Interesting ANA photos from Charmy Harker. Take a look at her convention post. 1 1

[USAuPzlBxBob]

It is a good idea to go through this comprehensive list of crime prevention before going to a show.  Clearly the Rolex guys let their guard down when they all went on a lunch-break.
They did not heed # 57.  They should have left someone behind.  However, clearly they were never expecting the brazenness of the theft that took place, and it was an ingenious nuance to theft in general.

Who knows, arrests may be about to happen, and things are deliberately low key right now so as not to spook the thieves.  (Law enforcement does not want to tip their hand.)  Nothing new about the theft has appeared in the news for days, now.

Security Tactics for Dealers Attending Coin Shows

Dealers who participate in coin shows are potential targets of numismatic predators. The following tactics and practices provide dealers and their employees with a basic safety plan that will help reduce the chances of becoming a numismatic crime victim.
 
1.  Take the time to learn about the show you will be attending and the area in which it is located.

2.  Contact the bourse chairman to answer any additional questions such as location of loading and unloading areas. (Possible construction areas, road closings close to venue, etc.)

3.  If traveling by personal car plan most direct route and determine any construction or choke points. (Contact State Police or State Transportation Department for this type of information)  Identify any potential weather issues that would cause travel problems.  Determine if there are any cellphone dead spots along your route.  Always be alert to suspicious vehicles.

4.  Travel with someone and let a family member know your route and estimated time of arrival.

5.  Inventory coins and leave copy on home/office computer.  (Downloading to a flash drive provides an additional layer of documentation.) 

6.  Upon arrival locate unloading area and make sure adequate security is in place while unloading (loading).  Before exiting your vehicle look around for any suspicious persons, vehicles or activity.

7.  Do not let cell phones distract you (Texting and talking) while loading and unloading.

8.  Once you have unloaded do not park in a secluded parking lot or one that does not have adequate lighting after dark.

9.  Always be alert to the surroundings when going to and from your vehicle.  Do not use cell phone.

10.  If you are arriving by air and taking a cab, shuttle or limousine to the show do not take your eyes off your bags until they are secured within the vehicle.  In situations where you are using a shuttle stay at the rear until the last piece of luggage is loaded and then board.  (Do not let any distraction cause you to take your eyes off of your bags.)

11.  If possible keep the most valuable bag in your possession.

12.  Do not advertise you are a coin dealer and going to the coin show.

13.  When you get to the show and exit the vehicle be alert to the surroundings while your bags are being unloaded.  (Do not let any distraction cause you take your eyes off of your bags.)

14.  Once inside the show check-in and immediately put on your show credentials.

15.  When you arrive at your table secure inventory behind table before you start arranging cases, lamps and chairs.  DO NOT LEAVE ANYTHING IN AISLE.

16.  Identify who is on each side and behind you.

17.  Do not let other dealers or early birds look at coins until set-up is complete. This will eliminate any distractions and maintains control of inventory.

18.  Do not display more material than you can control.

19.  Once set-up is complete take photos with your phone to document your presence at show.  (Insurance and Law Enforcement purposes).

20.  Take photos of individual cases.  (Insurance and Law Enforcement purposes)

21.  Use extra cases on backup table to secure additional inventory, money bags and invoices.

22.  Do not keep cash, invoices, checkbooks or itemized inventory listing in same location.

23.  Secure briefcases to backup table with cable locks.

24.  If you occupy a corner table make sure back-up inventory cannot be reached by customers.

25.  Look around and locate all exits emergency and non-emergency. Familiarize yourself with the entire room.

26.  Fire Alarms – Know the protocol of the facility if a fire alarm is tripped and mandatory evacuation is required.  (real or false)

27.  Develop a mental plan of escape if an emergency arises that requires immediate evacuation of the bourse floor.

28.  Keep a small LED flashlight within easy reach in case of power failure within the bourse floor.  (It does happen!!)

29.  If lights go out illuminate flashlight and have customers push back away from the table and remain outside-affiliatelinksnotallowed  Close cases immediately.

