Guessing Game, With a Difference 1 1

[VKurtB]

On 3/8/2023 at 2:07 PM, Sandon said:

For the same reason, it's getting harder and harder to find decent uncertifi

I’ve noticed this too, but NOT east of the Appalachians. Get past the last PA Turnpike tunnel and it’s a whole different numismatic planet. 

[Sandon]

On 3/8/2023 at 5:35 PM, VKurtB said:

SLABS ARE NOT PROTECTIVE, PERIOD! Let’s stop that pernicious myth (lie)  right here and right now!

  I'd say that certified holders are not more protective than some traditional holders, particularly lucite holders and boards and other inert plastic holders such as "Snap-Tites" and capsules.  I've had coins, including brilliant uncirculated and proof coins in all metals, remain unchanged in these holders for decades.  Mylar flips and albums are generally satisfactory as well, except I've had the parts of coins near the open end of a mylar flip tone after a while, and you have to beware of thicker coins in albums that could rub against the top slide develop slide marks.

[VKurtB]

On 3/8/2023 at 4:54 PM, Sandon said:

  I'd say that certified holders are not more protective than some traditional holders, particularly lucite holders and boards and other inert plastic holders such as "Snap-Tites" and capsules.  I've had coins, including brilliant uncirculated and proof coins in all metals, remain unchanged in these holders for decades.  Mylar flips and albums are generally satisfactory as well, except I've had the parts of coins near the open end of a mylar flip tone after a while, and you have to beware of thicker coins in albums that could rub against the top slide develop slide marks.

I have the first-person evidence. Round capsules without foam gaskets are the most protective system I’ve used, followed by Eagle brand holders, Capital Plastics, NGC holders, PCGS holders, and bringing up BY FAR the worst - old small soap bar ANACS holders. In my experience, well stapled Mylar 2x2’s with cardboard frames have beaten ALL the TPGS holders. A crummy staple job ruins those. 

Edited March 9, 2023 by VKurtB

[Hoghead515]

I like buying certified coins for different reasons. One is it will be easier for my family to deal with when I die off. Another reason it gives me a decent ideal of what Im buying. Getting an experts opinion on a coin is a big help when Im limited to buying online. Id love to be able to go out and buy coins in person but I just cant. Its easy to tell everyone to do so if you have the time and money but if you didnt you would realize how hard it is to do that. Its almost impossible for me. Only places to buy from close to home are pawn shops and they want 3 times the value of what the coins are worth. They are also small pawn shops and have a very limited supply to choose from. I just cant get away from my job also.  When Im laid off and do got the time Im to broke.  Maybe when I retire one of these days things may be different but for now Im stuck in this position. And I just dont have the money. I love where I live but its been a curse financially. I grew up in a below poverty family and never had no inheritance or anything like that to put me in a better position where I can keep money. Its took me my whole life to pay for my house and keep it up and raise my kids starting from scratch. There are no big money jobs around here and theres no way I could ever afford to move somewhere where there was better paying jobs. When you have to live from one paycheck to the next you cant just hop on a plane and fly out somewhere and buy a coin. Its also hard to drive somewhere very far when you dont have a vechicle dependable enough to barely make it to work. Im not complaining or trying to get sympathy, Im just trying to show a better understanding why some of us have to buy online.  Trying to paint a picture that helps them realize why buying in person isnt possible for some. That dosent mean I shouldnt be able to enjoy a hobby I love because I cant just jump on a plane and go where the best coins in the world are. Buying online made the hobby better for several collectors like me.  Ive had a few bad experiences buying raws coins online. Ive ended up with a few problem coins that I couldnt see in the pictures. Buying certified coins has helped me prevent that alot. Ive ended up with a few I didnt care much about but Ive had more positive experiences than bad ones buying certified coins online. My collection isnt the best but Ive put together one Im very proud of that my kids will be very grateful to inherit.  I really love my collection. Its not to bad for a collection put together from coins bought online.  Ive got a few very nice coins I was fortunate enough to get. Ive had some very wonderful coins given to me as gifts from some of the best friends Ive ever got the chance to know in it as well.   Like my good friend @zadok said, everyone is a winner in collecting however they have the means to do so and however the want to choose. I really like the registry also. I love looking through it at everyones coins on display. If I cant own them myself it gives me great enjoyment getting to see my good friends display some of the finest coins out there in their sets. I think the registry is a good thing for the ones who like it. If you dont like it then thats fine to. Thats the great thing about this hobby. Theres many ways to collect and every way is a winner if thats what the person collecting  enjoys. 

