CAC Question 1 1

[CIII]

I have several coins that I feel very confident would receive CAC approval.  I am not a member nor are they accepting membership.  Any ideas before contacting them directly?  Thanks in advance.

[Coinbuf]

On 5/18/2022 at 12:43 PM, tigerbait said:

I have several coins that I feel very confident would receive CAC approval.  I am not a member nor are they accepting membership.  Any ideas before contacting them directly?  Thanks in advance.

If you know a dealer or collector in your area that is willing to submit them on your behalf that will be the quickest, least expensive way.   If you are friends with a collector who can submit that you can trust; that is the most cost effective way to submit as collectors do not pay for the coins not stickered where dealers pay for each coin sticker or not.   I would be happy to submit them for you (I am a collector submitter) but then there is the double cost of shipping which really gets expensive.   And of course if you have applied to CAC for collector membership then you can simply wait until you receive their approval and can submit yourself.

[CIII]

Thanks for the reply.  I did not think they were accepting applications for membership at this time.  I'll check again.  Thank you.

[CIII]

They are not accepting member applications at this time.  

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

On 5/18/2022 at 4:21 PM, Coinbuf said:

...If you are friends with a collector who can submit that you can trust; that is the most cost effective way to submit as collectors do not pay for the coins not stickered where dealers pay for each coin sticker or not...

I did not know that with CAC!  Thanks!

[Alex in PA.]

Re-read the info @Coinbuf gave you.  

In order to maintain the quality of our service and continue to properly and timely serve our members, effective immediately, we are closing CAC collector/dealer membership applications. We will post a notice once membership is reopened.

[VKurtB]

On 5/18/2022 at 5:51 PM, Alex in PA. said:

Re-read the info @Coinbuf gave you.  

In order to maintain the quality of our service and continue to properly and timely serve our members, effective immediately, we are closing CAC collector/dealer membership applications. We will post a notice once membership is reopened.

Maybe NGC should consider such a thing. 

[Woods020]

Yes no new memberships. And my last submission took over a month. Unlike the TPGs they usually have a 5 day turnaround. They are just swamped. 
 

As coinbuf offered I can submit for you also, but I am being forced into changing my membership to a dealer. So no free tries at it for me. 

[CIII]

Thank you for all the responses.  What a great forum of resource!

[Coinbuf]

On 5/18/2022 at 4:17 PM, Woods020 said:

Yes no new memberships. And my last submission took over a month. Unlike the TPGs they usually have a 5 day turnaround. They are just swamped. 
 

As coinbuf offered I can submit for you also, but I am being forced into changing my membership to a dealer. So no free tries at it for me. 

Does that mean that you are going to send your 50/50 coins to me to submit now.  

[Woods020]

On 5/18/2022 at 6:40 PM, Coinbuf said:

Does that mean that you are going to send your 50/50 coins to me to submit now.  

Well now that you mention it……😂

[Woods020]

On 5/18/2022 at 6:40 PM, Coinbuf said:

Does that mean that you are going to send your 50/50 coins to me to submit now.  

Do you have some from CAC that make you scratch your head? I don’t claim to be a master grader by any means, but I do try and learn from each submission. Whether it be grading or CAC I try and give my own estimate before submitting and then comparing to see how I did. When I’m off I try to see why. With both I have a handful that just bug me. CAC bugs me the most it seems. Most of them I fully agree with, but a few I would pay them to walk through them with me and tell me why some didn’t sticker. Especially if I’m submitting multiples of the same coin/same grade and it’s very easy to compare side by side. 

[Coinbuf]

On 5/18/2022 at 4:44 PM, Woods020 said:

Do you have some from CAC that make you scratch your head? I don’t claim to be a master grader by any means, but I do try and learn from each submission. Whether it be grading or CAC I try and give my own estimate before submitting and then comparing to see how I did. When I’m off I try to see why. With both I have a handful that just bug me. CAC bugs me the most it seems. Most of them I fully agree with, but a few I would pay them to walk through them with me and tell me why some didn’t sticker. Especially if I’m submitting multiples of the same coin/same grade and it’s very easy to compare side by side. 

For sure!  I have yet to send a submission that did not have one or two coins that left me saying what the heck.   Like you I usually see the light after I give the coins that fail (at least the ones that were not 50/50 shot coins) a real good going over, but there always seems to one or two that I just cannot figure out why they failed.   And coincidentally they are very often Washington quarters, I cannot grade those suckers for anything.  

