Lincoln values when discontinued next year-please give me your 2 cents 2 2

[gmarguli]

On 5/31/2022 at 5:00 PM, RWB said:

The "rounding argument" has been used since the half cent was eliminated. The presumption is that the sell would always round up in their favor, thus causing the buyer to lose a small amount with every transaction. The proposal I made (and made by many, many others) eliminates that by including round-up/round-down specifications in the law. Further, the present move away from cash transactions means that the majority of purchases would be completely unaffected. The annualized loss or gain totals just 3-cents.

I've read articles on studies that were done. If rounded as should instead of paying exact, the consumer would benefit by around 25c/year. If the store rounded in their favor every single time, the average cash-only paying consumer would be deprived of around $8/year. 

Not exactly life altering amounts either way. 

[VKurtB]

On 6/1/2022 at 11:54 AM, gmarguli said:

I've read articles on studies that were done. If rounded as should instead of paying exact, the consumer would benefit by around 25c/year. If the store rounded in their favor every single time, the average cash-only paying consumer would be deprived of around $8/year. 

Not exactly life altering amounts either way. 

I still haven’t fully gotten over the gas station rounding up all those 9/10ths of a cent. 

[BearlyHereBear]

On 5/31/2022 at 4:29 PM, gmarguli said:

There have been two extremely stupid reasons for not eliminating the cent.

1) 

2) It is racist as it will hurt the poor the most if stores go to rounding. 

Having the Lincoln cent is racist.  Don't you remember the BLM riots protests when Lincoln's statue was torn down.

[BearlyHereBear]

On 5/31/2022 at 4:40 PM, Mr.Bill347 said:

Well I got sucked in to the ploy! I’m usually not a gullible person ,  it BarelyHereBare got me here. It wasn’t anywhere near April 1, so I let my guard down. BHB your just another troll!

 

I wasn't trying to troll, just stimulate a discussion.  I hope we all gained some thoughtful insight.

[Oldhoopster]

On 6/1/2022 at 2:43 PM, BearlyHereBear said:

I wasn't trying to troll, just stimulate a discussion.  I hope we all gained some thoughtful insight.

I think it would have been more insightful if you would have just posted a straight up question instead of adding an April fools joke that's been reposted on the various forums over the past year or two.  IMO, it did nothing but reduce the credibility of the post.  Look at how @MrBill348was inadvertently sucked into it.  Just my opinion

[VKurtB]

On 6/1/2022 at 1:53 PM, Oldhoopster said:

I think it would have been more insightful if you would have just posted a straight up question instead of adding an April fools joke that's been reposted on the various forums over the past year or two.  IMO, it did nothing but reduce the credibility of the post.  Look at how @MrBill348was inadvertently sucked into it.  Just my opinion

I know I have a truly warped sense of humor, but I don’t think I hold a candle to Mills and GenZ when it comes to warpedness. And I even made one of those. 

[mallardalert]

On 5/31/2022 at 7:12 PM, Mr.Bill347 said:

Apparently the US Mint is going to begin a buy back program to attempt to reclaim the 23 trillion pennies out there. Because so many remain, and because stores wont ACCEPT them after a given date., I would expect the graded and proof and mint cent pennies to increase somewhat in value. But, because so many people have collected them for so long, it makes me doubt that. I have every penny except the 1909 S VDB so I can tell you mine are going nowhere. I don't care if I can spend them or not, That isn't why I got them in the first place. I will attempt to get in on the 2023 Proof which will be limited to 50,000, but as usual they think they can sell them for $179. Yep, the mint plans on creating more chaos!. Canada discontinued theirs without all the hype, and you can still get mint rolls of them specially wrapped which I bought for 18.99 now (24.99). So 100 10 year old mint state Canadian pennies are worth around 2.5C. Not really an investment so I wont be scurrying out to buy up all the mint rolls that I can. I might pick of three rolls of 2022 just for the memory. We have known for some time that the penny wasn't worth the cost of manufacturing. Long term, the older more rare cents should increase. That's my two cents worth. As a side effect, expect state and local sales taxes to increase to round up to the nearest nickel as well to make accounting easier for stores and cashiers. Now if they eventually make it illegal to own, that is a whole different game!

I don't think it's true

[VKurtB]

On 6/1/2022 at 2:01 PM, mallardalert said:

I don't think it's true

It’s not true. This has already been established. 

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

On 6/1/2022 at 2:43 PM, BearlyHereBear said:

I wasn't trying to troll, just stimulate a discussion.  I hope we all gained some thoughtful insight.

You still have the power to change the OP and provide the context necessary to not mislead others.

[Conder101]

On 5/31/2022 at 12:47 PM, Mr.Bill347 said:

It very well may become a reality. Canada discontinued theirs in 2012.

Yes but Canada is apparently much smarter than we are.

 

On 5/31/2022 at 1:03 PM, Mr.Bill347 said:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/03/02/penny-not-going-away-yet/1958995/

USA Today story from NINE years ago.

 

On 5/31/2022 at 8:00 PM, RWB said:

The presumption is that the seller would always round up in their favor, thus causing the buyer to lose a small amount with every transaction.

This works, but only if customers are never allowed to purchase more than one item at a time. Once you start buying multiple items you're back to sometimes it rounds up and sometimes it rounds down.

