Morgan Redfield Dollars 0

[Ronjovi]

I recently purchased a Philadelphia mint Redfield Morgan in the red holder at an estate sale. I attempted to research any information on the potential value of such a coin in this type of holder. Several varieties and years were found in the red and black holders which were valued more than just the coin by itself. My question: Has anyone ever had or seen a Philadelphia mint Morgan in a Redfield holder? I have looked everywhere on websites galore and have not been able to find one. Are these Philadelphia mint Morgans that much of rare a find? I appreciate any information or suggestions to help me find out what I have here. Newbie to coin collecting here.

[Mr.Bill347]

Well they minted over 14 million of them. I would guess a small premium over melt.

[Ronjovi]

OK, I understand they minted 14 M of them but how many were Redfield Hoard and why can't I find any 1879 Philly mints in these holders? I did find one on Ebay that was priced at $1,999.00 and sold a couple weeks ago but it was the only one.

[Mr.Bill347]

All I know is that because 14 millions lessens the chance that any hoard would add tremendous value to it.

[JT2]

well baack in the 70's and old guy named Redfield died..  the story goes that he hid almost a half a million dollars in his walls.  when this hoard was found they decided to put them all in these paramount plastic holders.  kinda like when they found all of the GSA dollars.  anyway they put them in these holders and sold them.  most i am sure arnt in these holders anymore.  i dont give them any special premium just becasue some old guy hid them in his house walls.  geesh just look through my house and you will findcoins hidden every wheere... hahahah maybe i should put them in a holder and sell them as "JT's hoard"  would you give me any extra?

[Ronjovi]

Ok, I appreciate the input here. Waiting on a response from a coin dealer. I'll post his answer as soon as he gives me his opinion. 

[J P M]

I am not partial to the coins in the Paramount holders I would rather have a graded  NGC or PCGS holder. Doesn't it have to say Redfield to be a Redfield coin holder like the one Bill posted ?

Edited May 27, 2022 by J P Mashoke

[DWLange]

It does have to specify "Redfield" to get that designation from NGC. Paramount had a lot of those holders leftover from the Redfield promotion, so it started inserting non-Redfield dollars into them. These, too, are collectible, but they don't bring the same premium as Redfield coins.

[RWB]

Lavere Redfield was a somewhat screwed-up hoarder of silver dollars, among other things. There was nothing special about the coins, and bags of some of the same still exist in private holdings.

[Sandon]

   The 1991 third edition of the Van Allen and Mallis Comprehensive Catalog and Encyclopedia of Morgan and Peace Dollars ("VAM" book) includes a table (p.406) listing the dates and mints known to the authors to have been included in the Redfield Hoard.  The 1879 minted in Philadelphia--relatively common among Morgan dollars--is not among the listed dates, although "many" or at least "a couple dozen" bags each of 1889, 1890, 1896, 1897 and 1898 Philadelphia coins were included, as well as smaller quantities of 1892, 1893 and 1903.  The NGC registry set for "Redfield Holders, Morgan and Peace Dollars, 1878-1935, Including Varieties", includes slots for several date and mint combinations not in the VAM book table, but none for an 1879-(P). 

   Ronjovi may have a stray, unlisted coin--perhaps a discovery specimen--that would be of interest (and possibly a high price) to a specialist in Redfield holder coins.  He may also have a coin in a holder that is counterfeit or has been opened and another coin substituted for the one placed in it.  (While the coins in the vast majority of Redfield holders don't grade "MS 65" by today's standards, this one, featuring a huge obverse scratch, seems inconsistent even with these looser 1970s standards.) Perhaps he should submit it for NGC certification--I don't think PCGS grades coins in Redfield holders--and see if it authenticates as a Redfield coin.

[Alex in PA.]

There's quite a few Redfield Hoard coins for sale on eBay.  What the OP has is a non-Redfield.  

[VKurtB]

On 5/27/2022 at 3:34 PM, RWB said:

was a somewhat screwed-up hoarder of silver dollars

But then again, that’s redundant, isn’t it?

[Sandon]

I stand corrected.  Ronjovi's coin is not designated from the Redfield Hoard but is simply a "generic 1879 Morgan dollar in Paramount's holder with a red insert similar to that found on most Redfield coins.  No discovery coin here.

[VKurtB]

RedfieldISH looking but not Redfield. 

[zadok]

On 5/27/2022 at 7:46 PM, Alex in PA. said:

There's quite a few Redfield Hoard coins for sale on eBay.  What the OP has is a non-Redfield.  

...absolutely correct....

[zadok]

On 5/27/2022 at 4:29 PM, DWLange said:

It does have to specify "Redfield" to get that designation from NGC. Paramount had a lot of those holders leftover from the Redfield promotion, so it started inserting non-Redfield dollars into them. These, too, are collectible, but they don't bring the same premium as Redfield coins.