[VKurtB]

On 5/18/2022 at 6:55 PM, Coinbuf said:

For sure!  I have yet to send a submission that did not have one or two coins that left me saying what the heck.   Like you I usually see the light after I give the coins that fail (at least the ones that were not 50/50 shot coins) a real good going over, but there always seems to one or two that I just cannot figure out why they failed.   And coincidentally they are very often Washington quarters, I cannot grade those suckers for anything.  

The thing that annoys me the most about CAC is “hero worship”. There is NO single person’s opinion, even John’s, that I would trust over a 3-person panel of professionals. 5 would be better than 3, and nine would be better than seven or five. More people arriving at a consensus will ALWAYS impress me more than ANY singular one. The last perfect person was crucified. 

[Coinbuf]

On 5/18/2022 at 5:49 PM, VKurtB said:

The thing that annoys me the most about CAC is “hero worship”. There is NO single person’s opinion, even John’s, that I would trust over a 3-person panel of professionals. 5 would be better than 3, and nine would be better than seven or five. More people arriving at a consensus will ALWAYS impress me more than ANY singular one. The last perfect person was crucified. 

I get that, but here is the thing.   John is not grading the coins, he is merely giving some fineness to the opinion already given by the three TPG graders, in essence a fourth opinion on top of the combined three.  And he is not doing it alone, he has others that review the coins prior to his look, much like the finalizer at a TPG.   So to say that one man has the power of the all mighty is; well a bit of a stretch.   If he was actually grading coins by himself as say Alan Hager did at ACG, that would be quite a different story altogether.

Hero worship, meh, that is your bias talking.   Are there some that may worship JA, perhaps, but if you want to rail against hero worship you need to talk to people that worship the Kardashian's, or all the massively overpaid basketball players, or the PCGS fan boys.   Now those people are really sick and have some serious hero worship issues.

[VKurtB]

On 5/18/2022 at 9:37 PM, Coinbuf said:

I get that, but here is the thing.   John is not grading the coins, he is merely giving some fineness to the opinion already given by the three TPG graders, in essence a fourth opinion on top of the combined three.  And he is not doing it alone, he has others that review the coins prior to his look, much like the finalizer at a TPG.   So to say that one man has the power of the all mighty is; well a bit of a stretch.   If he was actually grading coins by himself as say Alan Hager did at ACG, that would be quite a different story altogether.

Hero worship, meh, that is your bias talking.   Are there some that may worship JA, perhaps, but if you want to rail against hero worship you need to talk to people that worship the Kardashian's, or all the massively overpaid basketball players, or the PCGS fan boys.   Now those people are really sick and have some serious hero worship issues.

I’m on record calling the NBA the unwatchable sport. I’ve never done business with the P-people, and I can’t tell any two Lardassians apart. I may have misspelled that name, or perhaps not. 

Edited May 19, 2022 by VKurtB

[Woods020]

A big problem in this hobby is peer pressure. I don’t necessarily think half of what is graded needs to be graded, and I don’t think we need CAC in most cases. However if you want to ever sell a coin, or compete in registry sets, you have to play the game. I participate in the registry kind of but not seriously. However I do like selling coins. The coin market is extremely quick to self impose additional constraints on itself. You won’t convince someone today a coin is strong for grade if it doesn’t have a green bean. If it isn’t cac’d it’s immediately seen as a lesser coin. And we do it to ourselves. But when the masses decide that’s what they want we have no choice but to suck it up or lose money. 

Edited May 19, 2022 by Woods020

[GoldFinger1969]

On 5/18/2022 at 11:07 PM, Woods020 said:

A big problem in this hobby is peer pressure. I don’t necessarily think half of what is graded needs to be graded, and I don’t think we need CAC in most cases. However if you want to ever sell a coin, or compete in registry sets, you have to play the game. I participate in the registry kind of but not seriously. However I do like selling coins. The coin market is extremely quick to self impose additional constraints on itself. You won’t convince someone today a coin is strong for grade if it doesn’t have a green bean. If it isn’t cac’d it’s immediately seen as a lesser coin. And we do it to ourselves. But when the masses decide that’s what they want we have no choice but to suck it up or lose money. 

