☆ Designation on my Proof Die Cracks ?. 2 2

[Errorists]

Since very many of my NGC proof die cracks are graded in Ultra Cameo shouldn't they also get the ☆ designation? I've always liked ☆☆☆☆ 's  since Kindergarten..  Gold stars specifically..

Edited November 30, 2022 by Errorists

[Henri Charriere]

Here's an idea... I'll drop by the nearest so-called 99-cents store and pick you up a pack of gold stars.  You can play Grader of the Day, and put 'em on anything you feel deserves one if it'll make you feel better. Win! Win!  

[Errorists]

On 11/30/2022 at 2:23 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

Here's an idea... I'll drop by the nearest so-called 99-cents store and pick you up a pack of gold stars.  You can play Grader of the Day, and put 'em on anything you feel deserves one if it'll make you feel better. Win! Win!  

Sure get me the real gold ones about a million ounces of them..

[NewGuy1]

On 11/30/2022 at 2:57 PM, Errorists said:

Since very many of my NGC proof die cracks are graded in Ultra Cameo shouldn't they also get the ☆ designation? I've always liked ☆☆☆☆ 's  since Kindergarten..  Gold stars specifically..

Why would you expect a star grade for something like a crack?  How does a crack affect the condition of your coin?  do you even understand how grading slabs work?  Show us this is a real question and not some BS troll post?  this is a good site and lots of us are learning a lot about coins.  We don't want people screwing around on here. Sorry but thats what I think.  

 

 

[Errorists]

On 11/30/2022 at 4:30 PM, NewGuy1 said:

Why would you expect a star grade for something like a crack?  How does a crack affect the condition of your coin?  do you even understand how grading slabs work?  Show us this is a real question and not some BS troll post?  this is a good site and lots of us are learning a lot about coins.  We don't want people screwing around on here. Sorry but thats what I think.  

 

 

Think of it more like a VAM. Can a VAM get a star grade?

[VKurtB]

On 11/30/2022 at 4:50 PM, Errorists said:

Think of it more like a VAM. Can a VAM get a star grade?

VAM’s are determined by members of a coin collecting club. They have nothing to do with grading. 

[NewGuy1]

On 11/30/2022 at 5:50 PM, Errorists said:

Think of it more like a VAM. Can a VAM get a star grade?

Dumb response man Any coin should be able to get a star grade BECAUSE OF conditiin. Why would a crack or Van have anything to do with it. 

I gotta stop wasting my time reading your junk. This a good learning site.  I'm new here and Maybe I'm overreacitng but I hate clowns screwing with other people. But go ahead and keep posting your junk. Im just letting you know how I feel and hopefully other smart, respectd members will let me know if I need to keep quiet

[Errorists]

On 11/30/2022 at 5:01 PM, VKurtB said:

VAM’s are determined by members of a coin collecting club. They have nothing to do with grading. 

Poppycock.

 

Edited November 30, 2022 by Errorists

[Errorists]

The question is can a VAM get a star grade? 

[VKurtB]

On 11/30/2022 at 5:09 PM, Errorists said:

Poppycock.

 

It’s not poppycock. You have no idea what you are talking about. VAM stands for VanAllen and Mallis, the two guys who started identifying Morgan minor varieties. There are well over 2000 “VAMs”, and NGC recognizes only the Top 100 of them, as reported in ANOTHER book. You have no clue what a VAM even is. 

Edited November 30, 2022 by VKurtB

[Errorists]

On 11/30/2022 at 5:22 PM, VKurtB said:

It’s not poppycock. You have no idea what you are talking about. VAM stands for VanAllen and Mallis, the two guys who started identifying Morgan minor varieties. The are well over 2000 “VAMs”, and NGC recognizes only the Top 100 of them, as reported in ANOTHER book. You have no clue what a VAM even is. 

Neither did they until they found them.. lol.

[VKurtB]

On 11/30/2022 at 5:11 PM, Errorists said:

The question is can a VAM get a star grade? 

It can, but not for being a VAM. The star has nothing to do with varieties, but VAMs do. The star is for unusual eye appeal. 

Edited November 30, 2022 by VKurtB

[VKurtB]

On 11/30/2022 at 5:23 PM, Errorists said:

Neither did they until they found them.. lol.

… or “invented” them. Many people own VAM coins but have no idea they do. I, for one, couldn’t possibly care less about VAMs. I’ve never checked ANY of my Morgans for VAMs. I have no desire to read the book. 

Edited November 30, 2022 by VKurtB

[Errorists]

On 11/30/2022 at 5:26 PM, VKurtB said:

… or “invented” them.

No way the mint invented them accidentally.