 

On 5/31/2022 at 8:15 PM, VKurtB said:

If you’re going to suggest we can’t eliminate the cent AND the nickel, how could the Swiss?

The Swiss don't have a 25 rappen coin, they have a 20 rappen.

 

On 5/31/2022 at 8:15 PM, VKurtB said:

The only excuse is that taxes are in the shelf price, and not an add on.

And THAT does allow the prices to be set so that after tax it always rounds up, and the rounded up price is then posted.  Plus in this case purchasing more than one item DOES always result in higher profits for the merchant.  Having the sales tax built into the posted price DOES cheat the poor.  Set your prices so that after tax is applied it rounds up 2 cents and that allows the merchant to pocket an extra 2 cents on every single item you buy.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Conder101

[RWB]

On 6/1/2022 at 8:37 PM, Conder101 said:

This works, but only if customers are never allowed to purchase more than one item at a time. Once you start buying multiple items you're back to sometimes it rounds up and sometimes it rounds down.

No, the historical presumption is that the seller (merchant) would always round up - even if it meant giving the customer a cent or two less than they were entitled to. Specifying the mechanism, allows payout equipment (cash registers) to display the correct rounding regardless of who is buyer or seller. Today, a gain or loss of 1 or 2 cents on any transaction is meaningless because the cent is merely a sales tax token.

[BearlyHereBear]

On 6/1/2022 at 7:37 PM, Conder101 said:

Yes but Canada is apparently much smarter than we are.

I'm verklempt...

Edited June 2, 2022 by BearlyHereBear

[VKurtB]

On 6/2/2022 at 10:07 AM, BearlyHereBear said:

I'm verklempt...

We used to be “da bomb”. We’re rapidly becoming an ignorant third world country. 

[BearlyHereBear]

On 6/2/2022 at 1:04 PM, VKurtB said:

We used to be “da bomb”. We’re rapidly becoming an ignorant third world country. 

And Canada is enlightened?

[Alex in PA.]

Yes.  When the Canadians entered into their age of enlightenment.

Mithrae Invicto - To Him unconquered

Edited June 2, 2022 by Alex in PA.

[VKurtB]

On 6/2/2022 at 1:22 PM, BearlyHereBear said:

And Canada is enlightened?

In some ways. Not in others. 

[BearlyHereBear]

On 6/2/2022 at 2:15 PM, VKurtB said:

In some ways. Not in others. 

Meh, freedom is overrated.

[Alex in PA.]

"Freedom" is just another word for nothing left to lose.  If you have ever been stuck on the AlCan in January you'd be wailing your heads off at how good the Canadians are.

[J P M]

On 6/2/2022 at 3:39 PM, Alex in PA. said:

"Freedom" is just another word for nothing left to lose.  If you have ever been stuck on the AlCan in January you'd be wailing your heads off at how good the Canadians are.

You and ..Bobby Magee ?

[Alex in PA.]

You're the man JP.   

[BearlyHereBear]

On 6/2/2022 at 2:39 PM, Alex in PA. said:

"Freedom" is just another word for nothing left to lose.  If you have ever been stuck on the AlCan in January you'd be wailing your heads off at how good the Canadians are.

Skillful working Janis in here.  I have no qualms about our neighbors to the north (did you know 90% of them live within 100 miles of the US?).  It's their government that gives me the willies.

Edited June 3, 2022 by BearlyHereBear

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

On 6/3/2022 at 9:18 AM, BearlyHereBear said:

Skillful working Janis in here. 

Kris Kristofferson, technically.

[Alex in PA.]

On 6/3/2022 at 9:18 AM, BearlyHereBear said:

It's their government that gives me the willies

Totally agree with you on that.  I won't do a rant about "Pretty Boy' (JT) but the Canadians sure blew it there.

[Conder101]

On 6/1/2022 at 9:29 PM, RWB said:

No, the historical presumption is that the seller (merchant) would always round up - even if it meant giving the customer a cent or two less than they were entitled to. Specifying the mechanism, allows payout equipment (cash registers) to display the correct rounding regardless of who is buyer or seller. Today, a gain or loss of 1 or 2 cents on any transaction is meaningless because the cent is merely a sales tax token

You may have misunderstood my post. The merchant CAN set the price on each item so that once sales tax is applied and then rounded, it will always round up two cents.  But that ONLY works if customers are never allowed to purchase more than one item at a time.  (You have ten items, they have to be run as ten separate transactions and the merchant makes an extra 20 cents.)  But if you allow multiple items per transaction then the "set the price to always round up" no longer works. The final amount ends up being a random amount and after the tax is applied it may round up or down.  So they can't set prices to "always round up".

 

[RWB]

That sounds like A) more trouble than it's worth, and B) only woks is ALL items are priced accordingly, and C) only for cash transactions.

[Conder101]

I agree, which is why the argument that "if cents are dropped and prices are rounded merchants will rip off consumers" is nonsense.

[VKurtB]

On 6/3/2022 at 5:28 PM, Conder101 said:

I agree, which is why the argument that "if cents are dropped and prices are rounded merchants will rip off consumers" is nonsense.

Most of the arguments most people make regarding economics are nonsense. It’s an essential part of the profession.