Silver Trime 0

[EagleRJO]

I came across a coin I hadn't noticed before, which is called a Silver Trime (example attached).  I did some digging and was expecting it to be something unusual like a 30 cent coin from the name (maybe shortened from Tri Dime), but it turned out to be a silver 3 cent piece struck from 1851 to 1873.  I was aware of a Cu-Ni 3 cent coin struck around the same time, so it didn't make sense at first that another 3 cent coin was being struck.

Apparently these 3 cent silver coins, and other silver coins, were being hoarded with a resulting shortage in Silver Trimes.  So the Cu-Ni Three Cent piece was struck starting in 1865 and continuing through 1889.  It's interesting what you find from something simple like looking up a mint spec for another coin.

One thing I wasn't able to dig up is where the name came from.  Okay, "tri" for 3 cents, but how does it get to be a "trime"?  Maybe one of our coin history buffs like @RWBor @Sandonmay know.

[Hoghead515]

The trimes are one of my favorite coins. I think I read where they minted them for people to help pay for postage on letters. Dont hold me to that but Im pretty sure.  Heres one I have in my collection. I really want to add one in mint shape to my set one these days but they are pretty expensive. This one is AU Details. Enviormental damage. In hand its still a nice looking coin. 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Hoghead515

[Moxie15]

The three cent piece was created to match the increase in first class postage to three cents. I have read that it was a political idea. They were not overly popular. I have also read that the word 'trime' was not used when they circulated, it seems to be something created after they were no longer minted but I have not found any reference to when it was first used.

[Sandon]

   Actually, per Breen's Encyclopedia, now out of print, the postal rate had been decreased from five to three cents, which was why a three cent denomination was chosen. However, the main reason for the issuance of the silver three cent pieces, stated in both the Encyclopedia and the Deluxe or "Mega" Red Book (7th ed. at 304) was the increase in the price of silver relative to the price of gold due to the increase in the gold supply from the California gold rush, which was driving silver coins out of circulation. The "Type 1" pieces dated 1851-53 are composed of 75% silver, 25% copper ("billon") in an effort to keep them in circulation.  (Types 2 and 3 are the usual .900 fine silver.)  While the Treasury referred to them as "trimes", the public, per the Encyclopedia, called them "fish scales"! 

   The issuance of the reduced weight half dimes through half dollars with arrows in 1853 fully resolved the silver coin shortage, while the "trimes" themselves ultimately were impacted by the hoarding of all gold and silver coins during the Civil War, leading to the issuance of the copper nickel three cent pieces.  However, some returned to circulation and apparently showed up as late as the earlier part of the twentieth century. A friend's grandfather, who wasn't a collector, had two well-worn (Fair to AG) 1852s that he had taken from circulation.  

Edited January 30, 2023 by Sandon

[GoldFinger1969]

I've read about them in the Liberty Head DE book.  First saw the word online and thought someone had misspelled "dime" !! 

[zadok]

On 1/30/2023 at 12:20 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I've read about them in the Liberty Head DE book.  First saw the word online and thought someone had misspelled "dime" !! 

...it could have been worse n been a 9c piece...a trinine....

[zadok]

On 1/30/2023 at 2:08 PM, zadok said:

...it could have been worse n been a 9c piece...a trinine....

...or a tri-trime....

[VKurtB]

Thruppence?

[Sandon]

   The 1863-72 circulation strikes are among the rarest but least promoted U.S. coins. I was able to obtain two of them, an 1867 (Uncirculated details) and an 1869 (AU 58) some years ago.  You can see them, as well as two other more common pieces in my three cent silver registry set at https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/264273/.  I also have an attractive proof 1866 graded PF 65 (more common than the circulation strike of that date, but still quite scarce), whose photos (courtesy of Stacks Bowers Galleries) follow:

 

 

[zadok]

On 1/30/2023 at 3:13 PM, VKurtB said:

Thruppence?

...i knew her, she worked at Howard Johnson's in Harrisburg....

[EagleRJO]

On 1/30/2023 at 4:50 PM, Sandon said:

   The 1863-72 circulation strikes are among the rarest but least promoted U.S. coins. I was able to obtain two of them, an 1867 (Uncirculated details) and an 1869 (AU 58) some years ago.  You can see them, as well as two other more common pieces in my three cent silver registry set at https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/264273/.  I also have an attractive proof 1866 graded PF 65 (more common than the circulation strike of that date, but still quite scarce), whose photos (courtesy of Stacks Bowers Galleries) follow:

@Hoghead515and @Sandon Those are some nice Trimes considering the relative rarity of the coins.  Thanks for sharing.

[EagleRJO]

On 1/30/2023 at 11:25 AM, Sandon said:

While the Treasury referred to them as "trimes", the public, per the Encyclopedia, called them "fish scales"! 

Interesting historical tidbits.  Also, they apparently were called "fish scales" as at 14.00mm they were the smallest US [silver] coin (a modern dime is 17.91mm for comparison), so that a few worn trimes laid on a counter gave the appearance of the scales on a fish. 

Edited February 1, 2023 by EagleRJO

[VKurtB]

When I casually look at 3-cent silver pieces, many of them are noticeably bent. Yes, some nice ones remain, but a lot of disassembled type sets of casual collectors have bent 3CS’s.  