[VKurtB]

On 11/30/2022 at 5:30 PM, Errorists said:

No way the mint invented them accidentally.

They invented their significance, for certain. 

[World Colonial]

To answer the original question, a die crack is a defect.

So no, I wouldn't think one of these coins should get a * for it.

Yes, I know that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" and in today's world of basement level standards, I suppose it makes total sense.

[Hoghead515]

I wouldnt see a coin with a die crack getting a star. The star is for exceptional eye appeal. I would think that the die crack would take away the eye appeal. Also Id think the cracks would start happening when the die starts getting worn. Id think the more exceptional coins would be struck off of fresh dies. Or off dies that have been freshly polished. Seems to me a crack would be a defect and therefore take away from eye appeal.

[Errorists]

On 11/30/2022 at 5:40 PM, World Colonial said:

To answer the original question, a die crack is a defect.

So no, I wouldn't think one of these coins should get a * for it.

Yes, I know that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" and in today's world of basement level standards, I suppose it makes total sense.

Even if it looks like a shooting star 🌠  it shouldn't get a star designation?? Humbug.. 

[Hoghead515]

On 11/30/2022 at 6:52 PM, Errorists said:

Even if it looks like a shooting star 🌠  it shouldn't get a star designation?? Humbug.. 

I think when they are grading them they are looking for a perfect gem. They see die cracks as imperfections. Even if everything else about it is a beauty. The crack takes away the eye appeal so it wont get the star. To most people thats an eye sore. 

[Errorists]

On 11/30/2022 at 5:56 PM, Hoghead515 said:

I think when they are grading them they are looking for a perfect gem. They see die cracks as imperfections. Even if everything else about it is a beauty. The crack takes away the eye appeal so it wont get the star. To most people thats an eye sore. 

I look at it as a shooting star. A thing of beauty 😍. 

[VKurtB]

On 11/30/2022 at 6:00 PM, Errorists said:

I look at it as a shooting star. A thing of beauty 😍. 

Yeah, you would. People who are enraptured by imperfections are a different breed of cat. 

[NewGuy1]

Why are we even bothering with this clown.  You guys told him why stars are used FOR GRADING.  Somebody would either have to be the stupiest hick headed dumber than a bag of rocks oerson or just a jerk that like mess with others to make them feel important. @errorist  WHICH ONE ARE YOU.  Wanna bet he replies with someting about stars that makes no sense

Night everyone. Once again, sorry if my posts bother the smart, helpful, respected people who want to help new guys like me learn.

 

[Errorists]

On 11/30/2022 at 6:17 PM, NewGuy1 said:

Why are we even bothering with this clown.  You guys told him why stars are used FOR GRADING.  Somebody would either have to be the stupiest hick headed dumber than a bag of rocks oerson or just a jerk that like mess with others to make them feel important. @errorist  WHICH ONE ARE YOU.  Wanna bet he replies with someting about stars that makes no sense

Night everyone. Once again, sorry if my posts bother the smart, helpful, respected people who want to help new guys like me learn.

 

Your grammar syntax and spelling need some touching up..

[World Colonial]

On 11/30/2022 at 6:52 PM, Errorists said:

Even if it looks like a shooting star 🌠  it shouldn't get a star designation?? Humbug.. 

Looks more like a scratch to me.

What coin is this anyway?  One of the newer US quarters I don't recognize?

The most likely reason this type of coin would get a star (given how common it is) is "monster" toning.

You can always artificially tone it.

Edited December 1, 2022 by World Colonial

[Sandon]

   

On 11/30/2022 at 9:33 PM, World Colonial said:

What coin is this anyway?  One of the newer US quarters I don't recognize?

   The coin is a 2006-S proof Nevada state quarter, presumably clad as it is in a blue colored proof set frame. (The silver sets were in red frames.)  Nearly 2.9 million were minted.  The die that struck this one was used longer than it should have, as it does appear to have cracked.  In the language used by collectors of earlier (mostly pre-1837) U.S. coins, it would be considered a "late die state" rather than an error or a variety. Some late die states of early U.S. coins are sought after, such as the late state of the 1807 50/20 C. (die variety O-111) half dollar on which obverse die cracks have formed a "beard" beneath Liberty's chin, this "Bearded Goddess" state having been designated O-111b.  Grading service labels refer to such pieces by the O-111b reference and/or the "Bearded Goddess" popular name on a separate line from the line stating the grade. The die variety and state reference and popular name are part of the description of the coin, not part of its grade.  As others have pointed out, a die crack is unrelated to the grade of a coin.

