US Mint Going on the Cheap Now? 1 1

[EagleRJO]

Prior to Mid 2021 the US Mint used these really nice felt display boxes embossed with a metal emblem on the top of an eagle and shield (see photo, left side) for the Proof ASEs, which came inside the outer cardboard mint box.  Later in 2021 and now into 2022 the US Mint is going with a really cheesy felt adhered plastic holder that just goes in the outer box (see photo, right side).  I really liked the old-style felt display box, and I'm pretty disappointed with the mint going with such a cheap cheesy replacement, so I sent them a complaint.  What is the US Mint running out of money?  ;-)

[Coinbuf]

The director needed a raise so he can still afford tacos on taco Tuesday. 

[EagleRJO]

That, and they are still paying off Bill Clintons cheeseburgers ... lol.

Maybe the change because many are stabbing the ASEs?  But still the ASE felt display boxes were really nice.

[RWB]

An internal proposal, as I have been told by a reliable source, is to begin shipping proof ASEs to bulk retailers packaged only in capsules. I do not know if that has been adopted.

[VKurtB]

On 7/15/2022 at 6:13 PM, RWB said:

An internal proposal, as I have been told by a reliable source, is to begin shipping proof ASEs to bulk retailers packaged only in capsules. I do not know if that has been adopted.

It has. 

[EagleRJO]

Maybe starting in 2023?  I just confirmed that my 2022-S Proof ASEs from the Proof ASE program enrollment are going to be fulfilled/shipped in August.

If they do switch I imagine that they will sell them to dealers at a hefty bulk discount, and without the cost of boxes, which could be a bulk separate buy, so that with a dealer mark up it may be the same price, or maybe less w/o a box if you plan to get them TPG slabbed.

The only bummer is that it would be bye bye being pretty confident you would at least get 3 each production enrollment.

[VKurtB]

The bulk purchase program is not a secret. Nor is there any reason for questions about it. It is right there on the Mint’s website, which IS GOOD for things other than ordering coins. 
 

https://catalog.usmint.gov/bulk-purchase-program-landing.html

 

Edited July 16, 2022 by VKurtB

[EagleRJO]

I don't see that it replaces or eliminates the individual program enrollments, but maybe that's why the last popular coins did ship out enrollments but weren't even avail to the public thru the online store cause they were already sold out.

[World Colonial]

In response to the OP's question, I presume it's a cost saving move due to the requirement to price everything using full cost accounting.

It's already $73 for what is now $19 in silver.  I understand the limit is 746,000 which if it sells out, almost certainly means it's going to be another money loser later, absent a big run up in silver spot.

Edited July 16, 2022 by World Colonial

[Mr.Bill347]

I share in the disappointment in the current packaging. Twinkies are better protected than the proof ASEs. T”my Morgan CC arrived Out of its capsule. Fortunately it still pulled an MS70, my good luck. These cheesy holders are cheap! Now according the our very reliable sources, we are not even going to get the twinkies plastic.I’m pretty sure I’ll be disenrolling!

[EagleRJO]

So, you think even the proof enrollments are going to just get the cheap plastic capsules? What are they going to do, wrap it in old newspapers or left-over gift wrap and mail it to you in a plain cardboard box like some of the eBay buys you get ... smh.

[World Colonial]

$73 is a lot for $19 of silver because that's what the US Mint is actually selling.  The relevant question seems to be, how much can the US Mint raise prices to cover increasing costs without pricing out most of the customer base?

This is the underlying economic problem in the coin industry business model.  As long as the collector base is growing with increasing flow of funds, increasing costs aren't a problem, in the aggregate.

As soon as prices stagnate or decline for any period of time, the business model breaks down, in whole or in part. 

It's reflected in US Mint pricing.  It shows up in higher TPG and auction fees.  eBay essentially ruined their selling platform for most coins years ago, though I think that was more driven by efforts to increase profits and beat EPS estimates.  I don't buy or sell at B&M dealers, but this is also part of the reason more of them are closing.

The reason it's a problem is two-fold.

First, most collectors aren't going to spend increasing amounts or proportions of their coin budget on incidental hobby expenses.  Coin budgets are predominantly to buy coins, not to cover the industry's costs or provide it with profits.  It's a discretionary purchase, always.

Second, many collectors either can't or won't increase their coin budgets to compensate for it, certainly not with 40-YR high inflation and tightening credit conditions.

[VKurtB]

On 7/15/2022 at 11:07 PM, EagleRJO said:

So, you think even the proof enrollments are going to just get the cheap plastic capsules? What are they going to do, wrap it in old newspapers or left-over gift wrap and mail it to you in a plain cardboard box like some of the eBay buys you get ... smh.

They can’t opt for capsules. Only bulk purchases can. 

[EagleRJO]

On 7/16/2022 at 2:15 PM, VKurtB said:

They can’t opt for capsules. Only bulk purchases can. 

I didn't mean to suggest that you could opt for capsules, but mussing about the mint going on the cheap and first sending out the proof coins in these cheap plastic capsules set in super cheap plastic holders with glued on felt just stuffed in a box ... and that maybe next the mint will decide to send them out in the cheap plastic capsules wrapped in old newspaper and stuffed in plain folded up bubble wrap with scotch tape to make a shipping bag ... smh.  The US Mint must be running out of money ...

