Coin shop, bad review! How many are this bad? 0

[VKurtB]

On 1/23/2023 at 6:59 AM, J P M said:

In the old days before internet you had to have the phone and word of mouth information through dealers and collectors. I am sure VKurtB still has a lot of those type connections where others do not.

I get auction announcements in the U.S. mail. You remember the U.S.P.S. Mail, right? White and blue trucks, driver on the right hand side. They put the letters and stuff in a thing called the “mail box”. Surely your parents have heard of it. And don’t get me started about “postage stamps”.

[J P M]

On 1/23/2023 at 1:54 PM, VKurtB said:

I get auction announcements in the U.S. mail. You remember the U.S.P.S. Mail, right? White and blue trucks, driver on the right hand side. They put the letters and stuff in a thing called the “mail box”. Surely your parents have heard of it. And don’t get me started about “postage stamps”.

Yes I forgot to mention U.S.P.S  I still use that system quite a bit myself .

 

[VKurtB]

On 1/23/2023 at 8:41 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Just curious....were most of those DEs commons worth bullion value and/or heavily circulated....or were they all raw ungradeds with some real numismatic value ? 

I presume you're not going there for graded, certified coins ?

It’s ALL numismatically interesting material. Yes, there’s some junk too, but it gets lumped into bulk lots. At JMI auctions in York, if a coin is being sold singly, it’s NOT a problem coin. I’ve submitted ABOUT 50 or so coins bought at York, PA auctions to NGC. I have “albumed” more than that. And maybe two dozen ended up in Eagle brand plastic and Mylar windowed holders. These come from series for which I don’t have a Dansco album.  I’ve bought exactly two already slabbed. No coin has EVER come back with an NGC problem. 

Edited January 23, 2023 by VKurtB

[GoldFinger1969]

On 1/23/2023 at 2:05 PM, VKurtB said:

It’s ALL numismatically interesting material. Yes, there’s some junk too, but it gets lumped into bulk lots. At JMI auctions in York, if a coin is being sold singly, it’s NOT a problem coin. I’ve submitted ABOUT 50 or so coins bought at York, PA auctions to NGC. I have “albumed” more than that. And maybe two dozen ended up in Eagle brand plastic and Mylar windowed holders. These come from series for which I don’t have a Dansco album.  I’ve bought exactly two already slabbed. No coin has EVER come back with an NGC problem. 

Very interesting...in your opinion...are these auctions MORE FREQUENT or LESS FREQUENT compared to 10 or 20 years ago ?

Not only would that show the impact of the internet...but it might also portend more collections and more rare coins coming out into the marketplace as the original owners or the 1st-inheritors from original owners....decide they just want $$$ and the coins are now on the market....or they die and their estate/beneficiaries decide they don't want them, either.

This is the kind of information that someone like ANA might have some idea is out that would be useful to collectors/dealers that we discussed on another thread.

[zadok]

On 1/23/2023 at 2:14 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Very interesting...in your opinion...are these auctions MORE FREQUENT or LESS FREQUENT compared to 10 or 20 years ago ?

Not only would that show the impact of the internet...but it might also portend more collections and more rare coins coming out into the marketplace as the original owners or the 1st-inheritors from original owners....decide they just want $$$ and the coins are now on the market....or they die and their estate/beneficiaries decide they don't want them, either.

This is the kind of information that someone like ANA might have some idea is out that would be useful to collectors/dealers that we discussed on another thread.

...in the penn, ohio, west va tri-state area these kind of auctions occur on an almost weekly basis, id imagine in lots of other areas of the country as well, i go to as many as 4-5 coin auctions per week, id estimate that 98% of the coins r ungraded or certified, grading knowledge makes the diff if ur results r successful or not... most of the coins r from estates or from collections that the owners want to sell before its an estate...most r circulated in the pre-1900s n most of the 1900 n after coins r unc or close to it many obtained from banks in the years of issue...as for DE n SG $20s id say many r ms62-64 coins...i usually see from 10-30 per week depending on how many auctions i go to...as mentioned before i personally believe that maybe only 10-20% of coins in the US r certified....