30.  Cases should be locked at all times including those on backup table.

31.  Be familiar with security personnel.

32.  Know how to contact security during the show if needed.

33.  Know how to contact a show representative during the show if needed.

34.  Know how to contact a show representative after show closes in case of an accident or medical emergency.

35.  When dealing with customers show only one coin at a time.

36.  If you are alone do not show coins to multiple customers at one time.  Suspects working in pairs often utilize this method to keep a dealer distracted.

37.  Coin thieves will migrate to dealer tables that are extremely busy and easily distracted.

38.  Coin thieves look for dealers who are vulnerable.

39.  In many cases a person’s unusual head and eye movements raise suspicious red flags.

40.  Always watch a person’s hands carefully.

41.  Do not let customers place personal items on show case.

42.  When showing raw coins watch hand movements for palming of coins. In many cases a person looking through a box will pull out several coins hold in palm and continue to look through box.

43.  Closely watch persons who pull out several coins lay them out on case and continue to look through box. This creates an additional distraction and allows for easy palming.

44.  Be aware that suspects may work in pairs.  (Males or Male and Female)

45.  Remember there is no distinctive profile of what a thief looks like!!

46.  When working in pairs, the M.O. is for one suspect to be looking at coins while the other one asks questions to create a distraction.

47.  Do not let customers pull out their coins for comparison unless you are watching carefully. In some cases this could be used as a means of switching coins/paper money.

48.  Do not turn your back to customers.

49.  Be suspicious of persons asking unsolicited questions about your travel or value of inventory.

50.  Never divulge to any person you do not know that you are traveling alone.

51.  Utilize your cell phone camera/video to photograph/video and document suspicious persons.

52.  Alert security of suspicious persons or activity on the bourse floor.

53.  Distractions – Organized groups will often use distraction methods such as a person fainting, fake heart attack or dropping a small child to open a window of opportunity for an accomplice to steal while at your table.

54.  Due to the quality of counterfeits, carefully evaluate all purchases from the public. (Suspects will try to sell counterfeits to dealers who are extremely busy and will not take the time to carefully examine the coins.)

55.  If you take a check for purchases - photograph check and identification (require two types of ID) with your cell phone camera. Carefully evaluate photo identification for quality and make sure the photo matches the person making the transaction.  (Although be aware that good counterfeit ID’s will have matching photos)  The address on the check and identification should match.  Do not take postdated checks.  If you are still suspicious ask for other pieces of identification.

56.  Immediately place large cash transactions in money bags and lock in showcase.  Do not display stacks of cash in showcases.

57.  If you need to leave your table, lock all cases and alert dealers next to you or in back that you will return shortly.

58.  Develop and maintain a personal contingency plan:
       a.  If traveling alone keep a list of any medical conditions, medications and emergency contact numbers inside your wallet or purse.
       b.  If you have a medical condition that may be incapacitating — such as diabetes or epilepsy — make sure someone at the show is aware of a potential problem.
       c.  Make sure a family member and fellow dealer in attendance at the show know where you are staying.
       d. Travel with adequate medications
       e.  Identify someone at the show who can secure and take possession of your inventory in case of accident or medical emergency.

59.  When leaving the show at the end of the day do not carry large sums of cash or inventory.

60.  Talk with security or show representatives to identify safe and unsafe venues within the area.

61.  Take off all show credentials before leaving the building.

62.  Do not talk about your business dealings in a public forum (restaurants, bars etc.,). Remember there is no specific profile of what a coin thief looks like.

63.  When carrying coins in a briefcase be alert in areas of congestion that may create an opportunity for theft.  Examples: Food lines, ticket lines, crowded subways, shuttles, elevators etc.,

64.  At the end of the show limit distractions while packing up. Make sure there is adequate security outside when loading. If making several trips to vehicle, have someone watch your table and leave most valuable load for last.

