I registered a couple of my sets to share them, and to show them. They're fairly modest, so I'm not worried about competition. I don't publish my email address because I don't want any overtly expensive solicitations to come my way. I figure, as supertooth has practiced, that patience is the proven path to success in building a set. Patience to find the right coin at the right price at the right moment. It does take looking at a ton of coins.

 

I understand the issues of competition. If you want to be numero uno you must protect your set. This involves knowing what your competitors are doing, and what dealers have that may help your set. I think the strategy and effort is interesting, but I'm not one to worry about it. So, I guess if you're a numero uno, pass me by! Aw shucks.

[XXX-migration]

Well said: CTcollector

 

[XXX-migration]

I would feel that many obsecured set would be opened if it weren't for the fact that all the coin registration numbers are available to the public. And if you have PCGS coins listed they may end up in someone else's set that you have to do battle over with PCGS just proving ownership of a coin you already posses or have made. Just my thoughts.

 

Another note: May people like to work on their sets and use filler coins until the coin of choice is made or becomes available, so keeping it closed until the point they want to display it is their choice. I have many set "in the work's" and I chose to keep many closed until....finished to a point of my satisfaction.

 

Just my 2 cents........................

[Morgannut]

I would feel that many obsecured set would be opened if it weren't for the fact that all the coin registration numbers are available to the public. And if you have PCGS coins listed they may end up in someone else's set that you have to do battle over with PCGS just proving ownership of a coin you already posses or have made. Just my thoughts.

 

Another note: May people like to work on their sets and use filler coins until the coin of choice is made or becomes available, so keeping it closed until the point they want to display it is their choice. I have many set "in the work's" and I chose to keep many closed until....finished to a point of my satisfaction.

 

Just my 2 cents........................

 

XXX--I see your point of view but why display your set if you're not displaying it?

[BankNote1]

I use the Registry sets to keep up with my few coins. I will never have a "top Notch" set but listing the coins with photos in the registry makes a nice inventory! I wish sometimes that NGC would add ANACS coins and it would save me sending in coins for crossover. Most grade the same anyway, IMO...

[TomB]

The way that CTcollector and supertooth have gone about the Registry is the way that it should be done, in my opinion, by most people. Similarly, I also have a Registry set that I know will never be uber-ranked yet the coins are listed, mostly imaged and largely described simply to share with others.

 

Those of you who have not gone through supertooth's WLH set, do yourself a favor and look through the set to see what studied dedication looks like.

[jtryka]

I agree, I've put some effort into the photos and descriptions of my Saint set, even though its ranking only seems to go down as more sets are registered (at one time I think I was #1, but I was the only one registered!). I know some folks may not have the time, and that lack of time looks different to different people. My type set has limited photos and fewer descriptions, but it's ranked like #70. For some super collectors their secondary collecting interests might still result in a set in the top 5, so I guess I can understand both sides. Still I would prefer to see at least some photos in these super sets!

[TomB]

You've just reminded me that about 20% of my set has no descriptions, but I think they all have images. At one point my set was also number four or five and has since plummeted somewhere in the mid-twenties. That's okay, I'm never even going to finish it!

[Oldtrader3]

One statement about obscure sets does not hold water very well. If someone wishes to pirate a coin certification number from one of my sets, I have two things working in my favor. They are: I have the coin in my possession and I have the receipt for it's purchase.

[ronday]

What worse, when they don't even let you see what coins are in the collection!!!!!!!

[ronday]

What year is that 2 cents? Is it RB or B. If it is proof I might be interested!

[rons]

After reading the pros and cons of this issue I would like to suggest splitting the categories in two. Obscured can compete unwatched in a special category while the rest of us can ogle the beautiful coins that are in so many of the collections posted. I compete with myself in the building of sets and altho I am new to this site I am enjoying both the collecting and the wisdom that is shared in these message boards. Thanks to all for sharing their insight and opinions.