 

[ldhair]

 It's not my place to tell others what and how to collect. Just have fun and do what you enjoy.

[zadok]

On 3/8/2023 at 5:33 PM, Coinbuf said:

In all honesty while that is why many of us are here; there are one or two here that do in fact want to change what and how others collect because those one or two individuals think they know it all and the only "right" way is their way, the premise of this thread pretty much demonstrates that.

...i understand ur point but i try to mostly direct my opinions n comments to the general populace here unless its a direct response to a specific question or coin, but generally speaking in collecting anything its up to the collector to determine what is right or correct for them, of course everyone can probably learn some do's n dont's from other collectors but as to what n how to collect its a wide open hobby as it should be....

[VKurtB]

On 3/9/2023 at 7:43 AM, ldhair said:

 It's not my place to tell others what and how to collect. Just have fun and do what you enjoy.

And yet one of THE MOST attended talks at the ANA show was EXACTLY ON THAT  - what and how to collect. And I’m NEVER going to stop. This kum bay yah, do your own thing stuff is idiotic. There are standards. If you CHOOSE to ignore basic standards, it is YOU who leave behind befuddled heirs who will be struggling to not get taken. 

Edited March 9, 2023 by VKurtB

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

Why is it idiotic?  Why should someone not buy whatever makes them happy?  Because of the potential loss of money?  What if I liked golf, boating, skiing, hunting, etc?  All of those hobbies have $0 return.  They are hobbies, and they are done for enjoyment.  What if I collected something else? Do people expect a return on their beanie babies, Franklin Mint plates, or Hummel figurines? Would people say I collected them wrong? No, they would not.

Here is a fun fact... the greatest collections are sold graded.  What I collect is one of the last strongholds of raw coins - early copper.  This is due to the collectors wanting to view the edge lettering on certain coins, and/or maintain their coins with jewelers brushes and Blue Ribbon.  However, when the greatest collections of copper are sold, they are graded and slabbed.  Why?  Because that's the market, and if you want top dollar for your collection, it needs to be graded.  Tettenhorst and McGuigan had the finest collections of half cents (maybe ever), and both were graded before being sold.  So are you saying that buying these graded coins is wrong, and collectors should pass on the finest coins because they are in plastic, and/or were sold in an online auction?  That makes no sense at all to me.

A few years ago, I bought a car.  I had my choice narrowed down to two models, and I was very excited.  My father in law was very vocal about me buying a European car, and hammered me for not buying something American.  I told him that I would drive whatever HE wanted, as long as he paid for it.  The following week, I bought what I wanted.  He didn't want to pay for anything, he just wanted to tell me how to spend my money.

So... are you going to pay me to collect the coins you like, and how you like?  Or, are you just trying to tell me how to spend my money?

Edited March 9, 2023 by The Neophyte Numismatist

[ldhair]

On 3/9/2023 at 9:21 AM, VKurtB said:

And yet one of THE MOST attended talks at the ANA show was EXACTLY ON THAT  - what and how to collect. And I’m NEVER going to stop. This kum bay yah, do your own thing stuff is idiotic. There are standards. If you CHOOSE to ignore basic standards, it is YOU who leave behind befuddled heirs who will be struggling to not get taken. 

What I find that's idiotic is you being rude and insulting others over what they enjoy collecting. That's not what the ANA teaches and you know it. Nobody said anything about ignoring basic standards but no two collectors have the same standards. Some collect from pocket change and others only collect high end coins. There is nothing wrong with either. 

My heirs will not have any problem with my collection. They understand the hobby and will have all the information they will need to take proper actions. It's all about good record keeping and planning. 

 

[VKurtB]

On 3/9/2023 at 10:43 AM, ldhair said:

It's all about good record keeping and planning. 

Yes, yes it is. I was responding to somebody upthread who implied they wouldn’t be able to do this without slabbed coins and/or registries. I reject the notion, that’s all. Sounds like 🐂💩 to me. If you think I’M tough on modern day collectors, Larry, you should sit down with Cliff Mishler some time and just chat. He’s BRUTAL AS ALL GET OUT on modern day collecting sensitivities. So is Ken Bressett, and so was Chet Krause, before he passed on. And so is my frequent rhetorical nemesis here, Roger. Has the hobby “morphed” or changed or e(de?)volved? Sure! But not for the better mostly. 
 