65.  Before driving off check your vehicle for any possible tampering (low tires, leaking fluids etc.,)

66.  Be cognizant of any suspicious persons or vehicles.

67.  Do not be complacent, always be alert to your surroundings – "Do Not Be a Victim……."

[Henri Charriere]

Not to belabor this matter any farther than it's gone, buy I distinctly recall reading the sole  [female] security officer on duty at an entrance/exit was sufficiently distracted so as to inadvertently enable the booty stolen, whether a small case or the kit-and-kaboodle, waltzed right out on a dolly or similar means of transport. The entire caper was recorded so there is no doubt it is being pored over, as we speak. I expect this matter to be cleared with an arrest, or arrests, in due course. This is desecration of the worst type.

[RWB]

USAuPzlBxBob -

Excellent list, but I fear many coin dealers cannot count that high -- without a "$" being present.

Edited August 27, 2022 by RWB

[zadok]

On 8/27/2022 at 12:55 PM, USAuPzlBxBob said:

It is a good idea to go through this comprehensive list of crime prevention before going to a show.  Clearly the Rolex guys let their guard down when they all went on a lunch-break.
They did not heed # 57.  They should have left someone behind.  However, clearly they were never expecting the brazenness of the theft that took place, and it was an ingenious nuance to theft in general.

Who knows, arrests may be about to happen, and things are deliberately low key right now so as not to spook the thieves.  (Law enforcement does not want to tip their hand.)  Nothing new about the theft has appeared in the news for days, now.

Security Tactics for Dealers Attending Coin Shows

Dealers who participate in coin shows are potential targets of numismatic predators. The following tactics and practices provide dealers and their employees with a basic safety plan that will help reduce the chances of becoming a numismatic crime victim.
 
1.  Take the time to learn about the show you will be attending and the area in which it is located.

2.  Contact the bourse chairman to answer any additional questions such as location of loading and unloading areas. (Possible construction areas, road closings close to venue, etc.)

3.  If traveling by personal car plan most direct route and determine any construction or choke points. (Contact State Police or State Transportation Department for this type of information)  Identify any potential weather issues that would cause travel problems.  Determine if there are any cellphone dead spots along your route.  Always be alert to suspicious vehicles.

4.  Travel with someone and let a family member know your route and estimated time of arrival.

5.  Inventory coins and leave copy on home/office computer.  (Downloading to a flash drive provides an additional layer of documentation.) 

6.  Upon arrival locate unloading area and make sure adequate security is in place while unloading (loading).  Before exiting your vehicle look around for any suspicious persons, vehicles or activity.

7.  Do not let cell phones distract you (Texting and talking) while loading and unloading.

8.  Once you have unloaded do not park in a secluded parking lot or one that does not have adequate lighting after dark.

9.  Always be alert to the surroundings when going to and from your vehicle.  Do not use cell phone.

10.  If you are arriving by air and taking a cab, shuttle or limousine to the show do not take your eyes off your bags until they are secured within the vehicle.  In situations where you are using a shuttle stay at the rear until the last piece of luggage is loaded and then board.  (Do not let any distraction cause you to take your eyes off of your bags.)

11.  If possible keep the most valuable bag in your possession.

12.  Do not advertise you are a coin dealer and going to the coin show.

13.  When you get to the show and exit the vehicle be alert to the surroundings while your bags are being unloaded.  (Do not let any distraction cause you take your eyes off of your bags.)

14.  Once inside the show check-in and immediately put on your show credentials.

15.  When you arrive at your table secure inventory behind table before you start arranging cases, lamps and chairs.  DO NOT LEAVE ANYTHING IN AISLE.

16.  Identify who is on each side and behind you.

17.  Do not let other dealers or early birds look at coins until set-up is complete. This will eliminate any distractions and maintains control of inventory.

18.  Do not display more material than you can control.

19.  Once set-up is complete take photos with your phone to document your presence at show.  (Insurance and Law Enforcement purposes).

