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1921 Double Eagle (possible fake)
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13 posts in this topic

Hello. I have this coin and looks fake (plenty thing are not right like the year, signature, hair, leg, eagle head)  but what is interesting is: i checked it with different Xray machine and the content of gold is 89.6% copper and silver...weight is 33.43 grams diameter is right. What you think? It is possible to be OmegaMen copy?

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Edited by LiviuD
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Hello @LiviuD, thank you for contacting NGC. While that looks like a really neat coin, unfortunately, we cannot verify authenticity via photos or email, so you would need to kindly send the coin in if you'd like to confirm that the coin is genuine. Additionally,  NGC can't really advise you on if your coins are worth sending in for grading. That is up to the individual and why you want them graded.  Some people have them graded with the intent just to sell the coins.  Others have them graded just because they want to protect them in the holder and don't really have any interest in selling them or the value of the coin.  If your intent is to sell them, then you'd want to compare the cost of joining and getting the coin graded versus what you could get for the coin raw.  You'd have to either check online to get an idea of what that type of coin sells for or have them appraised by a currency dealer. If you do decide to send the coin in, please check out our How To Submit | NGC page if you'd like more details on how to submit your coin to us for grading/authentication.

Let us know if you have any questions. Have a great day!

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 Welcome to the NGC chat board.

 Many counterfeit U.S. gold coins contain gold and sometimes, like this one, are of approximately the correct weight and fineness.  This is frequently the case where, as here, the genuine coin would be worth substantially more than its bullion value. As you realized, this specimen differs in a number of respects in appearance and fine details from photos of genuine 1921 double eagles and is very likely a counterfeit.  (Even so, I would recommend that you not hold it in your bare hands.) I would only submit it to a grading service with an agreement that I would not be charged a grading fee based on the market value of the genuine coin if the coin turns out to be counterfeit.

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It's fake.  I'm 99.9% sure....I don't know grading well, but I know Saints. xD

The eyes look like someone who pulled an all-nighter and was on No-Doze or something....the left leg and foot are poorly struck (and that's being generous)....the edge lettering is terrible....and the surface looks gold glittery to fool someone.

Stars are mushy....hair looks like it needs conditioner xD.....gown wrinkles are exaggerated to match the light folds on a real Saint-Gaudens.

I'm rarely this definitive but this one smelled bad after 5 seconds of looking at it.  

Where did you get it ?

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On 2/9/2023 at 1:37 AM, LiviuD said:

It was in possesion of my family from 1970's ish (thats for sure)...from what my ouncle told me, it was a gift received by my grand grand father (he worked for France goverment)...maybe this is a story with peanuts :)) 

Show it to a local dealer, I'm sure he won't charge you.  Pictures can deceive, but I rarely have my Spidey-Sense go off that much on a Saint.

Let us know what happens.

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   I understand that many counterfeit yet of good gold content U.S. coins were made abroad, especially in the Middle East, during the 1960s and early 1970s, when U.S. citizens were already allowed to own classic U.S. gold coins in quantity, but not most modern foreign gold coins or gold bars. While most of them were common dates of lower denominations, they also included some rare dates and high denominations like this one. This may explain this piece's origin.

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On 2/9/2023 at 1:37 AM, LiviuD said:

It was in possesion of my family from 1970's ish (thats for sure)...from what my ouncle told me, it was a gift received by my grand grand father (he worked for France goverment)...maybe this is a story with peanuts :)) 

Here's the thing....it's possible it was just treated like a regular gold bullion coin worth $120 - $1,000 at that time (depending on when acquired).  But a 1921 Saint is a key date, one of the Top 4 Saint coins in terms of condition rarity in Mint State and very tough even in AU grades.  

Even if this coin was graded AU-53 it's worth tens of thousands of dollars.  I doubt it would have been given so freely.

 

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I understand that. Im curious if there are more of this copy in the world, or if NGC received any. Ive search all the internet and i couldnt find any of this, not even an info about connterfeit of this year. Ive been to some bullion dealers and nobody wanted to have a proper look at this coin, from the begining they said is fake until one expert listen my story and had a look with the magnifier. He was mystified by the way it was made. He said it is struck proper, some issues from original one are present on this one. He said it was very expensive to strike this coin and is not worth it, only if they struck thousand. And again i cant fine any copy on internet. He said to check how many dies they used when they struck this one in 1921 and on this year u cant find any info...for 1922 or 1920 you can find but for this year, blank. I know is fake, but still im very curious about the story,  and the reason :))) Everywhere ive been they didnt knew about how rare is this year, so im not that sure they knew it back in 1960s. 

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On 2/10/2023 at 3:44 AM, LiviuD said:

 Everywhere ive been they didnt knew about how rare is this year, so im not that sure they knew it back in 1960s. 

    My reprint of the 1947 (first edition, copyright 1946) "Redbook" lists common date St. Gaudens double eagles at $65 in Fine (probably today's VF-XF) condition and $72.50 in Uncirculated. The 1921 listed $400 in Fine and $750 Uncirculated.  My 1965 (published in 1964) "Redbook" lists common dates at $65 Extremely Fine and $80 Uncirculated, while the 1921 had values of $1,000 XF and $1,500 Uncirculated.  Therefore, the 1921 has long been recognized as a rare date.  The counterfeiter likely had intent to deceive in this regard.

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On 2/10/2023 at 3:44 AM, LiviuD said:

I understand that. Im curious if there are more of this copy in the world, or if NGC received any.

I doubt it.  It was probably one of several or maybe a sole copy.  We rarely saw thousands of fakes of a particular coin or year or mintage at once -- too easy to detect.

On 2/10/2023 at 3:44 AM, LiviuD said:

Ive been to some bullion dealers and nobody wanted to have a proper look at this coin, from the begining they said is fake until one expert listen my story and had a look with the magnifier. He was mystified by the way it was made. He said it is struck proper, some issues from original one are present on this one. He said it was very expensive to strike this coin and is not worth it, only if they struck thousand. 

Honestly, I doubt a bullion dealer would know about Saint-Gaudens counterfeits.  There is nothing "mystifying" about how this coin was made.  It's a BAD copy.  It's not like the Omega High Reliefs.   

Of course some "issues" from the original authentic Saint are present here -- but just a few.  It's not even a good fake and I doubt it was expensive to strike the coin.  No evidence they struck thousands or even hundreds or even dozens -- the dealer was just making stuff up and speculating.

The only thing to do is to ascertain if the coin is made from real gold and at least you have 1 ounce of bullion.

Your initial hunch was correct:  it's a fake.  But if it's 1 ounce of gold, not a total loss.

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On 2/10/2023 at 3:44 AM, LiviuD said:

 Everywhere ive been they didnt knew about how rare is this year, so im not that sure they knew it back in 1960s. 

The people you talked to didn't know much about Saint-Gaudens DEs, then.  The 1921 has been rare for 80 years and its relative ranking has been pretty constant over that time, a rarity.  In other words, no hoards have been found to increase the supply -- others have fallen or risen, but its remained the same in rarity indices.

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