Do TPGS have a legitimate role? OF COURSE THEY DO! But it has gotten utterly ridiculous! Things (services) they formerly REFUSED TO OFFER now constitute the flat out MAJORITY of their business AND their newest line of business. It’s gone bizarre. I’m just pointing it out. 

Edited March 9, 2023 by VKurtB

[VKurtB]

Larry, you want brutal honesty? I can give you brutal honesty. 
 

1) YouTube is numismatic poison. Get as far away from it as you can. 
2) Minor errors on “pennies” are worthless because almost none of them ARE errors. 
3) Put away your stupid high power USB microscopes. You get dumber each day you use one. 
4) NEVER have a coin slabbed UNTIL you can concisely write down exactly WHY you want it slabbed. Too many do it because they just think it’s what is done. It ain’t, sorry. 
5) Databases are databases, and registries are registries. One is NOT the other. 
 

and THE MAIN REASON THEY GAVE ME THE SMEDLEY AWARD:

6) Get away from your screen and get your kiester to a live coin show or coin club meeting, preferably both. Do it now. Do it often. 

Edited March 9, 2023 by VKurtB

[zadok]

On 3/9/2023 at 10:21 AM, VKurtB said:

And yet one of THE MOST attended talks at the ANA show was EXACTLY ON THAT  - what and how to collect. And I’m NEVER going to stop. This kum bay yah, do your own thing stuff is idiotic. There are standards. If you CHOOSE to ignore basic standards, it is YOU who leave behind befuddled heirs who will be struggling to not get taken. 

...there r no standards in collecting...just guidelines established by the different organizations...what n how anyone collects stamps, coins rocks etc is purely a personal choice, no one needs to conform to any standards to establish what they want to collect n how they choose to pursue that collection...

[VKurtB]

On 3/9/2023 at 3:34 PM, zadok said:

...there r no standards in collecting...just guidelines established by the different organizations...what n how anyone collects stamps, coins rocks etc is purely a personal choice, no one needs to conform to any standards to establish what they want to collect n how they choose to pursue that collection...

I simply disagree, Z. That’s all. 

[zadok]

On 3/9/2023 at 7:02 PM, VKurtB said:

I simply disagree, Z. That’s all. 

...just like collecting everyone has their thoughts, ideas, choices there r no real standards...i imagine that all those ANA members (i am one) n non-members who attend those talks dont depart changing their minds bout how they collect n what they collect, most or many just go listen see if any new ideas interest them n then modify those to their needs n desires...im sure there r probably more collectors that have never read anything ANA has published than those that have...if u really look at it the ANA standards r more for registry type collectors than non-registry collectors...another good indicator bout the diversity n non-standardization of our hobby is the custom sets that r in the registry umbrella, they for the most part dont fit into any standards but r still viable collections designed to the needs of those individual collectors n what they collect, i for one have registry sets, custom sets n some weird ball coin collections that dont fit any standards n i enjoy all of them...we have to be careful when we start discussing coin collecting standards, many of the standards we assume n accept r purely US creations n do not fit in the international coin collecting communities...i once several decades ago asked QDB to assist me in determining an ancient coin type set, after a few months he gave me a "list" of coins he considered representative of the ancient world but qualified that every collector would need to determine their own boundaries n parameters...as u mentioned, this is one area that we can agree to disagree n still enjoy what n how we each collect....

[GoldFinger1969]

For some of us, with plenty of time and $$$, one can afford to risk a bad purchase and certainly spend lots of time doing all that can be done to minimize said bad purchase.  Many people here can spend a few hours a day researching and looking at coins, watching auctions, talking to dealers and other collectors, etc.

For others, we might spend a few hours a MONTH doing that, maybe less.

Caveat Emptor !

[ldhair]

On 3/9/2023 at 12:06 PM, VKurtB said:

Larry, you want brutal honesty? I can give you brutal honesty. 
 

1) YouTube is numismatic poison. Get as far away from it as you can. 
2) Minor errors on “pennies” are worthless because almost none of them ARE errors. 
3) Put away your stupid high power USB microscopes. You get dumber each day you use one. 
4) NEVER have a coin slabbed UNTIL you can concisely write down exactly WHY you want it slabbed. Too many do it because they just think it’s what is done. It ain’t, sorry. 
5) Databases are databases, and registries are registries. One is NOT the other. 
 

and THE MAIN REASON THEY GAVE ME THE SMEDLEY AWARD:

6) Get away from your screen and get your kiester to a live coin show or coin club meeting, preferably both. Do it now. Do it often. 

I agree with most but I'll add a bit.

