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ANA Board of Govs Meeting Today
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91 posts in this topic

On 11/15/2022 at 8:04 PM, zadok said:

...thats not what im seeing at the bigger shows...baltimore, ana, central states....

I'll report back when I goto some local shows next few weeks.  FUN 2020 was definitely skewing older, last big show I attended.

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On 11/15/2022 at 9:15 PM, VKurtB said:

I think you have flipped the niche and the greater community. THIS, right HERE, on your screen, THIS is the tiny niche. 

Yes, we're the collectors who like to talk and learn about what we have and others have.

Others simply collect...store their goodies....and get on with their lives. 

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On 11/15/2022 at 8:43 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Yes, we're the collectors who like to talk and learn about what we have and others have.

Others simply collect...store their goodies....and get on with their lives. 

Even more different. And this was part of the Board meeting discussion. Many many collectors wouldn’t be caught DEAD talking about the hobby. They literally think talking about it will CAUSE their deaths. Oh they like to read and listen and even go to talks, but share anything about THEIR interests? Perish the thought. Some are convinced they were robbed because their mail carrier tipped off the thieves. No kidding. I know a guy from Lancaster County, PA who is a regular Baltimore Whitman show attendee. They only put first names on their badges. He uses a fake first name. 

Edited by VKurtB
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I'd like to see the ANA do more to fight counterfeiting with state and federal authorities....and working with online sellers.....etc.

Sting operations along with heavy fines/jail time seem to be the solutuion for domestics, not sure about foreign/Chinese.

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On 11/15/2022 at 8:01 PM, zadok said:

...ironic that a non-member n non-collector is so concerned bout the interests of the collector?....

Not the collector, but how many people should be privy to the identities of anonymous donors to the organization. You're right, Kurt. Wouldn't have guessed that... Seems positively unseemly.

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On 11/15/2022 at 8:06 PM, physics-fan3.14 said:

....I don't know what they do, or why they exist, except to apparently feed VKB's ego. 

This is an incredible revelation!  On the other hand, given to making such intemperate observations of late, who's going to salvage your credibility now? An entire organization devoted to Numismatics exists, and has existed, to stoke ONE person's ego?  Shades of meshuga...   :screwy:

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On 11/16/2022 at 9:35 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

This is an incredible revelation!  On the other hand, given to making such intemperate observations of late, who's going to salvage your credibility now? An entire organization devoted to Numismatics exists, and has existed, to stoke ONE person's ego?  Shades of meshuga...   :screwy:

Not shades, full blown full goose bozo meshuga. 

Edited by VKurtB
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On 11/16/2022 at 9:19 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

Not the collector, but how many people should be privy to the identities of anonymous donors to the organization. You're right, Kurt. Wouldn't have guessed that... Seems positively unseemly.

Should it be the bare minimum number of people to process the donation plus the tiny Executive Committee? Or should every member of the Board of Governors get to know that information? That is the controversy. A few members of the Board want to know it all. They are members who have a history of “bending arms” of donors, to be frank. 

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On 11/16/2022 at 8:52 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I'd like to see the ANA do more to fight counterfeiting with state and federal authorities....and working with online sellers.....etc.

Sting operations along with heavy fines/jail time seem to be the solutuion for domestics, not sure about foreign/Chinese.

Here’s the problem with that. As a 501(c)(3) EDUCATIONAL organization, their activities toward law enforcement are severely restricted. To accomplish those goals, the ANA has supported other organizations in a different IRS code category, such as ICTA and the new Anti-counterfeiting Task Force, which was CREATED by the ANA and ICTA (Industry Council for Tangible Assets) for just this reason. BUT…. if your definition of chasing down counterfeiters includes hassling Dan Carr in Colorado, you’re quixotically tilting at windmills. That is as settled as anything ever gets, RWB’s OPINION notwithstanding. 

Edited by VKurtB
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On 11/15/2022 at 9:49 PM, VKurtB said:

Even more different. And this was part of the Board meeting discussion. Many many collectors wouldn’t be caught DEAD talking about the hobby. They literally think talking about it will CAUSE their deaths. Oh they like to read and listen and even go to talks, but share anything about THEIR interests? Perish the thought. Some are convinced they were robbed because their mail carrier tipped off the thieves. No kidding. I know a guy from Lancaster County, PA who is a regular Baltimore Whitman show attendee. They only put first names on their badges. He uses a fake first name. 