JA is notoriously very tough on gold coins/Saints.  Probably because the standards got so lax in the late-1990's/early-2000's from the TPGs.

I think I read somewhere that no 1908 No Motto Saint has ever gotten a CAC sticker.  Or maybe it's the Wells Fargo bunch (though I though I had seen a few over the years).

Edited May 19, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[VKurtB]

On 5/18/2022 at 11:28 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

JA is notoriously very tough on gold coins/Saints.  Probably because the standards got so lax in the late-1990's/early-2000's from the TPGs.

I think I read somewhere that no 1908 No Motto Saint has ever gotten a CAC sticker.  Or maybe it's the Wells Fargo bunch (though I though I had seen a few over the years).

A lot of gold is over graded to an eye trained primarily on silver and non-precious metal coins. People can try to deny it all they like, but you’ll never convince me the grades on gold aren’t too generous. 

[James Zyskowski]

Well now. Go away for a week and come back to this.  

Having studied across the street and here, there is one undeniable fact when discussing “the bean”. Let all beware 😉🙀🦫

   This is the one truth 🤨

 

[VKurtB]

On 5/19/2022 at 12:53 PM, James Zyskowski said:

Well now. Go away for a week and come back to this.  

Having studied across the street and here, there is one undeniable fact when discussing “the bean”. Let all beware 😉🙀🦫

   This is the one truth 🤨

 

Here’s something that has always (PA local turn of phrase approaching) “wondered me”: Why does it seem that the same dealers who are nearly PCGS exclusive dealers also are highly committed to the “bean factory”? Is it a tacit admission that PCGS graders need to be overseen in their grading? /and with that he ducks from incoming hurled projectiles from the PCGS worshippers

[James Zyskowski]

Well Kurt. That’s a pop top can o worms if not ( us old guys will get this )  time to get out the P-38 and open field style 😉🙀🦫

[VKurtB]

On 5/19/2022 at 1:04 PM, James Zyskowski said:

Well Kurt. That’s a pop top can o worms if not ( us old guys will get this )  time to get out the P-38 and open field style 😉🙀🦫

I have a PCGS membership app in my files, honest I do, maybe more than one. I just can’t think of a reason I’d want to fill it out. 

[Hoghead515]

On 5/19/2022 at 2:04 PM, James Zyskowski said:

Well Kurt. That’s a pop top can o worms if not ( us old guys will get this )  time to get out the P-38 and open field style 😉🙀🦫

One of these maybe? A gift from usmc ray. 

[Alex in PA.]

On 5/18/2022 at 8:49 PM, VKurtB said:

There is NO single person’s opinion, even John’s, that I would trust over a 3-person panel of professionals. 5 would be better than 3,

Agree!  People always complaining about their grades that they got and telling everyone "You need to learn how to grade!"  BS!  I'll take the word of the NGC & ATS over my grading any day.  This is a 'hobby' for me; it's not my profession.

[Alex in PA.]

On 5/19/2022 at 2:37 PM, Hoghead515 said:

One of these maybe? A gift from usmc ray.

Oohrah!

[VKurtB]

On 5/19/2022 at 1:44 PM, Alex in PA. said:

Agree!  People always complaining about their grades that they got and telling everyone "You need to learn how to grade!"  BS!  I'll take the word of the NGC & ATS over my grading any day.  This is a 'hobby' for me; it's not my profession.

It’s not hard at all to learn how to grade like a TPG. But it DOES come at a cost. There’s tuition to be paid, mostly in the form of airfare and hotel rooms. You have to go and look at COINS, and when I capitalize that, I mean as opposed to pictures of coins. 

[CIII]

USMC folks.  Thank you for your service!  You do realize that it is the USN that transports you.  Go Navy!

[VKurtB]

On 5/19/2022 at 3:11 PM, tigerbait said:

USMC folks.  Thank you for your service!  You do realize that it is the USN that transports you.  Go Navy!

Uber for Marines. 

[James Zyskowski]

Yes Hog. That’s army p-38 but not sure if that’s it’s USMC designation. 
   Used to carry one on my keys, nick and cuts aside,( I used to drink and forget the blade was out)  I found it mighty handy. Grandpa and pop both Navy. My personal respect for the Marines is very high. 😉🙀🦫