1) YouTube gives new collectors false hope of finding something valuable. When they learn the truth, most leave the hobby. I just hope that some hang in there and become long term collectors. There is some great information on the Tube but new folks can't separate the truth from the poison.

2) True but there is a good side to this. Some learn from the study and maybe stay with the hobby. Young folks with little money can collect something for free and learn. The smart ones will learn what is worthless with help from sites such as this one.

3) I agree. Why do some post 20 out of focus images? They must see how poor the images are when they post them.

4) That's a good idea to write down why they want the coin slabbed. I can see someone with a coin that is really special to them wanting it put in a nice holder. Some just have to learn the hard way that they are wasting money.

5) I agree.

6) I can't think of a better way to learn. Looking at as many coins as possible can do wonders for a persons grading skills. Talking with dealers and other collectors, face to face, is important. 

 

[World Colonial]

On 3/9/2023 at 10:41 PM, zadok said:

.i imagine that all those ANA members (i am one) n non-members who attend those talks dont depart changing their minds bout how they collect n what they collect, most or many just go listen see if any new ideas interest them n then modify those to their needs n desires

This

I don't believe more than a very low percentage care what others think about the coins they collect, except to the extent it impacts resale value.  I've read posts in the past disputing this (in particular from one poster who will remain nameless) but collecting is too anonymous where we don't have to interact with dealers or other collectors if we choose.  It's been that way for 20 years now, or more.

On 3/9/2023 at 10:41 PM, zadok said:

im sure there r probably more collectors that have never read anything ANA has published than those that have

Agree

I don't collect US coins.  The most relevant to me is probably counterfeit detection and second, grading somewhat.  I don't see that anything else about the ANA really has anything to do with my collecting.

I also don't see that the ANA is relevant to most collectors because of what they collect either and their coin budgets.  It's presumably the equivalent to a recreational consumption expense to them.

[CIII]

As long as it makes you happy, go for it!  I'm all for whatever it is that anyone wants to do.  If it makes you want to research in your own way, fine.  No one should judge anything.  Happy Friday!

[numisport]

On 3/8/2023 at 5:35 PM, VKurtB said:

SLABS ARE NOT PROTECTIVE, PERIOD! Let’s stop that pernicious myth (lie)  right here and right now!

That is one of the most rediculous statements I've ever heard coming from somebody who should know better. C'mon man after seeing what happens to red coppers in two by twos and observing a collector racing to shovel up his Peace Dollars after dropping his Dansco on the concrete floor at a local show, I'm floored at your 'never slab' kind of mentality. I used to have the same attitude I confess but I've since moved on.

[Coinbuf]

On 3/11/2023 at 9:15 AM, numisport said:

That is one of the most rediculous statements I've ever heard coming from somebody who should know better. C'mon man after seeing what happens to red coppers in two by twos and observing a collector racing to shovel up his Peace Dollars after dropping his Dansco on the concrete floor at a local show, I'm floored at your 'never slab' kind of mentality. I used to have the same attitude I confess but I've since moved on.

At the ANA show last weekend I had the opportunity to hear the clink and clack of silver and plastic hitting the concrete floor multiple times.   I'll bet that the clack sounds of the plastic had a much higher chance of no damage to the coins than the silver clink sounds.

I guess Kurt's brother must have had a table there too.  One dealer table I stopped at was very eager to share his disdain for slabs with everyone who stopped by his table.  Needless to say I did not see him do any business while I was around his area.

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

@VKurtB Did you have the opportunity to talk to Cliff Mishler about your "followers", "likes", and your "Leaderboard status" here on the NGC Boards?  We know those aspects are super important to you.  So, I have to surmise that you defended the online community at least little bit.  

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by The Neophyte Numismatist
changed to "...the online community"

[VKurtB]

On 3/13/2023 at 9:08 AM, The Neophyte Numismatist said:

@VKurtB Did you have the opportunity to talk to Cliff Mishler about your "followers", "likes", and your "Leaderboard status" here on the NGC Boards?  We know those aspects are super important to you.  So, I have to surmise that you defended the online community at least little bit.  

 

Here’s my take on the online community. It’s not the same hobby as the show going hobby. It’s just fundamentally different. And the intersection of the two divisions is really kind of small. How many ANA Committee members are on here? Me and who else? Small intersection set - tiny. How many people on here do competitive EXHIBITS? I have, but only 3 times. How many of the record number of ANA Board of Governors candidates have accounts here, ATS, or at CT? None that I know of. How many in here have ever been to an ANA banquet? It’s just a hugely bifurcated hobby, if not trifurcated or worse. There are over 27,000 ANA members. How many do this site? Kim Kiick, ANA Executive Director, never HEARD OF this discussion board. 

