1971 Quarter Double Stamped Olive Branch 2 2

[markedmoneytech]

Hello Everyone!  I hope my inquiry finds you well. Has anyone else found doubled dies like this 1971 Washington quarter? 

 

 

 I've examined enough doubled dies to be fairly confident that's what this is. 

If I were to list it via an Ebay auction as a rare variety quarter, what would you start the bidding at if you were in my position?   

 

I know it's not the most appealing specimen, but surely still an interesting one to chat about.   Thank you for your time and attention!

Best Regards, markedmoney.tech

 

[Sandon]

   Welcome to the NGC chat board.

    I don't think that your 1971 quarter exhibits a doubled die reverse. The image below the branch, though interesting, is too shallow and localized. I also note shallow, shelf-like doubling on some of the lettering, which is likely either strike doubling or doubling that originated in the master hub that was used to make some 1971 quarter reverse dies. It doesn't match any variety listed on NGC VarietyPlus, doubleddie.com, or Variety Vista. See Washington Quarters (1932-1998) | VarietyPlus® | NGC (ngccoin.com),   https://www.doubleddie.com/2019558.html,  http://www.varietyvista.com/09b WQ Vol 2/DDRs 1971.htm for known varieties.  See also Double Dies vs. Machine Doubling | NGC (ngccoin.com).    

[JKK]

Not special. Not a DDR.

[markedmoneytech]

I'm curious as to what makes you say it isn't when it very well could be one. It is very obviously raised and rounded,not flattened. The doubling also resembles that on the South Dakota DDR or even the 2012 Denali quarter.

Granted the doubling on those coins is towards the middle of the coin, it's still obvious that it's not impossible to show up on other areas of a coin.   I'd like to know if anyone has found something similar in their own collections, that they may have otherwise overlooked because they only focused on the doubled dies that had already been listed.  I've visited all the sites listed above already.   I've also made discoveries on coins, which I kept and stored before they were listed on those sites because I knew what I'd found then too.   

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Edited January 9 by markedmoneytech

[markedmoneytech]

On 1/9/2024 at 8:44 AM, Sandon said:

   Welcome to the NGC chat board.

    I don't think that your 1971 quarter exhibits a doubled die reverse. The image below the branch, though interesting, is too shallow and localized. I also note shallow, shelf-like doubling on some of the lettering, which is likely either strike doubling or doubling that originated in the master hub that was used to make some 1971 quarter reverse dies. It doesn't match any variety listed on NGC VarietyPlus, doubleddie.com, or Variety Vista. See Washington Quarters (1932-1998) | VarietyPlus® | NGC (ngccoin.com),   https://www.doubleddie.com/2019558.html,  http://www.varietyvista.com/09b WQ Vol 2/DDRs 1971.htm for known varieties.  See also Double Dies vs. Machine Doubling | NGC (ngccoin.com).    

Thank you for your kind welcome.  I disagree that it's too shallow and localized.  It's on a portion of the stem, just like the doubling behind the sheep's neck on the Denali quarter. 

[markedmoneytech]

On 1/9/2024 at 9:41 AM, JKK said:

Not special. Not a DDR.

Let's agree to disagree.  It's a never before noticed DDR. 

[“”]

On 1/9/2024 at 11:21 AM, markedmoneytech said:

Let's agree to disagree.  It's a never before noticed DDR. 

If you believe it is a DDR. Send it in to a TPG for certification. It would sell at a higher price if certified by an independent grading organization.

Good luck.

[Greenstang]

If it is not listed on Variety Plus, it won’t be recognized by a TPG

Edited January 9 by Greenstang

[Sandon]

   

On 1/9/2024 at 11:24 AM, Simple Collector said:

If you believe it is a DDR. Send it in to a TPG for certification.

    Actually, it is unlikely that a third-party grading service would attribute a previously unlisted die variety, unless it were a very significant one, which I don't think this is. NGC generally does not attribute die varieties that aren't listed on VarietyPlus, which excludes many lesser varieties on post-1836 U.S. coins, including the purported Mount Rushmore ("South Dakota") and Denali doubled dies to which the OP provided links (to his own website, without attribution references). See What is a Variety? | NGC (ngccoin.com), America the Beautiful Quarters | VarietyPlus® | NGC (ngccoin.com).

