1941-S Inverted MM? - What am I looking at here? 1 1

[Drick6sy19]

I have a beat up 1941-S Jefferson Nickel that appears to have an inverted mint mark. What do you think?

[Sandon]

   This looks like a normal 1941-S "small S", which appears on the vast majority of 1941-S nickels.  This punch was nearly symmetrical and would look the same either way it was punched. There are some "S" mint marks that are narrower on top and look different if punched "upside down", but not this one. 

[Drick6sy19]

If that is the case, how/why did PCGS have a distinction between a small s (#4012) and an inverted s (#38489 - FS-024.6)? https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/detail/38489

[bsshog40]

This is the best shot I can find of the inverted mm for the 1941s. Yours seems to be a little higher up, so not sure if the mm placement is the same on all. Your pic is a little blurry when zooming in. 

[bsshog40]

Found another on pcgs a little worn like yours. Could be an inverted mm from what I can see.

[Drick6sy19]

What really makes me think it is, is how the bottom arc (usually on top on the right side up examples) is slightly thinner and does not extend out to the width of the opposing loop on the top (which would normally be the bottom). However with the damage, I am cautious as that may be west causing that difference. 

[bsshog40]

Ya, so I thought your top pic was a closeup of your mm. By looking closer, I presume it's not? If not, then your pic doesn't seem to matchup with it. 

[Sandon]

   I'll admit that I had never heard of this variety, which isn't on NGC VarietyPlus, but the coin you posted doesn't look anything like those on the CoinFacts page to which you linked or the coin posted by @bsshog40, all of which have the "S" slanting to the left and with the thicker serif on top. Yours is from a different die and looks much more symmetrical and with a thicker bottom serif. In any case, an inverted "S" is still an "S"!

[Drick6sy19]

On 2/7/2023 at 11:49 PM, bsshog40 said:

Ya, so I thought your top pic was a closeup of your mm. By looking closer, I presume it's not? If not, then your pic doesn't seem to matchup with it. 

The top pick is a close-up of my coin’s mm.

[Drick6sy19]

On 2/7/2023 at 11:52 PM, Sandon said:

   I'll admit that I had never heard of this variety, which isn't on NGC VarietyPlus, but the coin you posted doesn't look anything like those on the CoinFacts page to which you linked or the coin posted by @bsshog40, all of which have the "S" slanting to the left and with the thicker serif on top. Yours is from a different die and looks much more symmetrical and with a thicker bottom serif. In any case, an inverted "S" is still an "S"!

I would think an “S” is an “S” normally too, but there appears to be a premium on the Inverted S according to the PCGS price guide as well as sales that have occurred on Heritage Auctions.

[bsshog40]

The coin you are showing sold is also an MS66 which yours is far from. There is a slight premium on these but condition is the biggest factor for how much. I'm on the fence with yours. I did notice that the slant is not a marker for the mm. 2 examples on pcgs shows one slightly slanted and one straight. Your top pic still makes me believe it is but I am definitely not an expert at this stuff. Wish I could give you a more definitive answer. Sorry

[Drick6sy19]

I'm not suggesting mine is worth that. My point was that if you compare what the MS 66 went for vs non-Inverted MS 66 1941-S Jeffersons, the inverted are getting 5-7 times the value. I'm only suggesting that clearly there is a value in finding a inverted variety vs the typical. Mine, even in its current condition (assuming I am able to obtain some sort of confirmation) will be worth keeping it in my personal collection even if it's only worth a couple dollars due to it's rarity. 

[Lem E]

This may help a bit.

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/968600/jefferson-nickel-variety-of-the-week-1941-s-inverted-s-fs-503

[Lem E]

From what I’m looking at it’s not tucked in close enough to Monticello. The positioning seems to be a key factor.

[Lem E]

Another thing I am seeing on what looks to be the actual inverted S is the slight curving on the outside wall at the bottom right next to the mintmark. 

[Drick6sy19]

Here's my question on location of mint marks. Considering the inverted nature of the mint mark, was this a result of the hand punching? If so, can location be a reliable indicator of validity since every hand punch would vary in location?

[Lem E]

On 2/7/2023 at 11:42 PM, Drick6sy19 said:

Here's my question on location of mint marks. Considering the inverted nature of the mint mark, was this a result of the hand punching? If so, can location be a reliable indicator of validity since every hand punch would vary in location?

I would say it would depend on how many of the dies were punched with the inverted mm. If it was just one die then yes. If this was done on multiple dies it would be much more difficult.

Edited February 8, 2023 by Lem E
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[Lem E]

After reading on in the link I posted and seeing that some were saying that this variety was debunked, I’m not sure what to believe. After looking at multiple examples I am still finding it very difficult to tell the difference between the inverted and a regular punch. If the S is symmetrical I think the angle of the punch theory is something to think about. It was a valid question and I appreciate you bringing the topic up. Made me do some research of my own. Wish I could be more help. Good luck and thanks again.

Edited February 8, 2023 by Lem E

[J P M]

Sorry to say Drick6sy19 I think your MM is not the inverted one . All the markers seam to indicate a slanted S closer to the building. I would still hang on to it if you like. It is a bit banged up and that removes any premium but it don't take up much space.