20.  Take photos of individual cases.  (Insurance and Law Enforcement purposes)

21.  Use extra cases on backup table to secure additional inventory, money bags and invoices.

22.  Do not keep cash, invoices, checkbooks or itemized inventory listing in same location.

23.  Secure briefcases to backup table with cable locks.

24.  If you occupy a corner table make sure back-up inventory cannot be reached by customers.

25.  Look around and locate all exits emergency and non-emergency. Familiarize yourself with the entire room.

26.  Fire Alarms – Know the protocol of the facility if a fire alarm is tripped and mandatory evacuation is required.  (real or false)

27.  Develop a mental plan of escape if an emergency arises that requires immediate evacuation of the bourse floor.

28.  Keep a small LED flashlight within easy reach in case of power failure within the bourse floor.  (It does happen!!)

29.  If lights go out illuminate flashlight and have customers push back away from the table and remain outside-affiliatelinksnotallowed  Close cases immediately.

30.  Cases should be locked at all times including those on backup table.

31.  Be familiar with security personnel.

32.  Know how to contact security during the show if needed.

33.  Know how to contact a show representative during the show if needed.

34.  Know how to contact a show representative after show closes in case of an accident or medical emergency.

35.  When dealing with customers show only one coin at a time.

36.  If you are alone do not show coins to multiple customers at one time.  Suspects working in pairs often utilize this method to keep a dealer distracted.

37.  Coin thieves will migrate to dealer tables that are extremely busy and easily distracted.

38.  Coin thieves look for dealers who are vulnerable.

39.  In many cases a person’s unusual head and eye movements raise suspicious red flags.

40.  Always watch a person’s hands carefully.

41.  Do not let customers place personal items on show case.

42.  When showing raw coins watch hand movements for palming of coins. In many cases a person looking through a box will pull out several coins hold in palm and continue to look through box.

43.  Closely watch persons who pull out several coins lay them out on case and continue to look through box. This creates an additional distraction and allows for easy palming.

44.  Be aware that suspects may work in pairs.  (Males or Male and Female)

45.  Remember there is no distinctive profile of what a thief looks like!!

46.  When working in pairs, the M.O. is for one suspect to be looking at coins while the other one asks questions to create a distraction.

47.  Do not let customers pull out their coins for comparison unless you are watching carefully. In some cases this could be used as a means of switching coins/paper money.

48.  Do not turn your back to customers.

49.  Be suspicious of persons asking unsolicited questions about your travel or value of inventory.

50.  Never divulge to any person you do not know that you are traveling alone.

51.  Utilize your cell phone camera/video to photograph/video and document suspicious persons.

52.  Alert security of suspicious persons or activity on the bourse floor.

53.  Distractions – Organized groups will often use distraction methods such as a person fainting, fake heart attack or dropping a small child to open a window of opportunity for an accomplice to steal while at your table.

54.  Due to the quality of counterfeits, carefully evaluate all purchases from the public. (Suspects will try to sell counterfeits to dealers who are extremely busy and will not take the time to carefully examine the coins.)

55.  If you take a check for purchases - photograph check and identification (require two types of ID) with your cell phone camera. Carefully evaluate photo identification for quality and make sure the photo matches the person making the transaction.  (Although be aware that good counterfeit ID’s will have matching photos)  The address on the check and identification should match.  Do not take postdated checks.  If you are still suspicious ask for other pieces of identification.

56.  Immediately place large cash transactions in money bags and lock in showcase.  Do not display stacks of cash in showcases.

57.  If you need to leave your table, lock all cases and alert dealers next to you or in back that you will return shortly.

58.  Develop and maintain a personal contingency plan:
       a.  If traveling alone keep a list of any medical conditions, medications and emergency contact numbers inside your wallet or purse.
       b.  If you have a medical condition that may be incapacitating — such as diabetes or epilepsy — make sure someone at the show is aware of a potential problem.
       c.  Make sure a family member and fellow dealer in attendance at the show know where you are staying.
       d. Travel with adequate medications
       e.  Identify someone at the show who can secure and take possession of your inventory in case of accident or medical emergency.

59.  When leaving the show at the end of the day do not carry large sums of cash or inventory.

60.  Talk with security or show representatives to identify safe and unsafe venues within the area.

61.  Take off all show credentials before leaving the building.

62.  Do not talk about your business dealings in a public forum (restaurants, bars etc.,). Remember there is no specific profile of what a coin thief looks like.

