Popular Post J P M Posted September 16, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 16, 2022 I stopped by my favorite antique store today and picked up these two coins. I figure what the heck the Pilgrim may be a F to VF and the Columbian is at least a AU, I think for $10 a piece it was a good deal. GBrad, Hoghead515, Lem E and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 (edited) You, a confirmed MS slab guy buying older beat-up raw coins? I just fell off my chair! Can't beat the price! But the Columbian half dollar is faked a lot. Edited September 16, 2022 by EagleRJO J P M and GBrad 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 Both coins have environmental damage and I personally think that you overpaid for these, but if you like them and are happy then no harm no foul. GBrad 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J P M Posted September 16, 2022 Author Share Posted September 16, 2022 On 9/16/2022 at 2:06 PM, Coinbuf said: Both coins have environmental damage and I personally think that you overpaid for these, but if you like them and are happy then no harm no foul. I agree that the Pilgrim is a mess but the Columbian surfaces look like they are in good shape. I thought it was toned out a bit but not damaged. I can give you close ups. If you don't mind pointing out what you see Coinbuf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J P M Posted September 16, 2022 Author Share Posted September 16, 2022 On 9/16/2022 at 1:46 PM, EagleRJO said: You, a confirmed MS slab guy buying older beat-up raw coins? I just fell off my chair! Can't beat the price! But the Columbian half dollar is faked a lot. I do buy raw coins once in a while EagleRJO . Ya the price was not a big deal Coinbuf I used to spend $30 a day on cigarettes I cant imagine paying $13 a pack now it would cost $50 a day now . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 Yes the Pilgrim has obvious issues, so I'll just speak to the Columbian. Any coin that dark has reached a terminal state and it is highly likely that the silver has been etched by that tone. It is my opinion that you would have to immerse that coin into an acidic dip solution so long to remove that heavy a layer of tone that the surface would be burned, dull and lifeless. Simply put I do not think the surfaces are original and no amount of restoration is likely to have any positive impact. It also looks like a hint of green (maybe PVC) just under the chin, and the hazy area around the rim and letters of the reverse also look to have a greenish tint on my screen. Perhaps that is just my eyes, monitor, or a photographic artifact and no green is present on the coin in hand. Your AU assessment seems highly optimistic in my opinion as in order for a coin to grade at the AU level it has to have some mint luster. I see no luster at all in the photo so the best it could grade is XF, and from what I see it would be a no grade/environmental damage grade at any TPG. Of course I do not think that you bought them to submit, just thinking out loud on what I would expect if they were submitted. Aso I'm not trying to bag on the coins, they are what they are and there are many collectors that would and do buy coins with this look. As I said I just think the price was a bit high for the condition as I see them in the photo. But as long as you like them and are happy then what I think of the price is really not important. Lem E 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J P M Posted September 16, 2022 Author Share Posted September 16, 2022 On 9/16/2022 at 2:55 PM, Coinbuf said: Yes the Pilgrim has obvious issues, so I'll just speak to the Columbian. Any coin that dark has reached a terminal state and it is highly likely that the silver has been etched by that tone. It is my opinion that you would have to immerse that coin into an acidic dip solution so long to remove that heavy a layer of tone that the surface would be burned, dull and lifeless. Simply put I do not think the surfaces are original and no amount of restoration is likely to have any positive impact. It also looks like a hint of green (maybe PVC) just under the chin, and the hazy area around the rim and letters of the reverse also look to have a greenish tint on my screen. Perhaps that is just my eyes, monitor, or a photographic artifact and no green is present on the coin in hand. Your AU assessment seems highly optimistic in my opinion as in order for a coin to grade at the AU level it has to have some mint luster. I see no luster at all in the photo so the best it could grade is XF, and from what I see it would be a no grade/environmental damage grade at any TPG. Of course I do not think that you bought them to submit, just thinking out loud on what I would expect if they were submitted. Aso I'm not trying to bag on the coins, they are what they are and there are many collectors that would and do buy coins with this look. As I said I just think the price was a bit high for the condition as I see them in the photo. But as long as you like them and are happy then what I think of the price is really not important. Thanks for you information I appreciate your knowledge. I have no green that I can see just a lot of brown tone. LoL.. You are correct I did not buy these to have them graded. I figured $10 was close enough to melt to warrant the