I discuss and talk about my collection on here a whole lot. I feel safe talking bout it here. But very few people around home know Ive got it. I got several neighbors who would break into my house in a heartbeat to fund their meth habit. They all know we both work and they brave enough to try it if they knew what I had. I dont think anyone on this forum would come from way off to get my small collection but some of my neighbors could walk down and get them we live so close. They robbed bout everyone around.Stole a brand new four wheeler off me back in 2001. Still owed $5,000 on it. Had to pay it off and never got it back. 

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On 11/15/2022 at 3:31 PM, zadok said:

...just a question, n maybe u already know the answer...is there a full time person manning the library now?...the past few times i have called no one answered n the couple of times i left a message i never received a reply...this was several months ago n the circumstances may have changed?....

I have had very good response from the library recently - all by email. Quick and efficient.

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On 11/16/2022 at 11:01 AM, Zebo said:

I have had very good response from the library recently - all by email. Quick and efficient.

Good to hear. If you ever get to ANA HQ, check out the library. All numismatic stuff and IT IS HUGE! There are some unique works that reside ONLY THERE. 

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On 11/16/2022 at 11:08 AM, Zebo said:

The state quarter program?

Nope. Here it is. When the ANA owned ANACS (American Numismatic Association Certification Service) and you had to be an ANA member in order to submit coins. 

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On 11/16/2022 at 12:12 PM, Hoghead515 said:

Im with Goldfinger. It needs to at least be mentioned. How to battle counterfeiting. 

I could care less about Dan Carr; from what I know of him he's transparent about what he is doing and what he sells.  There is no intent to deceive as I understand it.

I'm talking about all these Ebay counterfeits and the overseas (Chinese) fakes.

Folks producing fake coins and fake slabs in quantity are the main problem, not somebody mischaracterizing a single coin on Craigslist or Ebay.

Edited by GoldFinger1969
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On 11/16/2022 at 12:20 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I could care less about Dan Carr; from what I know of him he's transparent about what he is doing and what he sells.  There is no intent to deceive as I understand it.

I'm talking about all these Ebay counterfeits and the overseas (Chinese) fakes.

Folks producing fake coins and fake slabs in quantity are the main problem, not somebody mischaracterizing a single coin on Craigslist or Ebay.

Yup, and it is the Anti-Counterfeiting Task Force that is aiding the woefully brain-drained Secret Service with what is supposed to be the Secret Service’s job. 
 

https://www.ictaonline.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=183:anti-counterfeit-task-force-formed&catid=26:news&Itemid=128#:~:text=The Anti-Counterfeiting Task Force (ACTF) was formally established,the need for action to address the problem.

To be brutally honest about it, for anyone to suggest that the ANA is not fully involved in the fight against counterfeiting, simply is not paying attention. They founded and FUNDED a task force with that very mandate, along with the ICTA, better known as the bullion dealers’ trade group. 

Edited by VKurtB
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On 11/16/2022 at 11:43 AM, VKurtB said:

.... They are members who have a history of “bending arms” of donors, to be frank. 

Oops, there it is!  What else could account for the tasteless interest?  Absolutely shameful this matter was even brought up. 

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On 11/16/2022 at 12:01 PM, Zebo said:

I have had very good response from the library recently - all by email. Quick and efficient.

Evidently, nature called, more than once, regrettably when the gentleman was indisposed. I'd chalk it up to bad timing.

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On 11/16/2022 at 2:12 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

Oops, there it is!  What else could account for the tasteless interest?  Absolutely shameful this matter was even brought up. 

Some members of the Board are frequently shameless. Most people don’t know it, but ANA Boards have two de facto “parties”, or “factions”. A few members cross the divide. But roughly speaking, it’s the dealer faction vs. the collector faction, and right now, the collectors are in control, UNLIKE the previous board. 
 

Now there is ONE past board member who is going to run again on a platform that ALL board members be required to be dealers. He will NOT be getting my vote. The Parliamentarian has informed him his plan is contrary to the By-Laws. He doesn’t care. 

Edited by VKurtB
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On 11/16/2022 at 2:16 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

Evidently, nature called, more than once, regrettably when the gentleman was indisposed. I'd chalk it up to bad timing.

The library was “unstaffed” for over a year. Heck, the whole HQ was nearly unstaffed for a huge chunk of the COVID period. 

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On 11/16/2022 at 1:20 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I could care less about Dan Carr; from what I know of him he's transparent about what he is doing and what he sells.  There is no intent to deceive as I understand it.

