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Just got this back from grading and wonder if I should question why they didnt include the mint mark
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23 posts in this topic

4869245_Full_Obv.jpg?q=07182022013253

Here is the coin with the W mint mark, yet when it was graded they didn't include that in the label, I checked my submission form and I did include the W on the line item. What do you think?

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What you have here is the bullion silver eagle, there is not a mint mark on bullion coins, the w you see is an aw, initials for Adolf A. Weinman, the designer of the obverse of this coin and the walking liberty half dollar. W mint marks are on the reverse of the proof and burnished silver eagles only. Others may give you more info.

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Jimbo is correct.  The mark on the obverse are the initials for the designer of the Walking Liberty which that design is based on.  If there is no mint mark on the reverse (likely not with that NGC label) then it's a bullion coin, intended to only be of value based on the amount of silver it contains.  Only the "Uncirculated" coins (what others call "Burnished" coins) and the Proof coins have "W" mint marks on the reverse, or "S" mint marks later this year.  See attached pic and links below.  If you did submit a burnished coin, with a "W" mark on the reverse, then that label is a mistake, and you need to contact NGC.  In any event I'm glad you got an MS-70, even if it is a bullion coin worth only a little more than melt value.  ;-)

Some people confuse the burnished coins with bullion coins available from dealers, because the dealers often sell the bullion coins in BU condition, meaning Brilliant Uncirculated.  The BU just indicates they took the bullion coins from large, sealed boxes they got directly from the mint, which have not been put into general circulation, and not that the coin is the more collectable burnished coin.  I say it might be intentional mis-marketing ... lol

American Eagle Silver Bullion Coins | U.S. Mint (usmint.gov)

2022 American Eagle One Ounce Silver Uncirculated Coin | U.S. Mint (usmint.gov)

2022 American Silver Eagle Coin UNC Obv & Rev - US Mint 2.jpg

Edited by EagleRJO
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Well, labeling a West Point bullion coin with just "2022" without any letter or "2022 (W)" is essentially the same thing. I guess he could request the 2022 (W) if NGC was willing to do that no charge, considering he says he did put the "W" on the submission form.

I am assuming you haven't had your coffee yet Hog, so I won't quote the typo ... ;-)

Edited by EagleRJO
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On 7/18/2022 at 5:25 AM, EagleRJO said:

Hog, the first one you posted is a "burnished" or "uncirculated" coin that has a mint mark. That second one is a bullion coin, just an alternate way to label it with the W in parentheses indicating where it was struck when there is no mint mark, which bullion coins do not 

Bullion coins are uncirculated coins. My mistake. I was seeing a W that wasnt there. lol Got up to early. Look over me EagleRJO. I was looking at the picture on your post instead of the op's. 

Edited by Hoghead515
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Bullion coins may not be uncirculated depending on how you get them.  But the US Mint does not refer to bullion coins as "uncirculated" coins.  That is a dealer convention (which I say is intentional mis-marketing ... lol), and the US Mint only uses that term for "burnished" coins.  And here is another example of a bullion coin that was NGC graded/slabbed with no mint mark.

Hog ... NP, I think you need to have your morning coffee first before posting  ;-)

Bullion Coin MS-70 NGC.png

Edited by EagleRJO
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Thank you, everyone! I learned something! I see what you mean now. It's something with the T-2 design. My earlier MS eagle coins are like what EagleRJO posted without the 'W' under 'In God We Trust' and with the information that 'Jimbo' posted explained it well. Thank you, thank you!

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On 7/18/2022 at 9:09 AM, KatradTX said:

Thank you, everyone! I learned something! I see what you mean now. It's something with the T-2 design. My earlier MS eagle coins are like what EagleRJO posted without the 'W' under 'In God We Trust' and with the information that 'Jimbo' posted explained it well. Thank you, thank you!

That’s AW, not W. 

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Yea, the first time I saw that mark on the obv I was like "ah, they put a W mint mark on the obv" ... them I realized there was no way a mint mark would end up there, and looked up what it was.

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On 7/18/2022 at 5:41 AM, EagleRJO said:

Bullion coins may not be uncirculated depending on how you get them.

Bullion coins are uncirculated unless they have received wear from mis-handling, or from actually having been is circulation. (which is rare, but has been know to happen)

On 7/18/2022 at 5:41 AM, EagleRJO said:

But the US Mint does not refer to bullion coins as "uncirculated" coins.  That is a dealer convention (which I say is intentional mis-marketing ... lol)

It was standard terminology in the hobby until the Mint started making the "burnished" coins and threw a monkey wrench into the works by calling them Uncirculated. (After over 30 years of the bullion coins being listed as Uncirculated by dealers and collectors.)

 

On 7/18/2022 at 5:41 AM, EagleRJO said:

and the US Mint only uses that term for "burnished" coins.

Internally they also use it for coins intended for collector sets.  Coins struck intended to be released into circulation are referred to internally as Circulated coins

 

On 7/18/2022 at 5:41 AM, EagleRJO said:

And here is another example of a bullion coin that was NGC graded/slabbed with no mint mark.

The TPG's only indicate a mintmark on bullion pieces when unopened green monster boxes are submitted with banding on them that indicates a mint other than West Point.  Normally all the bullion coins are struck at West Point but from time to time they have been struck a Philadelphia or San Francisco as well.  When that happens and the unopened monster box is submitted the striking mint is indicated on the holder by a (P) or (S)

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On 7/19/2022 at 11:43 AM, Conder101 said:

Bullion coins are uncirculated unless they have received wear from mis-handling, or from actually having been is circulation. (which is rare, but has been know to happen) ...

