MS70's & PF70s Are A Dime A Dozen Now 1 1

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/4/2022 at 12:50 PM, VKurtB said:

It seems logical (although I’ll wait for further scholarship on this) that the proofs were at all times immune from 1930’s confiscation rules. They may not have largely “vacationed in Europe”.

I would also think the proofs were held by actual coin collector enthusiasts.

[Henri Charriere]

On 12/2/2022 at 1:48 PM, Errorists said:

Will find other coins to collect now.

Respectfully, you've posted a topic and a single comment, unsupported by any evidence, before any member had an opportunity to respond!

These two top tier grades are not applicable to my series, French 20-franc gold roosters, but I would hesitate to make a broad generalization such as you've made in declaring them to be "a dime a dozen now" in any series now or in the recent past.

Statistically, they may be scarce, but I do not know that anyone could declare them to be common, with confidence.  I own not a one and that suits me just fine.  (I do not own any low-ball Roosters either but realistically speaking, with gold melt hovering at about $321, I don't know that it would make any sense authenticating and certifying any in less than Mint State grade, and yet some members have done just that.)

I would urge you not to allow anyone to dissuade you from collecting what your heart desires.  We are all friends here.  Not everything is about the money as you yourself have shown.  The thing about the various Forums is there are no big "I's" and little "you's."  It's a team effort where even if you choose to lurk about silently, you can learn something.  There is a great deal to be said for the humble collector with a predilection or proclivity for unusual phenomena not ordinarily appreciated by others.  I would encourage you to be yourself.  

[VKurtB]

Among the most recent NIFC coins (commemoratives and Eagle coins) the actual MAJORITY of graded coins turn out to be 70’s. The MegaRed reports average grade of all coins graded (by NGC - the other guys don’t play well with others) and FREQUENTLY the average grade reported is over 69.5!!!! Guess what that means. The majority are 70’s. It’s simple mathematics. 

Edited December 5, 2022 by VKurtB

[Crawtomatic]

On 12/5/2022 at 10:44 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

Respectfully, you've posted a topic and a single comment, unsupported by any evidence, before any member had an opportunity to respond!

And nary a response from the original poster as of yet!  If this were a ploy by a savvy social media expert, slash, search engine optimizer, to generate activity on the forums and agitate the dues paid trolls - nay, members - into a flurry of supposition, postulation, accusation, and tangential discussion, then by all means, it was a successful endeavor.  A shot across the bow that sent the rats a scurry and the sailors to their posts to return volley.

I think I must stop reading every QA reply or else I'll find myself adopting the prose of a maniac. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/5/2022 at 1:17 PM, VKurtB said:

Among the most recent NIFC coins (commemoratives and Eagle coins) the actual MAJORITY of graded coins turn out to be 70’s. The MegaRed reports average grade of all coins graded (by NGC - the other guys don’t play well with others) and FREQUENTLY the average grade reported is over 69.5!!!! Guess what that means. The majority are 70’s. It’s simple mathematics. 

Some designs are different and have wider dispersion....the 5-ounce ATB and other silver coins are tough to get in a 70 because the large fields show every glitch.

[Errorists]

On 12/5/2022 at 12:17 PM, VKurtB said:

Among the most recent NIFC coins (commemoratives and Eagle coins) the actual MAJORITY of graded coins turn out to be 70’s. The MegaRed reports average grade of all coins graded (by NGC - the other guys don’t play well with others) and FREQUENTLY the average grade reported is over 69.5!!!! Guess what that means. The majority are 70’s. It’s simple mathematics. 

YUP.

[VKurtB]

On 12/5/2022 at 3:42 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Some designs are different and have wider dispersion....the 5-ounce ATB and other silver coins are tough to get in a 70 because the large fields show every glitch.

There are two types of ATB 5-ounce coins - the “bullion” version with no mint mark, and the “numismatic” version, with mint mark and in the blue boxes. The former is hard to find in 70; the latter is not. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/5/2022 at 4:54 PM, VKurtB said:

There are two types of ATB 5-ounce coins - the “bullion” version with no mint mark, and the “numismatic” version, with mint mark and in the blue boxes. The former is hard to find in 70; the latter is not. 

I'm not sure which one(s) I have....I'll have to check...a few are raw, a few are graded.

Why would it be so tough to make PF70's/MS70's in the bullion version ?

[VKurtB]

On 12/5/2022 at 5:03 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I'm not sure which one(s) I have....I'll have to check...a few are raw, a few are graded.

Why would it be so tough to make PF70's/MS70's in the bullion version ?

Volume of striking and lack of care. They were not given the care of numismatic items. 

[Geyer Coin Auctions]

I think one of the reasons why so many 70 coins are graded now, is also because of the Mint's advancement over the years. Their also always trying to improve quality control. As time goes by, maybe 70 grade will be the norm and 69 and lower grades will be the scarcer coins. 

[olympicsos]

On 12/7/2022 at 3:49 PM, Geyer Coin Auctions said:

I think one of the reasons why so many 70 coins are graded now, is also because of the Mint's advancement over the years. Their also always trying to improve quality control. As time goes by, maybe 70 grade will be the norm and 69 and lower grades will be the scarcer coins. 

IMO quality control peaked during the 2000s and began a decline in the 2010s which became more pronounced after Ed Moy left the US Mint. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/7/2022 at 3:49 PM, Geyer Coin Auctions said:

I think one of the reasons why so many 70 coins are graded now, is also because of the Mint's advancement over the years. Their also always trying to improve quality control. As time goes by, maybe 70 grade will be the norm and 69 and lower grades will be the scarcer coins. 

Definitely the case.....and with some coins like the 2009 UHR, it's almost impossible to tell the difference between a 70 and a 69....sometimes even a 68 (unless you're a super-sharp grader/collector).

[VKurtB]

Always remember that the coins that CAN BE graded 69 and 70 (modern NIFC coins) are assigned by the grading firms to the most junior and inexperienced graders and their throughput is EXTREMELY high pressure for maintaining volume. Your 69 or 70 coin was examined for a FEW SECONDS.  Think about that when you obsess over your PF70 ASE’s.