63.  When carrying coins in a briefcase be alert in areas of congestion that may create an opportunity for theft.  Examples: Food lines, ticket lines, crowded subways, shuttles, elevators etc.,

64.  At the end of the show limit distractions while packing up. Make sure there is adequate security outside when loading. If making several trips to vehicle, have someone watch your table and leave most valuable load for last.

65.  Before driving off check your vehicle for any possible tampering (low tires, leaking fluids etc.,)

66.  Be cognizant of any suspicious persons or vehicles.

67.  Do not be complacent, always be alert to your surroundings – "Do Not Be a Victim……."

...u forgot...carry a big gun....

[Henri Charriere]

On 8/27/2022 at 6:06 PM, zadok said:

...u forgot...carry a big gun....

Firearms are useful in robberies; this was a theft. An act of grand larceny, however defined locally. On the plus side, every Rolex has a unique serial number deeply recorded in bas-relief. I believe with the ubiquity of surveillance cameras outside the venue, and the power of the internet, investigating authorities will make short work of this caper. I wonder whether two guards should have been posted at the entrance(s).

[VKurtB]

On 8/27/2022 at 1:27 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

They didn't sneak it out....according to Charmy, they literally took the entire case.  Sounds like some camera may have caught them.

These venues which are regularly used for conventions or get-togethers should have Hi-Def/4K videos running from multiple locations with zoom-ins.  Recorded in a control room.  Costs a fraction of what it did 20-30 years ago. Thousands of dollars an hour then; maybe $200 an hour today.

There is a security room with about 50 monitors hitting all areas at all times. The theft happened at a time when people leaving and entering would have been routine. I walked into and out of the hall NUMEROUS times with a bag from the U.S. Mint’s booth that could easily have held the stolen goods. The case did not leave. It was found empty. The goods that had been in it were gone. 

[VKurtB]

I never even once saw one sole security officer on duty. Sometimes two, sometimes as many as four. This theft happened on the pre-show day. The ONLY PEOPLE supposed to even be in there were other dealers. There is no public that day. 

Edited August 28, 2022 by VKurtB

[zadok]

On 8/27/2022 at 6:44 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

Firearms are useful in robberies; this was a theft. An act of grand larceny, however defined locally. On the plus side, every Rolex has a unique serial number deeply recorded in bas-relief. I believe with the ubiquity of surveillance cameras outside the venue, and the power of the internet, investigating authorities will make short work of this caper. I wonder whether two guards should have been posted at the entrance(s).

...ur missing the point...u steal my stuff u pay the price, firearms r a great deterrence against theft n other various encroachments including all those walk by assaults in ur fair city....

[Hoghead515]

On 8/28/2022 at 7:42 AM, zadok said:

...ur missing the point...u steal my stuff u pay the price, firearms r a great deterrence against theft n other various encroachments including all those walk by assaults in ur fair city....

Darn right. I pack mine everywhere I go. If crooks see a 44 mag hanging on the side of your hip, it will usually make them think twice. 

[VKurtB]

On 8/28/2022 at 8:01 AM, Hoghead515 said:

Darn right. I pack mine everywhere I go. If crooks see a 44 mag hanging on the side of your hip, it will usually make them think twice. 

Guys! Guys! Think again! I’m as pro 2nd Amendment as anyone. My state goes constitutional carry at midnight 1/1/23. But this is ILLINOIS we’re talking about. And the expo center greets everyone with a NO GUNS sign at the door. 

[VKurtB]

I frankly do NOT believe the “they took the whole case off the floor” story. I was there WITH SHOW MANAGEMENT. That is NOT the way it was being described. 

[zadok]

On 8/28/2022 at 10:42 AM, VKurtB said:

Guys! Guys! Think again! I’m as pro 2nd Amendment as anyone. My state goes constitutional carry at midnight 1/1/23. But this is ILLINOIS we’re talking about. And the expo center greets everyone with a NO GUNS sign at the door. 

...true but no one frisked me n no metal detector...