[HaydenTubbs]

nice toner

[papag]

Just a 2 cent note on why I myself do not put descriptions down. Maybe I just don't feel I'm qualified enough yet to give the coin a proper description. My knowledge has been growing over the years but to do justice to the coin, maybe not. As for the photos, my scanner leaves green streaks on alot of the Proof coins especially and again it does no justice to the coin. Just my two cents worth.

Ken

papag

[Architecht]

Personally, I think commentary that's personal - where did you get it, what appealed to you, how did it fit into your collecting philosophy - is more interesting than simple descriptions of the surfaces. Uploading a picture goes much further to describe the surfaces. Of course, it's always nice if you can provide some numismatic insight about that coin's mintage and history to spice things up, but that can be added later. Personal commentary is an excellent basis for descriptions, I think.

[CTcollector]

Just a 2 cent note on why I myself do not put descriptions down. Maybe I just don't feel I'm qualified enough yet to give the coin a proper description. My knowledge has been growing over the years but to do justice to the coin, maybe not. As for the photos, my scanner leaves green streaks on alot of the Proof coins especially and again it does no justice to the coin. Just my two cents worth.

Ken

papag

 

To quote NIKE - "just do it". Once you get it down on one coin, the rest will come easy.....

[RoelSports]

Thanks for sharing you knowledge!scr

[MikeKing]

A great post! I used to shun the whole registry idea, until I realized what a great asset it can be to myself (like CTcollector said about viewing your own collection) and for anyone who wants to look and appreciate (or not appreciate). The more relaxed I become about it, the more freedom I'm finding in what can be done with it, and that's a nice thing. I think if I started to look at ranking, it would take all the fun out of it. Firstly, I did look at Supertooth's collection and this is indeed, a great collection, and really quite unsurpassable in terms of what went into it. That was very inspiring. Secondly, I don't have the money to buy MS Bust Halves, so I can't compete for rank, plain and simple. Thirdly, there is no value to looking at different sets and saying this one is better than that one, it's really subjective and illusory to a degree. And honestly, I'm just beginning to learn after all these years what collecting is all about...as defined by myself, as I learn from what others have accomplished. The ability to discriminate what you accept as value.

[EZ_E]

A great post! I used to shun the whole registry idea, until I realized what a great asset it can be to myself (like CTcollector said about viewing your own collection) and for anyone who wants to look and appreciate (or not appreciate).

 

I mirror that statement. I used to scoff at the whole idea but I find it convenient to view my collection since I am separated from it by 1150 miles. I am a recent participant in the NGC registry and have had nothing but very positive opinions about it. Dena was extremely helpful in posting some obscure, PCGS autographed slabs and I find the images extremely useful in certain posts.

 

I give the whole experience 's!

[julayne1-migration]

HOW AND WHERE SHOULD I SELL MY SET?

[EZ_E]

HOW AND WHERE SHOULD I SELL MY SET?

 

You can try The Marketplace on these boards or on ebay.

 

Are they certified or raw? Most raw short sets are infamous for sliders, so photos would be a necessity.

[MikeKing]

I think another reason, or reasons for people not posting photos or having an obscure set would include their not wanting anyone to say that their MS65 is really an MS64 and that it was over-graded, or that their MS65 is a PQ64 or that their MS65 is an MS63 or if it's an NGC65, someone will say it would never grade that way at PCGS or that it's an ugly coin no matter what the grade. Stuff like that. There's loads of derrogatory [embarrassing lack of self control] that people will say about someone elses coins, no matter how high quality the coin is.

[WaxonWaxov]

If someone wishes to pirate a coin certification number from one of my sets, I have two things working in my favor. They are: I have the coin in my possession and I have the receipt for it's purchase.

 

Exactly.

 

Question: The Registry does not allow the same coin via it's cert number to appear in the registry sets of more than one person, does it?

 

If so then they need to fire their database guru and hire me.