   This coin could be submitted to CONECA for possible attribution. https://conecaonline.org/attribution-services/. If CONECA agrees that it is a DDR or other die variety, it will be assigned a number and might be attributable by ANACS, which I understand will generally attribute listed varieties.

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

Thanks @Sandon!  I was just going to suggest submitting to CONECA.  

"When the opinions don't fit, you must submit."

-Johnny Cochran, Lawyer & Numismatist.

[cobymordet]

In an effort to break the monotony of intellectual discourse, I have never found myself to be that guy that points out that another guys' "thingy" is kinda small, but is this alleged "thingy" large enough to be seen through a 10x view or less?  And, is it possible that being a Master Hub Doubling issue affecting nearly 4 billion quarters, this "thingy" could be an aspect of that?

 

[markedmoneytech]

I appreciate everyone for sharing your insight.  Thank you all for your time and attention. 

[EagleRJO]

On 1/9/2024 at 9:44 AM, Sandon said:

It doesn't match any variety listed on NGC VarietyPlus, doubleddie.com, or Variety Vista.    

On 1/9/2024 at 7:21 AM, markedmoneytech said:

If I were to list it via an Ebay auction as a rare variety quarter, what would you start the bidding at if you were in my position? 

Unfortunately even if that is a true doubled die it wouldn't be worth much at all without matching a previously attributed variety, which it does not as Sandon noted, and it is relatively minor.

Sites like Etsy/eBay are full of coins with borderline worthless machine doubling held out as doubled dies without any attribution, where many buyers simply can't tell the difference.  And even if attributed, selling it raw would likely not go for very much from looking at recent completed listings for similar items with minor attributed doubling.

If you truly believe it's a legit doubled die you may want to submit it to CONECA as noted.  But I think that would be more for personal satisfaction of having found a previously unknown variety for a 1971 quarter, however unlikely, as that would probably not increase the value to anything really worth selling or submitting to a TPG if eventually recognized as it is so minor.

Edited January 10 by EagleRJO

[Henri Charriere]

I have a simple rule of thumb when it comes to "doubled-die".coins, which will undoubtedly infuriate some members:

Unlike the famed 1955 Lincoln cent which needs no explanation or directions or arrows, if it does not fully involve the obverse or reverse, or occupy a significant slice of the proverbial pie, or worse, if it has to be pointed out to me, sorry, now we're splitting hairs.  Ideally, you should be able to hand a disinterested party and ask them if they see anything odd. If you have to provide me with a road map, you've lost me.  This, of course, does not apply to related phenomena and the damage which results therefrom. If you feel constrained to tell me what it is I am supposed to see, we're off to a bad start. Now, if you hand me a '78 Morgan dollar, without being told I will instinctively count the tail feathers. Likewise, if you show me an 1863 Indian Head cent, I will note the color is off and the planchet used was thicker than usual.  The Red Book is your friend and an indispensable guide. Familiarize yourself with its contents and keep it close at hand. It will become the keystone of your numismatic library. Good luck in your hunting!

[markedmoneytech]

On 1/9/2024 at 8:46 PM, Henri Charriere said:

I have a simple rule of thumb when it comes to "doubled-die".coins, which will undoubtedly infuriate some members:

Unlike the famed 1955 Lincoln cent which needs no explanation or directions or arrows, if it does not fully involve the obverse or reverse, or occupy a significant slice of the proverbial pie, or worse, if it has to be pointed out to me, sorry, now we're splitting hairs.  Ideally, you should be able to hand a disinterested party and ask them if they see anything odd. If you have to provide me with a road map, you've lost me.  This, of course, does not apply to related phenomena and the damage which results therefrom. If you feel constrained to tell me what it is I am supposed to see, we're off to a bad start. Now, if you hand me a '78 Morgan dollar, without being told I will instinctively count the tail feathers. Likewise, if you show me an 1863 Indian Head cent, I will note the color is off and the planchet used was thicker than usual.  The Red Book is your friend and an indispensable guide. Familiarize yourself with its contents and keep it close at hand. It will become the keystone of your numismatic library. Good luck in your hunting!