[zadok]

On 8/28/2022 at 10:50 AM, VKurtB said:

I frankly do NOT believe the “they took the whole case off the floor” story. I was there WITH SHOW MANAGEMENT. That is NOT the way it was being described. 

...have to admit there r a lot of inconsistencies so far in the reports, perhaps ANA will give a more detailed report later, if not public perhaps to dealers...or maybe the victims will make some comments on the circumstances, but usually there r no official releases...best chances of resolving this will be the camera footages n if items show up on market or possibly sherlock goldfinger could be on the trail....

[RWB]

On 8/28/2022 at 9:01 AM, Hoghead515 said:

Darn right. I pack mine everywhere I go. If crooks see a 44 mag hanging on the side of your hip, it will usually make them think twice. 

Or shoot first.... 

[VKurtB]

On 8/28/2022 at 10:27 AM, zadok said:

...true but no one frisked me n no metal detector...

In Illinois, YOU are the one who does time, just for having a sidearm on you. The Chief Judge, Joe Boling, always carries a sidearm to all coin shows EXCEPT those in Illinois. It’s a crime to carry. Even passing THROUGH Illinois with an otherwise licensed firearm is a crime. But don’t mess with him in Pittsburgh. 

Edited August 28, 2022 by VKurtB

[Hoghead515]

On 8/28/2022 at 2:24 PM, VKurtB said:

In Illinois, YOU are the one who does time, just for having a sidearm on you. The Chief Judge, Joe Boling, always carries a sidearm to all coin shows EXCEPT those in Illinois. It’s a crime to carry. Even passing THROUGH Illinois with an otherwise licensed firearm is a crime. But don’t mess with him in Pittsburgh. 

Ever notice how in Illinois its illegal to carry a side arm. And Chicago is one of the cities with the highest crime rate. They need to smarten up and let people defend themseleves from the crooks. The crooks will still carry if its illegal or not. Its the innocent people who cant protect themselves who are suffering from this unjust law. Sorry I kinda went off topic friends. Please forgive me. In no way do I mean for this post to be political. It just burns my hide to see innocent people become victims because theyre not allowed to defend themselves. 

[VKurtB]

On 8/28/2022 at 1:47 PM, Hoghead515 said:

Ever notice how in Illinois its illegal to carry a side arm. And Chicago is one of the cities with the highest crime rate. They need to smarten up and let people defend themseleves from the crooks. The crooks will still carry if its illegal or not. Its the innocent people who cant protect themselves who are suffering from this unjust law. Sorry I kinda went off topic friends. Please forgive me. In no way do I mean for this post to be political. It just burns my hide to see innocent people become victims because theyre not allowed to defend themselves. 

In Chicago, (and Philly), the FIRST priority is protecting yourself from rogue cops. They’re FAAAAAR more dangerous than the crooks. 

[Henri Charriere]

With all due respect, I am going to stand my ground on this one. NOBODY WAS HELD UP! All the guns and artillery shells are superfluous against a criminal act carried out in stealth. The theft was  discovered after the fact. I harbor not a doubt it will be solved. Unless, of course, the guy we all know and love insists on a quid pro quo: "Yes I took all the picture ID'S. But what's in it for me? Free lifetime attendance privileges?"    

I just couldn't help myself. And before I scurry off, a hearty hello to @Hoghead515

 

[VKurtB]

On 8/28/2022 at 2:09 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

With all due respect, I am going to stand my ground on this one. NOBODY WAS HELD UP! All the guns and artillery shells are superfluous against a criminal act carried out in stealth. The theft was  discovered after the fact. I harbor not a doubt it will be solved. Unless, of course, the guy we all know and love insists on a quid pro quo: "Yes I took all the picture ID'S. But what's in it for me? Free lifetime attendance privileges?"    

I just couldn't help myself. And before I scurry off, a hearty hello to @Hoghead515

 

There are too many “problems” with the prevailing story. Supposedly the thieves simply grabbed the whole case, put it on a dolly, and went out a side exit? They had on Staff shirts or jackets? There is no such thing. One guy routinely drags around a dolly with cases, the ANA Convention Floor Manager, a dude I know as Sam. Before I was assigned to Dealer Reg., backing up Sam was one of my jobs. The whole public story has more holes than Roger’s albums (because, you see, he doesn’t collect anymore).