I'm talking about all these Ebay counterfeits and the overseas (Chinese) fakes.

Folks producing fake coins and fake slabs in quantity are the main problem, not somebody mischaracterizing a single coin on Craigslist or Ebay.

🐓:  You might as well admit it, Q...

Q.A.:  As much as I dislike saying so before a live, studio audience, the truth is I am a coward.  I confine my purchases to authorized dealers with an enviable reputation and a proven track record. No fuss. No muss. All of the allegations members may have heard regarding my discriminatory taste in buying is true. Guilty as charged.  My sincere apologies to the majority of coin sellers on eBay (and the fly-by-nights on etsy).  :makepoint:  doh!  :roflmao:  :whistle:

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Re counterfeiting...

Based solely on what I have read, I believe the matter of interdicting foreign counterfeits has been assumed by CBP, now under DHS.  The Secret Service, now under DHS as well, has for some time drawn a bead on counterfeit U.S. money-making operations, drug money laundering, any surplus irregularities such as that which developed in the FRD serving Miami, and other transit points, as well as "Super Notes," or high-quality $100. bills produced by North Korea. My guess is if counterfeits were produced in enough quantity to have a measurable impact on the economy, you can be sure the problem would be addressed. While I have no basis in saying so, I believe counterfeit clothing, designer this-and-that (clothing, luggage, handbags, watches, etc.) have long assumed a higher profile on governmental agencies' radar screens. Again, if counterfeits of numismatic items were to become more of a problem, priorities would be re-ordered and the matter would be addressed. With the advent of TPGS, I would like to think the universe of all possibilities is constantly shrinking.

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On 11/17/2022 at 6:44 AM, ldhair said:

The SS does not have the time of funds to deal with coin counterfeits. 

Paper money is a much bigger problem.

It's about the same with the IRS. They don't have much time to go after small amounts. 

True on all counts. 

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@VKurtB:

[According to the latest on-line CoinWorld, the Board of Governors' meeting was teleconferenced on October 20th at which time their fiscal 2023 budget was approved for $6.5 million.  (The article gives a breakdown of monies to be committed to particular intiatives.)]

Edited by Quintus Arrius
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Just a few beginning things the ANA Board could do to help collectors and the hobby.

Aggressive action against all counterfeiters and those who distribute and sell fake and altered coins and medals.

Close attention and input to all proposed legislation for commemorative coins and coin design changes, including sales and distribution.

Direct communication with US Mint senior staff and becoming part of the vetting stakeholders for designs.

A seat on the CCAC.

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On 11/19/2022 at 12:31 PM, RWB said:

Just a few beginning things the ANA Board could do to help collectors and the hobby.

Aggressive action against all counterfeiters and those who distribute and sell fake and altered coins and medals.

Close attention and input to all proposed legislation for commemorative coins and coin design changes, including sales and distribution.

Direct communication with US Mint senior staff and becoming part of the vetting stakeholders for designs.

A seat on the CCAC.

None of those fit within the ANA’s mission or mandate. Seats on the CCAC are defined IN STATUTE. The Mint does NOT want ANA input on anything. The only people they care about is Congress. The ANA, on the advice of legal counsel, CEASED advocating on the 2021 Morgan and Peace dollar, after starting to do so at the Pittsburgh 2019 Spring show. Tom Uram, at that time on the BoG, was directed to CEASE using the ANA’s imprimatur to advocate for the program, but to continue it as his private activity. 
 

Please, Roger, take some of that research time and look up the restrictions on a 501(c)3 tax exempt educational organization. But no, that’s probably wasted time, since you obviously can’t read and understand the counterfeiting statutes. 

Edited by VKurtB
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On 11/19/2022 at 1:31 PM, RWB said:

Just a few beginning things the ANA Board could do to help collectors and the hobby.

Aggressive action against all counterfeiters and those who distribute and sell fake and altered coins and medals.

Close attention and input to all proposed legislation for commemorative coins and coin design changes, including sales and distribution.

Direct communication with US Mint senior staff and becoming part of the vetting stakeholders for designs.

A seat on the CCAC.

As stated earlier in this column, the Department of Homeland Security has subsumed, in part, the missions of both Customs and Border Patrol and the U.S.S.S. Where two or more agencies share jurisdiction in the enforcement of statutes, an interagency strike force is formed.  Based on the particulars Kurt has provided regarding the chartered functions and duties of the ANA, my feeling is they present a subdued advisory presence to law enforcement investigatory agencies as it relates to coin and currency issues.

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