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Comments on Coin auction sites under Live Auctioneers
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21 posts in this topic

Just need comments to see if I'm close concerning Live Auctioneers 'auction' sites. I've been using them for some time but only slabbed coins from now on. I believe that when coins are consigned, the consignee does not verify the consignor or the items, just takes their word for it (grading).  I just received a coin back from NGC that was a 1913-s T2 buffalo and was 'altered surface', not encapsulated. Contacted 'auction house' and was told it was way past the 5 day inspection period, so sorry! I don't believe the houses flag consignors that consign grossly mis-graded or otherwise. You would have to be an expert grader to determine grade and then why would we new NGC or PCGS?

The 'user agreement' you must sign to participate is simply and iron clad 'It's not my problem' agreement. Read them closely

Here's another that REALLY cost me:

My experience has been 99% bad with Gold Standard Auctions. Over time I sent 37 bust halves for grading when I started submitting. 34 came back 'cleaned' and 1 ungradable due to re-engraved date. 2 were, wait for it, OK. My experience has shown that their grading is at least 2 grades higher than actual. Other submissions like 'UNC'/MS65 come back as XF or AU. Simply put, protect yourself and purchase slabbed coins only from any Live Auctioneers house (not saying they're all bad). Uncertified, it has to be a good deal. An 1904 half cent listed as MS65 came back 'altered color' but was graded Unc details. Granted an impulse purchase, should have spent on 1795 bust half. Nuff said.

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Yes, of course the risk is all yours when you buy raw coins. How could it be otherwise? Do you need to be a QUASI-expert grader to do this? Absolutely. So my advice is to invest in learning grading. 

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I use Heritage and Great Collections and have no problems with them. I was just soliciting comments concerning the business practices of these so called auction houses. As for learning grading, cleaning, altered surfaces, altered coloring/toning, reengraved dates probably needs better equipment than I have.

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On 5/24/2022 at 9:13 PM, MattGinAZ said:

I use Heritage and Great Collections and have no problems with them. I was just soliciting comments concerning the business practices of these so called auction houses. As for learning grading, cleaning, altered surfaces, altered coloring/toning, reengraved dates probably needs better equipment than I have.

It’s not so much about equipment as it is knowledge. 

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On 5/24/2022 at 10:13 PM, MattGinAZ said:

I use Heritage and Great Collections and have no problems with them. I was just soliciting comments concerning the business practices of these so called auction houses. As for learning grading, cleaning, altered surfaces, altered coloring/toning, reengraved dates probably needs better equipment than I have.

....live auctioneers is not an auction house nor do they claim to be an auction house....they r an auction platform that auction houses use to facilitate their auctions...other auction platforms i.e. proxibid, hi-bid, invaluable et al provide the same services...these platforms r not the actual sellers of the auction items...when u participate u r accepting the guidelines n rules of the auction firm or house that is selling the item, the auction platform also has some guidelines n rules that they list concerning the functioning n payment procedures of the auction...in the instances of coin auctions it is not the responsibility of the auction platform to ascertain the grades n conditions of the coins...of course if an auction platform receives numerous complaints about the quality, accuracy, authenticity of the items being sold they may very well determine the auction houses using their platform r not credible n discontinue those houses from future access....there is a clear difference between auction houses that have their own in-house auction platforms n those that dont...it is best to determine which auction houses offer valid coins with credible descriptions n those that dont n participate accordingly....

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On 5/25/2022 at 5:25 AM, JT2 said:

I would just say neve buy a raw coin unless you can physically hold it and lookat it.

Yup. I would too. 

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I chose to learn first, and collect second. I took several ANA courses, starting back about 1994, and even took a 3-day course on grading specifically back in 2013 I believe. It was when the ANA Spring show was in Orlando, where FUN usually is. 

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Since counterfeit coins cannot be bought or sold, the auction company cannot make a valid sale. Same applies to the Colorado Counterfeiter and his fakes -- none of the sales are valid.

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On 5/25/2022 at 1:47 PM, FlyingAl said:

I believe that they recently sold a counterfeit for 5 figures.

That must have been one good counterfeit or one dumb buyer.

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On 5/25/2022 at 1:02 PM, Alex in PA. said:

That must have been one good counterfeit or one dumb buyer.

It was a die transfer counterfeit, some of those are good enough to get the TPGs. NGC and PCGS have holdered some. They are really good. 

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On 5/25/2022 at 3:20 PM, FlyingAl said:

It was a die transfer counterfeit

I had to do some research but you are right.  Samples of those really shocked me.  Here's one.........

Added to say:  The person who bought that 5 figure coin must have been heart broken.

20180303_1911penn800y-_3_.jpg

Edited by Alex in PA.
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That is scary.  I just recently sent my Carson City collection to PCGS and had them all looked over for authenticity and the reholdered in the Gold Shield NFC anti-counterfeiting holders.   But this makes me nervous about future buying.  

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I think a lot fo the coins are safe. These are very hard to produce and it is a very expensive process, costing tens of thousands. That means the coins need to be worth tens of thousands, and the good news is that a lot of these are often from details coins (the coin that truly is genuine) and as such this repair is noted on the label. Sometimes, not so much. Now the TPGs look for these and they are really good at finding them. They got burned big time once, they won let it happen again. 

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On 5/25/2022 at 3:51 PM, FlyingAl said:

Here’s a genuine one next to a counterfeit. Yes the counterfeit is in NGC plastic. Images from a thread ATS.893AC6DE-D655-4563-94A5-70EFF5EDE6A1.thumb.jpeg.85f0b6f41d21486a7eaaa77ae3a1a703.jpeg

This specific situation got a lot of play over a long period of time on the PCGS board.

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 The genuine coin can't be worth that much, it has a hole in it. I think it would leak or at least whistle in a strong wind

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I just won a small claims case against Gold Standard Auctions. All you'll get there is some good looking junk. Don't be fooled by those who say you have no recourse. The way courts look at things have changed. When not able to inspect in person, you, the buyer is relying on the knowledge of the auction house professionals that deal with a specific commodity regularly, thus being considered "merchants" according to the UCC article 2. So when the knowledgeable merchant labels the lot with a grade and a value, just like Gold Standard Auctions does, that is information relied upon to make the purchase, thus creating an "Express Warranty", a statement of fact or a description of the goods that's made a basis of the sale.

Gold Standard Auctions isn't even a registered business in the state of Texas according to their Secretary of State. Not only is Christian Lyche ripping everyone off, he has also not been paying his taxes for the last 3 years. He's a 23 year old dumb dumb!

Sue him.... you'll win.

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