[J P M]

I am a ANA member. I love the information available from the ANA. There was a time before internet ANA ,coin clubs and coin magazines was almost the only way to get information. Not as much now the internet has filled a large void. This forum is a great asset to the hobby. You can come and speak with knowledgeable people where in the past you would have to go to a club or coin shop. I am sorry to see that there are not more older collectors that know of this site here and ATS. If the old timers don't feed the newcomers wisely there will be no more history to share. Coin Collectors like old statues and monuments will continue to disappear across the country.  

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

Here is my take:

The ANA has lost some of its potency, because more information is readily available.  Less collectors are dependent on the ANA for information than in the past.  Shows, while still heavily attended, have lost potency.  One used to have to get material from a show or shop and (s)he was limited to what was available to them in person... but now one can find anything (s)he needs online.  The online vehicle is both cost effective and robust to the collector.  The biggest downside to online is that there is a lot of misinformation, both in collecting strategy and the coins themselves can be misrepresented.

The people who are in charge of shows hate online presence the most.  This is because there is a conflict of interest.  Shows generate revenue by selling tables to dealers.  If the dealers are selling online, they may be less likely to buy a table.  Likewise, if a collector has found what they need from their living room they will be less likely to attend/or buy from a show.  I am not saying that people don't like buying from shows (they 100% do), but every dollar that is spent online dilutes dollars that would be spent at a show.

Edited March 13, 2023 by The Neophyte Numismatist

[zadok]

...this issue is a bit more complex than just the merits of collecting online/internet and/or going to coin shows...true, the real essence of collecting anything is the face to face interaction of looking, dealing, buying the items u collect, the camaraderie, personal interaction, reacquaintances one experiences... those days r slipping by if not disappearing, the world has changed n continues to do so, the hobby must also change or it will be left behind as we knew it...but this discussion is more than just about the hobby, it is also about the ANA, which some believe should be the face of the hobby, a roll that the ANA has abrogated voluntarily...why would it do that? priorities n influences changed as personnel running the association changed n their goals for the hobby changed...there r some basics to consider, first the ANA n its membership is a miniscule portion of the hobby, its like 2/1000% of the coin collecting community, i personally doubt that it would increase significantly if membership were free...next the goals of the ANA have changed, it started out as a collectors organization based on education n information n morphed into a controlling group that r little interested in the collectors, except that they need them, no its more of a for dealers organization n the associated businesses that the dealers need...hence, the closely knit associations between the ANA n the show promoters n the dealers that support those associations...the collectors n the education/information basis of the organization r still paid lip service but the priorities r elsewhere...vkurt questions why the board members n officers of the organization were not aware of nor participate in forums such as this one, its because they choose not to...it does not serve their purposes...back to the original issue, its not the merits of online participation versus in person participation, that is just a small part of the issue n the part that the ANA plays is deeply conflicted, its more about the collector versus the dealer n the association/show promoter versus the collector...sure the ANA could be very active on forums like this one but it does not serve their goals to do so...

[World Colonial]

On 3/13/2023 at 10:30 AM, VKurtB said:

Here’s my take on the online community. It’s not the same hobby as the show going hobby. It’s just fundamentally different. And the intersection of the two divisions is really kind of small. How many ANA Committee members are on here? Me and who else? Small intersection set - tiny. How many people on here do competitive EXHIBITS? I have, but only 3 times. How many of the record number of ANA Board of Governors candidates have accounts here, ATS, or at CT? None that I know of. How many in here have ever been to an ANA banquet? It’s just a hugely bifurcated hobby, if not trifurcated or worse. There are over 27,000 ANA members. How many do this site? Kim Kiick, ANA Executive Director, never HEARD OF this discussion board. 

The difference between you and most other collectors is that by your own posts, the ANA and coin clubs are an important part of your social life.  That's only true for a very low minority of collectors, less than the number of ANA members.  Maybe a lot less.

I've discussed this with you before and I consider my perception of this subject to be more or less the norm.  My coin budget is for coins, not to pay to travel and spend time with people I don't even want to be with or aren't important to me.  Same thing for my vacation time.  I can't go anywhere now due to personal reasons but when I could, I used all my vacation time to visit family in other countries.