Edited July 17, 2022 by EagleRJO

[VKurtB]

On 7/16/2022 at 1:56 PM, EagleRJO said:

I didn't mean to suggest that you could opt for capsules, but mussing about the mint going on the cheap and first sending out the proof coins in these super cheap plastic holders with glued on felt just stuffed in a box, and that maybe next is them deciding to send them out in those cheap plastic capsules wrapped in old newspaper and stuffed in a plain bubble wrap fold over bag with scotch tape ... smh.  The US Mint must be running out of money ...

I haven’t bought ASE proofs for quite a few years. I buy the Uncirculated/Burnished ones only, and they have been in minimal packaging all along - flocked cardboard. Are you saying the proofs are now coming that way too? No spring loaded velour thingies any more? Interesting. 

[J P M]

I think I saw somewhere you can buy the spring loaded velour thingies all alone without coins in them ? 

[EagleRJO]

On 7/16/2022 at 5:04 PM, VKurtB said:

I haven’t bought ASE proofs for quite a few years. I buy the Uncirculated/Burnished ones only, and they have been in minimal packaging all along - flocked cardboard. Are you saying the proofs are now coming that way too? No spring loaded velour thingies any more? Interesting. 

I only buy the proofs because I have the uncirculated bullion coins (like Mint Direct or Mint Sealed, not burnished) going back to 2005, plus a few other years, for little more than bullion bars.  For the Proof ASEs no more really nice blue velour spring-loaded clamshell style display boxes since mid-2021 (see the pics).  I swear it's because the US Mint is running out of money ...

But maybe that's a better way to go because some put the proofs in TPG slab coffins.  JP, you can buy them separately ...  OGP Box & COA - 2021-W Silver American Eagle Proof (Empty) 

[J P M]

On 7/16/2022 at 10:32 PM, EagleRJO said:

I only buy the proofs because I have the uncirculated bullion coins (like Mint Direct or Mint Sealed, not burnished) going back to 2005, plus a few other years, for little more than bullion bars.  For the Proof ASEs no more really nice blue velour spring-loaded clamshell style display boxes since mid-2021 (see the pics).  I swear it's because the US Mint is running out of money ...

But maybe that's a better way to go because some put the proofs in TPG slab coffins.  JP, you can buy them separately ...  OGP Box & COA - 2021-W Silver American Eagle Proof (Empty) 

Yes I knew I had seen them for sale at some of the online sites. It matters not to me I have never bought anything from the mint and have no reason to start now.

[MN1]

On 7/15/2022 at 7:13 PM, RWB said:

An internal proposal, as I have been told by a reliable source, is to begin shipping proof ASEs to bulk retailers packaged only in capsules. I do not know if that has been adopted.

If to APMEX and MCM who will then have graded and resell in PCGS and NGC holders it would not matter to me because that would sort of be behind the scenes. However if I were to buy one or any new coin for that matter I want it packaged better.  I don't want a capsule with fingerprints, scuffs, or scratches.  

Luckily I am not into modern coins but still for those who are, it is disappointing.  

[EagleRJO]

On 7/17/2022 at 8:09 AM, J P Mashoke said:

Yes I knew I had seen them for sale at some of the online sites. It matters not to me I have never bought anything from the mint and have no reason to start now.

When possible, I buy direct from the mint so I am 100% sure of what I am getting. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 7/16/2022 at 12:01 PM, World Colonial said:

$73 is a lot for $19 of silver because that's what the US Mint is actually selling.  The relevant question seems to be, how much can the US Mint raise prices to cover increasing costs without pricing out most of the customer base?  This is the underlying economic problem in the coin industry business model.  As long as the collector base is growing with increasing flow of funds, increasing costs aren't a problem, in the aggregate.  As soon as prices stagnate or decline for any period of time, the business model breaks down, in whole or in part. It's reflected in US Mint pricing.  It shows up in higher TPG and auction fees.  eBay essentially ruined their selling platform for most coins years ago, though I think that was more driven by efforts to increase profits and beat EPS estimates.  I don't buy or sell at B&M dealers, but this is also part of the reason more of them are closing.  The reason it's a problem is two-fold.  First, most collectors aren't going to spend increasing amounts or proportions of their coin budget on incidental hobby expenses.  Coin budgets are predominantly to buy coins, not to cover the industry's costs or provide it with profits.  It's a discretionary purchase, always.  Second, many collectors either can't or won't increase their coin budgets to compensate for it, certainly not with 40-YR high inflation and tightening credit conditions.

If folks are willing to buy ASEs at a slight-to-low premium to the underlying silver price...and that price rises too high for plain-vanilla ASEs....I think folks will turn to pure bullion coins or those close to it like circulated/worn Morgans or even bars etc.

[World Colonial]

On 7/22/2022 at 3:55 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

If folks are willing to buy ASEs at a slight-to-low premium to the underlying silver price...and that price rises too high for plain-vanilla ASEs....I think folks will turn to pure bullion coins or those close to it like circulated/worn Morgans or even bars etc.

My opinion too.