What do you suppose it is from, if not a doubled die?  Also, you were right.  I got it in front of as many eyes as possible before tossing it back into circulation.  

[R'CoinsWild]

Basically, if you are on this forum asking questions like you are new, they won't take you seriously.  Hence the newbie title. It's not that they aren't helpful or trying. It's just that this isn't the place to ask if you have discovered a new error.  I'm saying this in a kind way, don't get me wrong, but a error even if so, would not increase value.  It's not new collectors that know what increases a coins value and errors per say. In the beginning a lot can be exciting looking for answers hoping you find something unique.  In my experience, keep your questions to straight answer type of inquiry, not a opinion or possibility of. And have tough skin. When you think you have something unique and rare in the beginning, most likely new collectors don't.  It's a process. Keep at it! Keep asking questions. You will get to where the experienced collectors are. It takes this type of experience and many failures to gain knowledge.  Trust me. If I would be right about all the rare coins I thought were going to make me 6 figures, I'd have about a billion in the bank. It is humbling but a gain in knowledge searching for answers and the right path for the day you do find a special and valuable coin. 

Not sure if anyone had given you the respectable and kind feedback such as im going to give you. But, if it was doubled, then it would be on the letters or other areas of significance. If it is doubled on the branch, even still, would not be enough to be something collectors are looking for. I hope this helps and my time responding is well received and appreciated.  

Enjoy the hunt!!!

[markedmoneytech]

On 6/29/2024 at 7:55 AM, R'CoinsWild said:

Basically, if you are on this forum asking questions like you are new, they won't take you seriously.  Hence the newbie title. It's not that they aren't helpful or trying. It's just that this isn't the place to ask if you have discovered a new error.  I'm saying this in a kind way, don't get me wrong, but a error even if so, would not increase value.  It's not new collectors that know what increases a coins value and errors per say. In the beginning a lot can be exciting looking for answers hoping you find something unique.  In my experience, keep your questions to straight answer type of inquiry, not a opinion or possibility of. And have tough skin. When you think you have something unique and rare in the beginning, most likely new collectors don't.  It's a process. Keep at it! Keep asking questions. You will get to where the experienced collectors are. It takes this type of experience and many failures to gain knowledge.  Trust me. If I would be right about all the rare coins I thought were going to make me 6 figures, I'd have about a billion in the bank. It is humbling but a gain in knowledge searching for answers and the right path for the day you do find a special and valuable coin. 

Not sure if anyone had given you the respectable and kind feedback such as im going to give you. But, if it was doubled, then it would be on the letters or other areas of significance. If it is doubled on the branch, even still, would not be enough to be something collectors are looking for. I hope this helps and my time responding is well received and appreciated.  

Enjoy the hunt!!!

Hi, thank you for the kind response.  I'm not worried about what other people think of me for questioning anybody, especially authority.  Learning is a lifelong experience.  When elders stop asking questions, then they've stopped learning and their time on earth is finished.  I note the anomalies with arrows for the young future generations of collectors.   I myself work part time at a coin shop and I blog about the unique anomalies I've found on coins online.  I read and listen to what a lot of people in coin forums online have to say, because famed numismatists such as Fred Weinberg and Mike Diamond also frequent these various online forums.   I've gotten better at not taking the behaviors of others towards me personally, and I certainly don't wish to offend anyone, so my apologies to anyone I may have offended.  I'm truly grateful for all the forums online.  Thank you for your time too!  Check out this DDO & DDR 1978 Morgan Dollar with 8 tail feathers.   It doesn't belong to me, but I detected it for the person I found it for.  I also found profound die clash markings on another one.  Examining coins makes me happy.  It's quiet and peaceful and the reward is knowing what I found, and not necessarily making a sale.   Thanks again for your time.  Hope you like the photos. 

[Henri Charriere]

🐓:   @ " " :  re your Jan. 9th post, upthread...

What is the correct pronunciation of your name?