I'd consider going to coin shows including the ANA, but the only one which is relatively convenient to me is FUN which I will eventually go to, probably once.  There isn't much point for me to go to any coin show because of the very low probability I will find anything I really want to buy.  For most collectors, there is no need to travel any distance because the coins they collect are common.

As for ANA membership, doesn't really have anything to do with what I have collected since 1998 and won't in the future either.  I was a member for a few years, but it I don't see a reason to be one now.  It's more expensive, but if I was going to support a numismatic organization, it will probably be the ANS.  I do intend to go to NYC to view the parts of the collection of interest to me, firstly pillar subsidiary mints.  Hopefully during the NYINC.

Edited March 13, 2023 by World Colonial

[VKurtB]

 

On 3/13/2023 at 3:37 PM, zadok said:

...this issue is a bit more complex than just the merits of collecting online/internet and/or going to coin shows...true, the real essence of collecting anything is the face to face interaction of looking, dealing, buying the items u collect, the camaraderie, personal interaction, reacquaintances one experiences... those days r slipping by if not disappearing, the world has changed n continues to do so, the hobby must also change or it will be left behind as we knew it...but this discussion is more than just about the hobby, it is also about the ANA, which some believe should be the face of the hobby, a roll that the ANA has abrogated voluntarily...why would it do that? priorities n influences changed as personnel running the association changed n their goals for the hobby changed...there r some basics to consider, first the ANA n its membership is a miniscule portion of the hobby, its like 2/1000% of the coin collecting community, i personally doubt that it would increase significantly if membership were free...next the goals of the ANA have changed, it started out as a collectors organization based on education n information n morphed into a controlling group that r little interested in the collectors, except that they need them, no its more of a for dealers organization n the associated businesses that the dealers need...hence, the closely knit associations between the ANA n the show promoters n the dealers that support those associations...the collectors n the education/information basis of the organization r still paid lip service but the priorities r elsewhere...vkurt questions why the board members n officers of the organization were not aware of nor participate in forums such as this one, its because they choose not to...it does not serve their purposes...back to the original issue, its not the merits of online participation versus in person participation, that is just a small part of the issue n the part that the ANA plays is deeply conflicted, its more about the collector versus the dealer n the association/show promoter versus the collector...sure the ANA could be very active on forums like this one but it does not serve their goals to do so...

You are CLOSE, VERY close, to a fundamental truth, but I think you missed the most important truth. I saw it more clearly this month at Phoenix than ever before. There is a cadre of dealer leadership who is CONSTANTLY trying to bend the ANA to its private pecuniary interests. Then again there is an educational/collector “party” that is currently in the majority (barely). They really locked horns at the Phoenix meeting. I have chosen to go “all in” with the anti-dealer pro-collector activist wing. The ANA is a 501(c)3 educational organization, not some damned coin dealer trade group. 

Edited March 13, 2023 by VKurtB

[zadok]

On 3/13/2023 at 6:53 PM, VKurtB said:

 

You are CLOSE, VERY close, to a fundamental truth, but I think you missed the most important truth. I saw it more clearly this month at Phoenix than ever before. There is a cadre of dealer leadership who is CONSTANTLY trying to bend the ANA to its private pecuniary interests. Then again there is an educational/collector “party” that is currently in the majority (barely). They really locked horns at the Phoenix meeting. I have chosen to go “all in” with the anti-dealer pro-collector activist wing. The ANA is a 501(c)3 educational organization, not some damned coin dealer trade group. 

...agree...guess just see what prevails, the money or the collector...be interesting...sort of stupid they both need each other to survive...the hobby will survive but the ANA has had numerous opportunities to take a leadership role n has declined so far....

[VKurtB]

On 3/13/2023 at 6:31 PM, zadok said:

...agree...guess just see what prevails, the money or the collector...be interesting...sort of stupid they both need each other to survive...the hobby will survive but the ANA has had numerous opportunities to take a leadership role n has declined so far....

There already is a coin dealer trade group - the Professional Numismatist’s Guild, PNG. You have to be a dealer with over a half million in net assets to join. Do that. Leave the ANA to those who desire to push the educational mandate. 

[Zebo]

On 3/13/2023 at 9:30 PM, VKurtB said:

There already is a coin dealer trade group - the Professional Numismatist’s Guild, PNG. You have to be a dealer with over a half million in net assets to join. Do that. Leave the ANA to those who desire to push the educational mandate. 

I’m an ANA member and believe it should be strictly for promoting the hobby, education and research.  As for shows and the registry. Both serve an important role. It doesn’t really matter if you prefer one over the other as long as you participate. 
 

Enough said.