[Sandon]

On 1/31/2023 at 10:02 AM, EagleRJO said:

at 14.00mm they were the smallest US coin

  Actually, Type 1 gold dollars (1849-1854), were the smallest in diameter at 13mm.  However, the three cent silver pieces at 0.75 gram for the Types 2 and 3 (0.8 gram for the Type 1) are certainly the lightest and based on observation certainly the thinnest!

[bsshog40]

Ya these are some very small coins. I have no idea where I got mine. Only one I have and not in very good shape. I have 1851 written on the 2x2 but not really sure of the date. 

 

[EagleRJO]

On 1/31/2023 at 12:49 PM, Sandon said:

  Actually, Type 1 gold dollars (1849-1854), were the smallest in diameter at 13mm.

You are correct.  That was a typo and should have read smallest US silver coin.

[EagleRJO]

On 1/31/2023 at 1:15 PM, bsshog40 said:

Ya these are some very small coins. I have no idea where I got mine. Only one I have and not in very good shape. I have 1851 written on the 2x2 but not really sure of the date. 

 

A number of those on a counter in a pile could actually look like "fish scales". 

[RWB]

On 1/30/2023 at 2:43 AM, EagleRJO said:

I came across a coin I hadn't noticed before, which is called a Silver Trime

It was and is called a "three cent piece" or "three cent silver." Trime is a modern aberration not used contemporary with the coin. (It sticks to the teeth like oily cheap peanut butter.)

The failed silver coin worth 20-cents was called a "twenty-cent piece" and never a "double dime" -- except, in the first proposed 20-cent piece in 1806-7 it was officially called a "double dime."

[EagleRJO]

On 1/31/2023 at 8:57 PM, RWB said:

It was and is called a "three cent piece" or "three cent silver." Trime is a modern aberration not used contemporary with the coin. (It sticks to the teeth like oily cheap peanut butter.)

The failed silver coin worth 20-cents was called a "twenty-cent piece" and never a "double dime" -- except, in the first proposed 20-cent piece in 1806-7 it was officially called a "double dime."

According to the Red Book the term "Trime" was used by the US Treasury Dept. and the table where I saw that was from ANA based on US mint records.  It's a pretty unusual name for a coin, which is why it stuck out like a sore thumb in that ANA table.

[Sandon]

   Breen's Encyclopedia (p.272) states that Mint Director James Ross Snowden invented the "neologism" "trimes" and admits that the term "hardly got into use outside coin-collecting circles, if there."  Collectors usually refer to them as "silver three cent pieces" or "three cent silvers" for short.  The 1865-89 copper nickel three cent pieces are sometimes referred to as "three cent nickels".

[RWB]

Snowden did not invent it. The word appears, if I remember correctly, in one of his routine letters then vanishes. A search of my database shows nothing. Breen has no references for his statement, we cannot check it and are best to put it where Breen put his other valuables.

[RWB]

On 1/31/2023 at 10:52 PM, EagleRJO said:

According to the Red Book the term "Trime" was used by the US Treasury Dept. and the table where I saw that was from ANA based on US mint records.  It's a pretty unusual name for a coin, which is why it stuck out like a sore thumb in that ANA table.

ANA has never been known for accuracy or much scholarship. The term was not used by Treasury - they used the official name as presented in the enabling legislation. Same for the 1875 20-cent.

PS: The official legislative name is also why the Morgan dollar was routinely called "standard silver dollar" in mint and Treasury documents.

Edited February 1, 2023 by RWB

[EagleRJO]

Its actually listed in the table as "Trime (Silver)" under it's own heading.  I think they could have just listed it as "Three Cents (Silver)" considering there is a separate heading in the table for "Three Cents (Cu-Ni)".

[VKurtB]

On 2/1/2023 at 3:09 PM, RWB said:

Snowden did not invent it. The word appears, if I remember correctly, in one of his routine letters then vanishes. A search of my database shows nothing. Breen has no references for his statement, we cannot check it and are best to put it where Breen put his other valuables.

Eww. 

[RWB]

These were often used for cheap jewelry by drilling a hole near the edge, and tying them on a silver wire or silver thread. (I once had a small bag of 100+ holed pieces. When cleaned and strung together they made nice gifts for girlfriends.)

There was a period when the Treasury refused to accept or redeem these while accepting all the older copper and CuNi cents. The Post Office put up a bit of a stink because they had piles of these things taken in for postage, but not paid out. (The public did not like them any more than they liked the dollar coins.)

Edited February 2, 2023 by RWB

[EagleRJO]

On 2/2/2023 at 11:50 AM, RWB said:

I once had a small bag of 100+ holed pieces. When cleaned and strung together they made nice gifts for girlfriends)

100, wow! You must have been going thru girlfriends like c.rap thru a goose.  

Edited February 2, 2023 by EagleRJO

[RWB]

On 2/2/2023 at 1:28 PM, EagleRJO said:

100, wow! You must have been going thru girlfriends like c.rap thru a goose.  

Each bracelet took about a dozen of the little "silver fish scales" so it all worked out.

I paid 25 or 30 cents each for them as junk from dealers, but I got a lot of value for the money and the girls had a really different looking piece of jewelry.