expense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zadok Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 ...way i see it u r on ur way to starting a sailing ship on coins collection...a themed collection n the grade would be appropriate n the costs even more so.... EagleRJO and J P M 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 (edited) Idk about the Pilgrim which is a mess, but for the Columbian it also looks to me like heavy tarnish/toning but otherwise not that much wear or damage and a pretty close match with known examples, so for $10 why not. A quick bath may clean it up a little. On 9/16/2022 at 3:38 PM, zadok said: u r on ur way to starting a sailing ship on coins collection Next thing you know JP is going to be buying a raw "shipwrecked" early date half dollar, which even I wouldn't do. Edited September 16, 2022 by EagleRJO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lem E Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 I was just watching an ANA video with Rod Gillis the other day about toning and he mentioned that a lot of the Columbians turned dark. Your coin reminded me of that. Here is that video if anyone wants to watch it. The Neophyte Numismatist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J P M Posted September 16, 2022 Author Share Posted September 16, 2022 On 9/16/2022 at 4:53 PM, Lem E said: I was just watching an ANA video with Rod Gillis the other day about toning and he mentioned that a lot of the Columbians turned dark. Your coin reminded me of that. Here is that video if anyone wants to watch it. Yes I price them all the time at the auction and almost all are just like this one, brown and bronze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J P M Posted September 17, 2022 Author Share Posted September 17, 2022 I just got home from a Granddaughters mini golf and birthday dinner earlier. Tonight I have been giving this 1893 a real close look and other than a few contact marks this coin has it's original patina and no sign of cleaning that I can see. Coinbuf remarked that it has no luster which would hold it back from grading a AU and I thank him for his insight. In reality it does have a bit of luster I think the first photo being shot straight on and the dark toning is hiding it . The majority of the coins high spots like the sails and the top of the bust hair are in good shape. The bottom of the hair shows a little wear but even MS 67 coins look flat in that area. As Rod Gillis stated in the clip Lem posted these coins all seam to tone out very dark. I may have to do some more research on this coin. Here are some shots at a bit of a angle. I am not sending this out to be graded but any thoughts, comments or questions are welcome. Lem E and RonnieR131 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Neophyte Numismatist Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 Congrats JP - I really like the design of the waves on the reverse of the Pilgrim, and the Columbian is always a popular commemorative. J P M 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J P M Posted September 17, 2022 Author Share Posted September 17, 2022 On 9/17/2022 at 10:47 AM, The Neophyte Numismatist said: Congrats JP - I really like the design of the waves on the reverse of the Pilgrim, and the Columbian is always a popular commemorative. Thanks Neo . The Pilgrim is just a cull it has been cleaned and had some PVC on it but I did not care I like it for a bit over melt price. It was there with the Columbian which was the nicest coin in the bunch. The Neophyte Numismatist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simple Collector Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 Again. Amazing on the criticism around here. I think it is a great find and if you like it, then AWESOME! For what you spent, if given the opportunity, I would have snatched them up as well. Hell, that could have been a McDonalds meal! J P M 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J P M Posted September 17, 2022 Author Share Posted September 17, 2022 On 9/17/2022 at 12:05 PM, Simple Collector said: Again. Amazing on the criticism around here. I think it is a great find and if you like it, then AWESOME! For what you spent, if given the opportunity, I would have snatched them up as well. Hell, that could have been a McDonalds meal! LoL ya, I hear a happy meal cost more than what I spent on a coin. I will not be sending them to Heritage Auctions either RonnieR131 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lem E Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 I like the Columbian. J P M 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Neophyte Numismatist Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 On 9/16/2022 at 4:53 PM, Lem E said: I was just watching an ANA video with Rod Gillis the other day about toning and he mentioned that a lot of the Columbians turned dark. Your coin reminded me of that. Here is that video if anyone wants to watch it. This is a great video in general... thanks for posting. J P M and Lem E 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lem E Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 On 9/17/2022 at 4:22 PM, The Neophyte Numismatist said: This is a great video in general... thanks for posting. I like this series. If you are going to watch youtube, this is pretty legit. J P M 