1933 Double Eagle 1 1

[zadok]

On 12/12/2022 at 6:45 PM, VKurtB said:

Methinks you don’t appreciate precedents in our federal courts that don’t have an organized political opposition. Unlike the Supreme Court, which is NOT BOUND by precedent, only GUIDED, the Circuit Courts ARE BOUND by existing precedent. The 3rd circuit went to special ends to declare this case precedential. 

...only those precedents that stink of judicial complicity...every case can be re-opened if substantial evidence is presented n that could happen in this case....

[VKurtB]

On 12/14/2022 at 5:03 AM, zadok said:

...only those precedents that stink of judicial complicity...every case can be re-opened if substantial evidence is presented n that could happen in this case....

Dream on, Z. Never happen. Under WHAT procedure could this case EVER get reopened? I’ll answer for you - there is none. None whatsoever. The case is closed, forever and all time. And if it takes melting all 10 of them to convince the “numismatic community” of that, then that’s what they should do. 

Edited December 14, 2022 by VKurtB

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/14/2022 at 3:13 PM, VKurtB said:

Under WHAT procedure could this case EVER get reopened?

You get a coin collector elected president !!  

[VKurtB]

On 12/14/2022 at 4:57 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

You get a coin collector elected president !!  

What about all the hooey that the DOJ is independent of the White House? (Which we all SHOULD KNOW has NEVER been true in the history of the Republic, from Washington to Kennedy to Nixon to Obama to Biden.)

Edited December 15, 2022 by VKurtB

[GoldFinger1969]

Looks like the government/FBI is back to stealing gold from Americans once again:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fbi-civil-war-gold-pennsylvania-dents-run/

Kurt was right, there IS lots of good gold and coin stuff in Central PA !!  

 

[VKurtB]

On 2/21/2023 at 7:10 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Looks like the government/FBI is back to stealing gold from Americans once again:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fbi-civil-war-gold-pennsylvania-dents-run/

Kurt was right, there IS lots of good gold and coin stuff in Central PA !!  

 

“A Treasure Hunter Wants To Know…”??? Who the heck cares what some treasure hunter wants? It is and always was federal (union) gold. If the FBI got it, good for them. A rare moment of doing the right thing. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 2/21/2023 at 11:31 PM, VKurtB said:

“A Treasure Hunter Wants To Know…”??? Who the heck cares what some treasure hunter wants? It is and always was federal (union) gold. If the FBI got it, good for them. A rare moment of doing the right thing. 

Why the lying and stealing in the dead of night ? 

Pay the guy his finders fee.  I'm not saying the gold isn't the governments.  But don't cheat The Little Guy who found it. 

Edited February 22, 2023 by GoldFinger1969

[olympicsos]

On 12/15/2022 at 1:57 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

You get a coin collector elected president !!  

That wouldn’t be far fetched. FDR was into stamps and a lot of conservatives are into gold. 

Edited February 22, 2023 by olympicsos

[GoldFinger1969]

A really good book on the entire gold abrogation cases and the politics behind it is in this book:

https://eh.net/book_reviews/american-default-the-untold-story-of-fdr-the-supreme-court-and-the-battle-over-gold/

I'll probably get it when I have time to read.  The review above gives some information that is useful on how the SCOTUS was able to rule for the government and yet claim that the gold clauses were not really violated.

 

[VKurtB]

On 2/23/2023 at 9:52 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

A really good book on the entire gold abrogation cases and the politics behind it is in this book:

https://eh.net/book_reviews/american-default-the-untold-story-of-fdr-the-supreme-court-and-the-battle-over-gold/

I'll probably get it when I have time to read.  The review above gives some information that is useful on how the SCOTUS was able to rule for the government and yet claim that the gold clauses were not really violated.

 

And even MENTALLY relitigating those cases is an example mental mastur… well, you know. 

[VKurtB]

On 2/21/2023 at 11:24 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Why the lying and stealing in the dead of night ? 

Pay the guy his finders fee.  I'm not saying the gold isn't the governments.  But don't cheat The Little Guy who found it. 

Under what legal theory would a random guy be owed ANY finder’s fee? This is not the U.K. where finders are due 50% of found treasure. We are talking about state (not federal) land with federally owned goods found. He had ONE opportunity - get it first and shut up about it forever. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 2/23/2023 at 11:12 AM, VKurtB said:

And even MENTALLY relitigating those cases is an example mental mastur… well, you know. 

I found the review itself interesting in that it explained the basic legal reasoning; the review itself is very good reading as it sits in the Historical Section of the Federal Reserve Board (the reviewer is an historian there). 

The Liberty Bond holders thought they had protected themselves by demanding gold coin and protecing their 1918 purchasing power -- and they still got burned.

The book pretty much agrees with the POV's of you, Kurt, and RWB.  But it goes into detail to discuss the politics, legal reasoning, and personalities behind the gold decisions.