Edited August 28, 2022 by VKurtB

[Henri Charriere]

On 8/28/2022 at 3:19 PM, VKurtB said:

.... The whole public story has more holes than Roger’s albums (because, you see, he doesn’t collect anymore).

That's a cold shot!  True, but a cold shot, nevertheless.

The theft will be solved, no doubt about it, but the Great z is probably right. Disclosing the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, would expose vulnerabilities which would be against interest. This has not been broached before, to my knowledge, but this is beginning to sound more and more like an "inside job."  There are simply to many things you would have to know to pull off something Iike this. And the most telling clue is the lack of time available to test-drive a scenario. Now we learn the public wasn't even in attendance yet! Cats are very observant. I believe "Penny" saw something, but she can't say something.  Besides, how do you interview, interrogate and cross-examine a cat?   

[VKurtB]

On 8/28/2022 at 2:35 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

That's a cold shot!  True, but a cold shot, nevertheless.

The theft will be solved, no doubt about it, but the Great z is probably right. Disclosing the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, would expose vulnerabilities which would be against interest. This has not been broached before, to my knowledge, but this is beginning to sound more and more like an "inside job."  There are simply to many things you would have to know to pull off something Iike this. And the most telling clue is the lack of time available to test-drive a scenario. Now we learn the public wasn't even in attendance yet! Cats are very observant. I believe "Penny" saw something, but she can't say something.  Besides, how do you interview, interrogate and cross-examine a cat?   

This happened on MONDAY. The actual ANA show did not open until TUESDAY at 12:45PM. The theft happened more than 24 hours (!!!!) before the ribbon cutting. The Monday session is what used to be the PNG pre-show. Starting last year, the ANA took over the pre-show from the PNG. Even “regular” ANA table holding dealers had no damned business being on the floor Monday, although they were griping loudly about that. A maroon vertical ribbon, or Exhibitor, Staff, or Volunteer vertical ribbon was required to access the floor on Monday. 
 

There are two levels of Dealer credential. The gold one was for Tuesday thru Saturday. The maroon one was for Monday only. MANY MANY dealers were angry about not getting to set up on Monday. READ THE DARNED PACKET MATERIALS!!!!!

Edited August 28, 2022 by VKurtB

[zadok]

On 8/28/2022 at 2:24 PM, VKurtB said:

In Illinois, YOU are the one who does time, just for having a sidearm on you. The Chief Judge, Joe Boling, always carries a sidearm to all coin shows EXCEPT those in Illinois. It’s a crime to carry. Even passing THROUGH Illinois with an otherwise licensed firearm is a crime. But don’t mess with him in Pittsburgh. 

...i am aware...but then there r somethings i just take exception to....

[USAuPzlBxBob]

Here is what can be found on CU (ATS):

Another theft? On Monday before I arrived I was told of another theft. This is the best story/rambling that I got but I can not confirm all of it. There was a theft of a case full of Rolex watches on Monday dealer day. The way that I heard it went (and again I can not confirm all of this) is that a couple of guys in apparent convention service T-shirts entered the bourse. They got a flat floor dolly with some empty cases and were going around. Sometimes dealers ask for an additional case or have an issue with a case and request a replacement. They went up to the dealers table and switched out the Rolex watches case on the dealers table with an empty case. I assume the dealer was not at the table and that they placed the Rolex watch case beneath an empty case on the dolly. They exited out a back-side door. I was told there was a convention person at the door but the people had apparent convention 'wear' on and so were not questioned when exiting with the apparent empty cases. Again this is the best story that I heard of how it happened but I can not confirm it.

[zadok]

On 8/28/2022 at 3:35 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

That's a cold shot!  True, but a cold shot, nevertheless.