...just to amplify what mr. lange just said...yes to certify the "redfield" dollars as "redfield" dollars the paramount holders have to say "redfield collection" on the holder...as he mentioned, paramount also sold some of their dollars in the surplus paramount holders, these holders do not say "refield collection" , however ngc will grade n certify these dollars still in the paramount holders...these paramount holders also were issued with black inserts as well as the red inserts....additionally, as he mentions the non-"redfield" coins do not bring as much of a premium as the "redfield" dollars...yes, the "redfield" dollars do bring a substantial premium usually 30-40% above price guide, or if u prefer approx $100 more than the actual coin warrants...it is not unusual to see in dealers cases common "redfield" dollars with asking prices over $400 but usually they r in the $250-290 range, depending on the date/mint.....there r some really choice "redfield" dollars that warrant extra consideration, but most of those have long since been broken out n re-certified in standard tpg holders...the real point here is u should follow the cardinal rule...buy the coin n not the holder...the trick is to buy a "redfield" dollar in a paramount graded ms63 holder n have it graded n certified as a ms64 or better dollar, the best of both worlds....sorry dave if i infringed too much on ur previous comment.....

[J P M]

I think they also made green holders for Morgan's  that are even harder to find.

[VKurtB]

On 5/28/2022 at 10:01 AM, zadok said:

...just to amplify what mr. lange just said...yes to certify the "redfield" dollars as "redfield" dollars the paramount holders have to say "redfield collection" on the holder...as he mentioned, paramount also sold some of their dollars in the surplus paramount holders, these holders do not say "refield collection" , however ngc will grade n certify these dollars still in the paramount holders...these paramount holders also were issued with black inserts as well as the red inserts....additionally, as he mentions the non-"redfield" coins do not bring as much of a premium as the "redfield" dollars...yes, the "redfield" dollars do bring a substantial premium usually 30-40% above price guide, or if u prefer approx $100 more than the actual coin warrants...it is not unusual to see in dealers cases common "redfield" dollars with asking prices over $400 but usually they r in the $250-290 range, depending on the date/mint.....there r some really choice "redfield" dollars that warrant extra consideration, but most of those have long since been broken out n re-certified in standard tpg holders...the real point here is u should follow the cardinal rule...buy the coin n not the holder...the trick is to buy a "redfield" dollar in a paramount graded ms63 holder n have it graded n certified as a ms64 or better dollar, the best of both worlds....sorry dave if i infringed too much on ur previous comment.....

Hey, what ever happened to “buy the coin, not the holder”? Like much in numismatics, it’s observed in the breach. 

[zadok]

On 5/28/2022 at 12:31 PM, VKurtB said:

Hey, what ever happened to “buy the coin, not the holder”? Like much in numismatics, it’s observed in the breach. 

...wasnt aware u were a shakespeareian?...

[zadok]

On 5/28/2022 at 11:12 AM, J P Mashoke said:

I think they also made green holders for Morgan's  that are even harder to find.

...quite possible?...i have not personally seen any paramount holders in green but learn/see something new every day if can stay awake long nuf....

[VKurtB]

On 5/28/2022 at 12:06 PM, zadok said:

...wasnt aware u were a shakespeareian?...

I am the recipient of a Classical education at a prestigious Pennsylvania liberal arts college. I’m a good many things. 

[zadok]

On 5/28/2022 at 1:13 PM, VKurtB said:

I am the recipient of a Classical education at a prestigious Pennsylvania liberal arts college. I’m a good many things. 

...but the question is...r u good at many things?....the record would appear to indicate in the affirmative....

[VKurtB]

On 5/28/2022 at 12:15 PM, zadok said:

...but the question is...r u good at many things?....the record would appear to indicate in the affirmative....

With each passing medical event, I become less good at more things, trust me. 

[zadok]

On 5/28/2022 at 1:29 PM, VKurtB said:

With each passing medical event, I become less good at more things, trust me. 

...chuckle...but not funny, been there doing that myself....u can forget how to ride a bicycle....

[VKurtB]

On 5/28/2022 at 12:33 PM, zadok said:

...chuckle...but not funny, been there doing that myself....u can forget how to ride a bicycle....

When I get less good at driving, I’ll stop going to coin shows. As long as I can use cruise control, I’m still golden. 

[Conder101]

There are 10 different varieties of these holders

Redfield

Black with no grade, black with MS 60 grade, black with MS 60 grade changed to 63 with blue labeling tape, red with MS 65 grade Paramount International Coin Corp extends all the way across the insert, red with MS 65 grade Paramount International Coin Corp is smaller font ending about 1/2 inch from either edge of insert, red with MS 65 grade changed to 67 with red labeling tape, green with MS65+ grade

Non-Redfield

Black with MS 60 grade, red with MS 65 grade, green with MS 65+ grade

The two Redfield types with the labeling tape altered grades were altered on the insert BEFORE the slabs were sonically sealed. so they were done by Paramount not an after market alteration.

The green inserts are probably the most difficult ones to locate followed by the ones with the altered grades, then the red one with the smaller font Paramount etc.

The only variation I have not seen is a non Redfield with no grade because that holder would just say "US SILVER DOLLAR PARAMOUNT INTERNATIONAL etc"