[World Colonial]

On 1/23/2023 at 3:05 PM, zadok said:

...in the penn, ohio, west va tri-state area these kind of auctions occur on an almost weekly basis, id imagine in lots of other areas of the country as well, i go to as many as 4-5 coin auctions per week, id estimate that 98% of the coins r ungraded or certified, grading knowledge makes the diff if ur results r successful or not... most of the coins r from estates or from collections that the owners want to sell before its an estate...most r circulated in the pre-1900s n most of the 1900 n after coins r unc or close to it many obtained from banks in the years of issue...as for DE n SG $20s id say many r ms62-64 coins...i usually see from 10-30 per week depending on how many auctions i go to...as mentioned before i personally believe that maybe only 10-20% of coins in the US r certified....

Sounds like my step grandmother's collection I have mentioned here several times.  Born in 1906, she came from an "old money" family.  Never worked a day in her life to my knowledge (for pay), not even in the Great Depression.

I suspect there are a lot more collections like this than most collectors think.  Just because the owner dies, doesn't mean the collection will be sold.  It will eventually at some point, but necessarily then. I also infer some of these collections don't even get included in the legal estate.  It's passed on with no paper trail.

"Old money" families have heirloom (collections) of many different types.  That's partly why they are rich.  They know how to manage (alternative) assets and leverage their circumstances to become wealthier.  It's described in "The Millionaire Next Door" and the sequel which I can infer you might have read, multi-generational wealth building.

Same concept for graded vs. ungraded.  If NGC and PCGS have only graded 14 (or near it) 1802 half dimes whereas the number documented to exist almost a century ago was 35-40, we can be sure the TPG population data is nowhere complete for most coins.

[zadok]

On 1/23/2023 at 3:30 PM, World Colonial said:

Sounds like my step grandmother's collection I have mentioned here several times.  Born in 1906, she came from an "old money" family.  Never worked a day in her life to my knowledge (for pay), not even in the Great Depression.

I suspect there are a lot more collections like this than most collectors think.  Just because the owner dies, doesn't mean the collection will be sold.  It will eventually at some point, but necessarily then. I also infer some of these collections don't even get included in the legal estate.  It's passed on with no paper trail.

"Old money" families have heirloom (collections) of many different types.  That's partly why they are rich.  They know how to manage (alternative) assets and leverage their circumstances to become wealthier.  It's described in "The Millionaire Next Door" and the sequel which I can infer you might have read, multi-generational wealth building.

Same concept for graded vs. ungraded.  If NGC and PCGS have only graded 14 (or near it) 1802 half dimes whereas the number documented to exist almost a century ago was 35-40, we can be sure the TPG population data is nowhere complete for most coins.

...totally agree, "old money" only gets older it doesnt go away...i am aware of family's sdb of rolls of gold including 1907 SGs, which will never be certified or sold...the families have no interest in selling n do not need more money....

[VKurtB]

On 1/23/2023 at 2:05 PM, zadok said:

...in the penn, ohio, west va tri-state area these kind of auctions occur on an almost weekly basis, id imagine in lots of other areas of the country as well, i go to as many as 4-5 coin auctions per week, id estimate that 98% of the coins r ungraded or certified, grading knowledge makes the diff if ur results r successful or not... most of the coins r from estates or from collections that the owners want to sell before its an estate...most r circulated in the pre-1900s n most of the 1900 n after coins r unc or close to it many obtained from banks in the years of issue...as for DE n SG $20s id say many r ms62-64 coins...i usually see from 10-30 per week depending on how many auctions i go to...as mentioned before i personally believe that maybe only 10-20% of coins in the US r certified....

zadok and World Colonial have said it true. All is the same as my experience up there. The high guesses on the percentage of coins that are graded have always flummoxed me. It’s NOWHERE NEAR as high as even national dealers think it is. The belief is an Internet phenomenon, and is dead wrong. 

Edited January 23, 2023 by VKurtB

[VKurtB]

On 1/23/2023 at 2:44 PM, VKurtB said:

zadok and World Colonial have said it true. All is the same as my experience up there. The high guesses on the percentage of coins that are graded have always flummoxed me. It’s NOWHERE NEAR as high as even national dealers think it is. The belief is an Internet phenomenon, and is dead wrong. 

There is a very active antiques, furniture, collectibles, and coin dealer down here between Arab and Guntersville, AL. I was at his place on lot viewing day a few months back. He goes to south central PA on his buying trips. He knew JMI Auctions very well. U.S. 30 in PA is his “idea of antiques heaven”. 