The theft will be solved, no doubt about it, but the Great z is probably right. Disclosing the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, would expose vulnerabilities which would be against interest. This has not been broached before, to my knowledge, but this is beginning to sound more and more like an "inside job."  There are simply to many things you would have to know to pull off something Iike this. And the most telling clue is the lack of time available to test-drive a scenario. Now we learn the public wasn't even in attendance yet! Cats are very observant. I believe "Penny" saw something, but she can't say something.  Besides, how do you interview, interrogate and cross-examine a cat?   

...to best my knowlege Penny doesnt travel, she stays home n guards the wine cellar...todays professional thieves r just that n extremely professional, im reasonably sure this caper was rehearsed n maybe even as early as last years ANA in chicago...it was not a simple smash n grab...true it was not an armed robbery but makes no diff, theif beware....

[VKurtB]

Here’s the better question. WHY WAS A WATCH DEALER on the pre-show (dealer to dealer only) floor in the first place??? Hmm??? Sounds sketchy to me. Just saying, could be an insurance fraud scam, too. I mean, jewelry dealers make sense on public days. But the dealer to dealer only pre-show day?!?! C’mon! Don’t be so naive. 

Edited August 28, 2022 by VKurtB

[zadok]

On 8/28/2022 at 4:56 PM, VKurtB said:

Here’s the better question. WHY WAS A WATCH DEALER on the pre-show (dealer to dealer only) floor in the first place??? Hmm??? Sounds sketchy to me. Just saying, could be an insurance fraud scam, too. I mean, jewelry dealers make sense on public days. But the dealer to dealer only pre-show day?!?! C’mon! Don’t be so naive. 

...lot more questions than answers so far, my initial thought when first heard about the theft was...r the watches real n they needed to be stolen before anyone started looking at them? but insurance companys want purchase receipts, so would require real ones be purchased n substituted n stolen...n then the matter of serial numbers when resold...bit too many hurdles...

[Henri Charriere]

On 8/28/2022 at 4:29 PM, zadok said:

...i am aware...but then there r somethings i just take exception to....

You will be delighted to learn that due to a lawsuit filed on behalf of two New Yorkers, the U.S. Supreme Court declared illegal a law dating back to 1909 requiring applicants for carry-permits provide proof of need in support of their request. The NYPD declared anyone who had previously applied, and been denied a carry-permit, may reapply and the fee would be waived. "Start spreading the news," as Sinatra once crooned.  [I can't wait to see a guy  pull out a gun on the subway and bark: Turn the volume down on that rap , or I'll let you have it!"]  I love New York and I love this Forum!  

[GoldFinger1969]

On 8/28/2022 at 2:47 PM, Hoghead515 said:

Ever notice how in Illinois its illegal to carry a side arm. And Chicago is one of the cities with the highest crime rate. They need to smarten up and let people defend themseleves from the crooks. The crooks will still carry if its illegal or not. Its the innocent people who cant protect themselves who are suffering from this unjust law. Sorry I kinda went off topic friends. Please forgive me. In no way do I mean for this post to be political. It just burns my hide to see innocent people become victims because theyre not allowed to defend themselves. 

You're assuming the leaders in those areas care about the killings.  Trust me, they do NOT. 

[Henri Charriere]

On 8/28/2022 at 5:33 PM, zadok said:

...lot more questions than answers so far, my initial thought when first heard about the theft was...r the watches real n they needed to be stolen before anyone started looking at them? but insurance companys want purchase receipts, so would require real ones be purchased n substituted n stolen...n then the matter of serial numbers when resold...bit too many hurdles...

Not to mention serial numbers are checked before any watch, men's or lady's, is serviced. That is a fact. Unless, of course, they are spirited out of the country. I would guess any "fence" involved would offer them a fraction of their total worth due to the heat of publicity and those pesky serial numbers. If the coins were slabbed, that's an additional hurdle. Then again, the $500,000 art heist at the Gardner Museum in 1990, to my knowledge, remains unsolved.

Edited August 28, 2022 by Quintus Arrius
Addition of specific details re Gardner heist.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 8/28/2022 at 6:50 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

Then again, the $500,000 art heist at the Gardner Museum in 1990, to my knowledge, remains unsolved.

With that being said, I want to come clean and acknowledge guilt in participating......