Once someone gets a bullion coin and it's not slabbed/protected I think it becomes "circulated".  I collect ASEs, including the proof & bullion coins, and see the older bullion coins listed as "Circulated" or "Not Certified as Uncirculated" all the time.  Check out sites for some of the larger dealers like JM Bullion (Buy All American Silver Eagles | JM Bullion) and eBay listings like these: 1993 CIRCULATED American Silver Eagle 1 Troy Oz .999 Fine Silver $19.93 START ... 2005 American Silver Eagle Dollar Coin 1 oz. Fine Silver - Circulated.  They are a little less expensive if you're not worried about getting BU ones and having them TPG slabbed, which I don't really care about as long as they are in good condition and isn't really needed or cost effective for a bullion coin, unless you are including them in a Registry Set.

On 7/19/2022 at 11:43 AM, Conder101 said:

Internally they also use it for coins intended for collector sets.  Coins struck intended to be released into circulation are referred to internally as Circulated coins

To me "uncirculated" means regular circulation-strike (or business-strike) coins and bullion intended for commerce or trading but never actually used as such.  And even for sets they describe them as having an "uncirculated finish".  I don't know why the US Mint doesn't just call the "uncirculated" coins "burnished" coins like most in common usage, and even how they are listed in the Red Book.

On 7/19/2022 at 11:43 AM, Conder101 said:

The TPG's only indicate a mintmark on bullion pieces when unopened green monster boxes are submitted with banding on them that indicates a mint other than West Point.

So, I guess he is SOL on getting the (W) added to his label ... oh well, it was just a thought.

Edited by EagleRJO
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I have a full set of BU  ASE's I purchased from dealers they are not in graded TP holders but every one of them came from the mint in tubes to the dealer and then to me. So I would say these coins are uncirculated they are ASE's and were never intended for circulation they are bullion coins with dates and a denomination of one dollar on them. I never see any ASE's at the bank. People don't use them to buy anything so in my opinion they are all uncirculated bullion coins.  

ASE 86 to 22.jpg

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On 7/19/2022 at 9:59 PM, J P Mashoke said:

I have a full set of BU ASE's I purchased from dealers they are not in graded TP holders but every one of them came from the mint in tubes to the dealer and then to me. So I would say these coins are uncirculated they are ASE's and were never intended for circulation they are bullion coins with dates and a denomination of one dollar on them. I never see any ASE's at the bank. People don't use them to buy anything so in my opinion they are all uncirculated bullion coins. 

I agree those would be uncirculated bullion coins if they were put in the plastic capsules right off the bat.  I did say if they were not "slabbed/protected" then they would become "circulated", which is not the case with the ASEs you have.  Putting them in the capsules does protect them.  Now if you just handle them with your hands and toss them in safe drawers along with some other bullion coins, bullion bars, etc. like my brother does you will probably end up causing minor scratches, scuff marks, etc. consistent with something being circulated,

I'm not saying bullion coins are the same as currency coins that you can get at the bank or buy things with directly, although I guess one could barter with them based on a spot price for that precious metal.  But I could only see that happening at a coin dealer or pawn shop.  Imagine the look on the grocery store check-out girls face if you ring up a $65 amount and hand her 4 silver ASE's and tell her at a spot of $20/oz that's $80 in silver, can I have my change in singles ... lol

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Heres a bullion coin from a major TPG. All the bullion coins are considered uncirculated until the devices show wear on them. They had to strike some at phillyand san frisc during the covid scare.  The reason we all call them uncirculated is because its very unlikely these get circulation wear. Youd have to really neglect them. Lumii_20220720_041732204.thumb.jpg.0633e66eb329366aec9d2c18ba55ffff.jpg

Edited by Hoghead515
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Its possible to scratch one or clean it and it still be considered uncirculated. It will say UNC details on the slab if you try to have the coin certified. To show circulation it would have to get handled quite a bit. Or slide around in a drawer or surface where it caused enough friction to show it on the devices. 

Edited by Hoghead515
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Sweet, thanks @J P Mashoke and @Hoghead515, that is good to know.  I may buy a bunch of the "circulated" or "not certified as uncirculated" bullion coins from dealers like JMB to fill in a bunch of late 1900's to early 2000's slots I am missing in order to save some $ and focus on the Proof ASEs for my collection.

Like one of those for 1996(W) would cost $50 thru JMB, but if I wanted guaranteed BU condition it would be like $100 from APMEX.  They are just bullion coins and probably look just as nice as the pricier BU ones. Glad to know they will likely grade out to MS if I ever send them in to do a Registry Set for ASEs.  Party time ... lol

BTW, nice ASE collection JP.  Is that each year of the bullion coins thru 2022, plus some proofs/burnished ones?

Edited by EagleRJO
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On 7/20/2022 at 11:48 AM, EagleRJO said:

Sweet, thanks @J P Mashoke and @Hoghead515, that is good to know.  I may buy a bunch of the "circulated" or "not certified as uncirculated" bullion coins from dealers like JMB to fill in a bunch of late 1900's to early 2000's slots I am missing in order to save some $ and focus on the Proof ASEs for my collection.

Like one of those for 1996(W) would cost $50 thru JMB, but if I wanted guaranteed BU condition it would be like $100 from APMEX.  They are just bullion coins and probably look just as nice as the pricier BU ones. Glad to know they will likely grade out to MS if I ever send them in to do a Registry Set for ASEs.  Party time ... lol

BTW, nice ASE collection JP.  Is that each year of the bullion coins thru 2022, plus some proofs/burnished ones?

They are 86-22 all regular strike ASE except there is a 2007 proof in there. At the time I took this shot I had not found a 2007 to complete the regular set. I have it now. 

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