Came out in 2018 so it's pretty recent.  If/when I get it, I'll review.  I still have to finish the Liberty DE book, the 1921 Depression book, and Roger's FMTM re-read and RoAC.  

I need the markets to go to sleep and be flat for about 2 months to catch up on all that reading ! 

Edited February 23, 2023 by GoldFinger1969

[GoldFinger1969]

On 2/23/2023 at 12:13 PM, VKurtB said:

Under what legal theory would a random guy be owed ANY finder’s fee? This is not the U.K. where finders are due 50% of found treasure. We are talking about state (not federal) land with federally owned goods found. He had ONE opportunity - get it first and shut up about it forever. 

I haven't tracked the case but I believe there was an oral or written agreement to share the proceeds.

Again...if the government was in the right, they wouldn't be digging up whatever they found at 2 AM in the stealth of night.  

Edited February 23, 2023 by GoldFinger1969

[VKurtB]

On 2/23/2023 at 11:47 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I haven't tracked the case but I believe there was an oral or written agreement to share the proceeds.

Again...if the government was in the right, they wouldn't be digging up whatever they found at 2 AM in the stealth of night.  

The government NEVER does anything with observation that can be done without it. Secrecy is ALWAYS Job One. Heck, they even mass produce signs to that effect by the millions. I’ve got a federal government facility near me that I pass a few times a week. There are no welcome mats at the gates. 

Edited February 23, 2023 by VKurtB

[World Colonial]

On 2/23/2023 at 12:47 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Again...if the government was in the right, they wouldn't be digging up whatever they found at 2 AM in the stealth of night.  

Everything any government does always makes sense once anyone accepts that it's the ultimate criminal organization.  It's just that its activities are usually declared "legal".

[VKurtB]

On 2/23/2023 at 12:58 PM, World Colonial said:

Everything any government does always makes sense once anyone accepts that it's the ultimate criminal organization.  It's just that its activities are usually declared "legal".

Essentially, yes. Some governments (administrations) more than others. I worked for STATE government for 13 years. Their response to ANY challenge of illegal activities were two: 1) Fine, hire a lawyer and try to sue us, and 2) “Is this the hill you want to die on?” Governments of all sizes rely on “owning” the playing field. THERE ARE NO NON-POLITICAL ACTS OF GOVERNMENT. 
 

Now I HAVE BEEN a pro se plaintiff against governments 16 times. I argued the cases myself. I went 14-2. Good enough for a #1 seed in the playoffs. 

Edited February 23, 2023 by VKurtB

[GoldFinger1969]

On 2/23/2023 at 4:48 PM, VKurtB said:

Now I HAVE BEEN a pro se plaintiff against governments 16 times. I argued the cases myself. I went 14-2. Good enough for a #1 seed in the playoffs. 

#1 seeds get bounced all the time.....

[VKurtB]

On 2/24/2023 at 8:48 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

#1 seeds get bounced all the time.....

Not this year.  Beating government lawyers in court is not that difficult. You get to ultra-specialize in a few areas, but they have to pretty much be generalists. You just need to know how to plead a complaint and have a law library card to research your Memorandum of Law. While I worked for the legislature, I had access to the best online law library that existed. 

Edited February 24, 2023 by VKurtB

[GoldFinger1969]

Got the book, American Default...it's REALLY good, pro or anti-gold, FDR, or gold coins I think anybody who's ever bought a gold coin (classic or modern) will enjoy it.....it's a great read. 

Reading it and Roger's sections on the gold standard and 1930's at the same time.  Great thing about both is they each have a great bibliography reference for more in-depth analysis (if you want even more  ).

Edited February 28, 2023 by GoldFinger1969

[GoldFinger1969]

Some interesting tidbits from American Default ; I've made it through a few chapters so far:

• FDR while campaigning in the final weeks of the 1932 campaign...was cagey and deceptive and objected when attacked as being a "devaulationist" or willing to tinker with the value of gold.  While he did not offer any outright hard policy prescriptions or promises or red lines, he did cover his you-know-what by saying he had no plans to do what the Hoover campaign attacked him on.  Of course, once in office he did a 180.
• Once FDR was elected but before sworn-in, lame-duck Hoover tried to coordinate policies with the incoming FDR team to stop bank failures, currency and gold drain, etc.  But FDR wouldn't commit to anything so Hoover's hands were tied.  FDR's team really didn't look good as they ended up doing pretty much what the Hoover folks were saying they could have done weeks or months sooner.
• A week after the Emergency Banking Act was passed by FDR during his first days, the government sold $800 MM in Treasuries....WITH the gold clause they were eliminating elsewhere !  .
• After the EBA was passed, gold holdings continued to decline.  By mid-March it was estimated that about $1 BB was being hoarded in gold coins, gold certificates, and currency.  They fell $188 MM in 3 weeks from the time of the EBA.
• On March 3rd, 1933.....the FRB NY lost $250 MM in gold and $150 MM in currency and fell below the 40% backing of currency with gold ($250 MM short of the target).

Edited March 7, 2023 by GoldFinger1969