[VKurtB]

On 1/23/2023 at 1:14 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Very interesting...in your opinion...are these auctions MORE FREQUENT or LESS FREQUENT compared to 10 or 20 years ago ?

Not only would that show the impact of the internet...but it might also portend more collections and more rare coins coming out into the marketplace as the original owners or the 1st-inheritors from original owners....decide they just want $$$ and the coins are now on the market....or they die and their estate/beneficiaries decide they don't want them, either.

This is the kind of information that someone like ANA might have some idea is out that would be useful to collectors/dealers that we discussed on another thread.

There used to be seven or eight such auctions per week in central PA. Now they average one to two, so yeah, they’re getting less frequent. When I left, there were seven auctioneers on my list of “regulars”. And then there were others. All of the seven ran AT LEAST four auctions per year. And all were within a 35 mile drive from Harrisburg. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 1/23/2023 at 4:07 PM, VKurtB said:

There used to be seven or eight such auctions per week in central PA. Now they average one to two, so yeah, they’re getting less frequent. When I left, there were seven auctioneers on my list of “regulars”. And then there were others. All of the seven ran AT LEAST four auctions per year. And all were within a 35 mile drive from Harrisburg. 

Amazing....never heard about this, never read about it.  You would think that the numismatic mags would be writing about this little unexplored area, huh ?  Definitely interesting and a source for new often un-registered coins.  Mini-hoards, if you will.

Ironically....I attended the Parsippany, NJ show a few years ago and there was a dealer there who had 2 spectacular MCMVII HR's and some other very valuable rarities (from the mid-1800's) that a client or contact had given him to sell after they were found in some barn or farmhouse in Nebraska or something like that by the children or grandchildren who inherited the estate. 

Edited January 24, 2023 by GoldFinger1969

[VKurtB]

On 1/23/2023 at 7:01 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Amazing....never heard about this, never read about it.  You would think that the numismatic mags would be writing about this little unexplored area, huh ?  Definitely interesting and a source for new often un-registered coins.  Mini-hoards, if you will.

Ironically....I attended the Parsippany, NJ show a few years ago and there was a dealer there who had 2 spectacular MCMVII HR's and some other very valuable rarities (from the mid-1800's) that a client or contact had given him to sell after they were found in some barn or farmhouse in Nebraska or something like that by the children or grandchildren who inherited the estate. 

Not all that surprising.  Have you noticed how “middle of Wisconsin” centered Numismatic News is? Unless it happens at a major show, it must’ve happened in Wisconsin, right? Their regular contributors live and die in the major show circuit. They write about what they know. People get into habits and little incestuous cliques. This IS the coin hobby. Roger’s neck of the woods is good too. There are bubbles of coin hyperactivity around the country, but they are few and far between. The Internet folks have made up their own world. Look, Classical Numismatic Group is the best firm out there for ancient, medieval, and Renaissance coins, and they have TWO AND ONLY TWO locations. One is the Bloomsbury neighborhood of London, near to King’s Cross.  The other is Lancaster, Pennsylvania. These choices were NOT made at random. These are world class numismatic hotspots. Steigerwalt, Steinmetz, CNG, all Lancaster based through numismatic history. 

Edited January 24, 2023 by VKurtB

[World Colonial]

On 1/23/2023 at 11:14 PM, VKurtB said:

There are bubbles of coin hyperactivity around the country, but they are few and far between. The Internet folks have made up their own world. 

I'd like to know about these bubbles in other parts of the world, like Europe. No telling what is hidden (some of it in plain sight) there.

It's even less evident in the TPG data.

[VKurtB]

On 1/24/2023 at 7:42 AM, World Colonial said:

I'd like to know about these bubbles in other parts of the world, like Europe. No telling what is hidden (some of it in plain sight) there.

It's even less evident in the TPG data.

Well, there is a six times per year coin show at the Holiday Inn in Bloomsbury, London. Not huge by U.S. standards, but eclectic material. The area around the big turn of the Thames has quite a few coin dealers, but then again, … overhead costs. NGC’s London office is just around the corner from that Holiday Inn. 

Edited January 24, 2023 by VKurtB