   Few collectors of modern (or even later nineteenth century) coins are interested in specifically collecting pieces exhibiting die cracks that have not caused pieces of the die to actually fall out and form a "cud". If enough collectors were interested in finding 2006-S Nevada quarters with this particular crack and paying a premium for them, and it became listed in popular references such as the "Red Book" or the "Cherrypickers" Guide", perhaps with a popular name such as "shooting star", it is possible that NGC and/or other grading services would identify this die state on the holder by name or reference number.  

  Now, what name would one care to give to my 1894 proof Liberty nickel that exhibits die cracks on the reverse connecting the letters "TATES OF AM"?  It is interesting to see such cracks on a coin with a reported mintage of only 2,632 pieces, but it's unlikely to be considered anything special either. (Photo courtesy of Stacks Bowers Galleries.)

 

Edited December 1, 2022 by Sandon

[Simple Collector]

Several things to consider about the * designation from NGC. The * designation has nothing to do with grading nor is it a recognized standard in the industry.  Coins do not have to be considered a gem to obtain the * as it is eye appeal in the opinion of the NGC graders. In terms of registry points they have the same value as the + designation which obviously is part of the grading designation.  Coins in MS60 and PF60 are out there with the * designation. Coins with die cracks, VAMs and other "flaws" from the mint have received the * designation from NGC as well. The SMS halves from 1965, 1966 and 1967 have tons of * designated examples out there in various grades.

 

[zadok]

On 12/1/2022 at 6:29 AM, Simple Collector said:

Several things to consider about the * designation from NGC. The * designation has nothing to do with grading nor is it a recognized standard in the industry.  Coins do not have to be considered a gem to obtain the * as it is eye appeal in the opinion of the NGC graders. In terms of registry points they have the same value as the + designation which obviously is part of the grading designation.  Coins in MS60 and PF60 are out there with the * designation. Coins with die cracks, VAMs and other "flaws" from the mint have received the * designation from NGC as well. The SMS halves from 1965, 1966 and 1967 have tons of * designated examples out there in various grades.

 

...all true, coins with die cracks or vams with the * did so due to the coin warranting the * not because of the die cracks or vams, coin would have received the * with or without the die cracks etc....

[Errorists]

On 11/30/2022 at 10:48 PM, Sandon said:

   

   The coin is a 2006-S proof Nevada state quarter, presumably clad as it is in a blue colored proof set frame. (The silver sets were in red frames.)  Nearly 2.9 million were minted.  The die that struck this one was used longer than it should have, as it does appear to have cracked.  In the language used by collectors of earlier (mostly pre-1837) U.S. coins, it would be considered a "late die state" rather than an error or a variety. Some late die states of early U.S. coins are sought after, such as the late state of the 1807 50/20 C. (die variety O-111) half dollar on which obverse die cracks have formed a "beard" beneath Liberty's chin, this "Bearded Goddess" state having been designated O-111b.  Grading service labels refer to such pieces by the O-111b reference and/or the "Bearded Goddess" popular name on a separate line from the line stating the grade. The die variety and state reference and popular name are part of the description of the coin, not part of its grade.  As others have pointed out, a die crack is unrelated to the grade of a coin.

   Few collectors of modern (or even later nineteenth century) coins are interested in specifically collecting pieces exhibiting die cracks that have not caused pieces of the die to actually fall out and form a "cud". If enough collectors were interested in finding 2006-S Nevada quarters with this particular crack and paying a premium for them, and it became listed in popular references such as the "Red Book" or the "Cherrypickers" Guide", perhaps with a popular name such as "shooting star", it is possible that NGC and/or other grading services would identify this die state on the holder by name or reference number.  

  Now, what name would one care to give to my 1894 proof Liberty nickel that exhibits die cracks on the reverse connecting the letters "TATES OF AM"?  It is interesting to see such cracks on a coin with a reported mintage of only 2,632 pieces, but it's unlikely to be considered anything special either. (Photo courtesy of Stacks Bowers Galleries.)

 

Not necessarily a late die state such as your low mintage coin. The crack on the die could theoretically happen on its first strike or next to its last strike. 

Edited December 1, 2022 by Errorists

[Errorists]

On 12/1/2022 at 7:28 AM, zadok said:

...all true, coins with die cracks or vams with the * did so due to the coin warranting the * not because of the die cracks or vams, coin would have received the * with or without the die cracks etc....

I like the consistency in the non proofs but why not the proofs? Any examples of proof die cracks with the star designation? Perhaps, mine will be the first??

[Simple Collector]

On 12/1/2022 at 9:47 AM, Errorists said:

I like the consistency in the non proofs but why not the proofs? Any examples of proof die cracks with the star designation? Perhaps, mine will be the first??

The * designation is the eye appeal of the coin. It has nothing to do with a die crack or any other detail that happens in the minting process. It should also be noted that proof coins are graded differently than business struck coins.