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post VKurtB Posted September 18, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 18, 2022 On 9/17/2022 at 6:30 PM, Lem E said: I like this series. If you are going to watch youtube, this is pretty legit. I don’t consider these “YouTube” videos. They’re ANA videos that just happen to also be on YouTube. They provide a level of legitimacy that the huge majority of YouTube videos do not deserve. Lem E, J P M and GBrad 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bignubnumismatics Posted September 18, 2022 Share Posted September 18, 2022 On 9/16/2022 at 2:06 PM, Coinbuf said: Both coins have environmental damage and I personally think that you overpaid for these, but if you like them and are happy then no harm no foul. $10 a piece for classic comes is a decent deal. I doubt you could find a cheaper pilgrim. If you can find what each classic commem was issued in, you can usually tell what the toning will look like. Sesquis are extremely hard to find nice toning on. J P M 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Coinbuf Posted September 18, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 18, 2022 (edited) On 9/17/2022 at 9:54 AM, J P M said: LoL ya, I hear a happy meal cost more than what I spent on a coin. I will not be sending them to Heritage Auctions either Big mistake! These guys want that coin! I bet someone here will step up big and you can go from happy meal to dinner at Applebee's money! Edited September 18, 2022 by Coinbuf RonnieR131, GBrad, EagleRJO and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Hoghead515 Posted September 19, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 19, 2022 On 9/16/2022 at 4:53 PM, Lem E said: I was just watching an ANA video with Rod Gillis the other day about toning and he mentioned that a lot of the Columbians turned dark. Your coin reminded me of that. Here is that video if anyone wants to watch it. I was looking at some while back at a local pawn shop while I was looking for 12 guage shells. That place is way over priced but I still like to browse the coins. I noticed all the Columbians they had were very darkly toned. They had around 10 or so of them and they were all like that. Lem E, RonnieR131 and Coinbuf 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 (edited) At around $500 for a nicer toned 1893 Columbian that could buy quite a few happy meals! Slap that baby in a slab coffin and let it rip. 😆 Edited September 20, 2022 by EagleRJO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J P M Posted September 20, 2022 Author Share Posted September 20, 2022 On 9/20/2022 at 6:27 AM, EagleRJO said: At around $500 for a nicer toned 1893 Columbian that could buy quite a few happy meals! Slap that baby in a slab coffin and let it rip. 😆 LoL .. well that one is a little bit nicer it has that PL64 label and a blue copper tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 Yup, that one was a little nicer, but I was surprised at what some of the toned ones went for while doing a little surfing at GC. The toned Isabella Quarters from the Expo were going for a lot more. RonnieR131 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Neophyte Numismatist Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 On 9/20/2022 at 7:44 AM, EagleRJO said: Yup, that one was a little nicer, but I was surprised at what some of the toned ones went for while doing a little surfing at GC. The toned Isabella Quarters from the Expo were going for a lot more. There are far fewer Isabella Quarters than Columbian Halves today. Both of these coins were sold for $1. If you could buy a $0.25 for $1 or $.50 for $1... which one would you pick? Probably the half dollar. There was a maximum mintage of 40,000 coins, and it is estimated that only 15,000 coins were sold. The Board of Lady Managers purchased ~10,000 leftover quarters, and later sold these to dealers that understood the relative rarity. The remaining ~15,000 coins were returned to the Mint and melted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 Yup, supply and demand. The demand side surprised me with the amount some of the toned Isabella Quarters, which is a commemorative coin, sold for at over $5k up to $21k for MS-67. I am definitely going to my local antique stores also to see what they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBrad Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 On 9/16/2022 at 2:55 PM, Coinbuf said: But as long as you like them and are happy then what I think of the price is really not important. On 9/16/2022 at 2:06 PM, Coinbuf said: but if you like them and are happy then no harm no foul. I really like this two statements of yours Coinbuf. This is so true and often swept to the side these days with collecting. IMHO, this is what coin collecting, as a hobby, is all about.👍 Coinbuf and RonnieR131 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post GBrad Posted September 21, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 21, 2022 On 9/19/2022 at 4:14 AM, Hoghead515 said: I was looking at some while back at a local pawn shop while I was looking for 12 guage shells. Oh..... and I just couldn't let this one go, That's my friend Hoghead ya'll. I wouldn't expect anything less! I love it!😁 Coinbuf, RonnieR131 and Hoghead515 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
