1940 Mint Set 0

[Coinbuf]

On 6/8/2022 at 10:07 PM, Legionary1 said:

Ouch.

Remember what I said about stupid money?

My congratulations on snagging that '40 Washington in NGC MS68; the way things are shaping up, I'll not be able to beat you even if I did get a '40-S Walker in NGC MS67... 

Thank you, it was quite expensive but considering that it has almost the same point value as a 40-S walker in 67 at less than 1/4 of the price I decided to reach for it.    And to be honest the coin it replaces was never my favorite as the tone was rather heavy for my taste, a nice side benefit is having an NGC top pop coin inthe set.   Only one coin in the set that I really want to upgrade now, the hunt continues.

Edited June 9, 2022 by Coinbuf

[Legionary1]

On 6/9/2022 at 8:21 AM, Coinbuf said:

Thank you, it was quite expensive but considering that it has almost the same point value as a 40-S walker in 67 at less than 1/4 of the price I decided to reach for it.    And to be honest the coin it replaces was never my favorite as the tone was rather heavy for my taste, a nice side benefit is having an NGC top pop coin inthe set.   Only one coin in the set that I really want to upgrade now, the hunt continues.

You're quite welcome.

What coin did you want to upgrade?

[Coinbuf]

On 6/9/2022 at 8:39 PM, Legionary1 said:

You're quite welcome.

What coin did you want to upgrade?

I would like to replace the 40-S dime, the one in my set is ok but doesn't have the best eye appeal.   So while a + coin would be nice to take its place, it is more about finding a nicer looking coin even if the grade stays the same.   Not a must do but rather one of those back burner coins that I'll be on the look out for but not aggressively searching for.   I actually have a PCGS MS65 with a CAC gold bean that is far more eye appealing than the current NGC 67, if I am not able to find one that has the eye appeal I want perhaps one day I'll crack that MS65 and have it regraded.   I think it would go 67 in a heartbeat and has the eye appeal I want, just hate to crack a rattler holder.

[Legionary1]

On 6/10/2022 at 1:45 PM, Coinbuf said:

I would like to replace the 40-S dime, the one in my set is ok but doesn't have the best eye appeal.   So while a + coin would be nice to take its place, it is more about finding a nicer looking coin even if the grade stays the same.   Not a must do but rather one of those back burner coins that I'll be on the look out for but not aggressively searching for.   I actually have a PCGS MS65 with a CAC gold bean that is far more eye appealing than the current NGC 67, if I am not able to find one that has the eye appeal I want perhaps one day I'll crack that MS65 and have it regraded.   I think it would go 67 in a heartbeat and has the eye appeal I want, just hate to crack a rattler holder.

I see what you mean about your '40-S Merc.

I've never been a fan of toned coins; I've always considered toning to be a form of environmental damage.

My own specimen of the '40-S issue has the green bean; the stone-white brilliance on the obverse and reverse is why...

I've been looking for a specimen of the issue with both the CAC sticker and a '+' grade, but have had no luck. 

Edited June 11, 2022 by Legionary1

[Coinbuf]

On 6/10/2022 at 9:40 PM, Legionary1 said:

I see what you mean about your '40-S Merc.

I've never been a fan of toned coins; I've always considered toning to be a form of environmental damage.

My own specimen of the '40-S issue has the green bean; the stone-white brilliance on the obverse and reverse is why...

I've been looking for a specimen of the issue with both the CAC sticker and a '+' grade, but have had no luck. 

Finding one in NGC plastic will be tough as the census shows only 5 in 67+, so this crackouts there may really only be three or four.

[Legionary1]

On 6/11/2022 at 4:06 PM, Coinbuf said:

Finding one in NGC plastic will be tough as the census shows only 5 in 67+, so this crackouts there may really only be three or four.

So, it sounds like my specimen is as high as I can expect to get  

Edited June 12, 2022 by Legionary1

[Coinbuf]

On 6/11/2022 at 9:13 PM, Legionary1 said:

So, it sounds like my specimen is as high as I can expect to get  

No just that it will take some searching and time to find one, I spent over a year looking for the 40-S Lincoln in 67+.   I was willing to buy a PCGS graded one due to the low population of coins in that grade in NGC plastic, but my patience was rewarded as a few new coins were graded and I was able to acquire one of those new to the census coins.   And of course you could always buy a PCGS/CAC coin and cross it to NGC, extra expenses that way but another possibility.

[Legionary1]

On 6/12/2022 at 8:35 AM, Coinbuf said:

No just that it will take some searching and time to find one, I spent over a year looking for the 40-S Lincoln in 67+.   I was willing to buy a PCGS graded one due to the low population of coins in that grade in NGC plastic, but my patience was rewarded as a few new coins were graded and I was able to acquire one of those new to the census coins.   And of course you could always buy a PCGS/CAC coin and cross it to NGC, extra expenses that way but another possibility.

I have considered that, but if I dropped $1,500 on a .40-S Lincoln in PCGS MS67+ CAC, send it to NGC for a crossover and have it come back as a lower grade, I'd be wrathfully annoyed.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Legionary1

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

I have really enjoyed reading the friendly, competitive banter in this thread.  Thanks to both of you guys for bing such cool dudes! 

[Coinbuf]

On 6/13/2022 at 7:07 PM, Legionary1 said:

I have considered that, but if I dropped $1,500 on a .40-S Lincoln in PCGS MS67+ CAC, send it to NGC for a crossover and have it come back as a lower grade, I'd be wrathfully annoyed.

This is a real concern, before NGC began to allow PCGS coins back in registry sets I sent in a few high grade (67 or better a couple were already CAC'd) PCGS graded coins for crossover at same grade, all failed to cross.   Now I was only out the grading/shipping fees as I said at grade, but it just goes to show that crossovers are dicey and never a sure thing.

[Legionary1]

On 6/13/2022 at 7:15 PM, The Neophyte Numismatist said:

I have really enjoyed reading the friendly, competitive banter in this thread.  Thanks to both of you guys for bing such cool dudes! 

You're quite welcome, sir.

[Legionary1]

Opportunities to upgrade my set are going to be few and far between, as the really high-grade stuff is very expensive.

Examples are that 1940-D Washington quarter NGC MS67+ at L & C Coins for $2,900.00; they also have a 1940-S quarter NGC MS68 at $8,504.00.

 

Trying to find a 1940-D cent in the grade of NGC MS67+ CAC; all I have seen are PCGS-graded, and I don't trust NGC to cross one over at the same grade.

 

[Coinbuf]

On 7/1/2022 at 8:26 PM, Legionary1 said:

Opportunities to upgrade my set are going to be few and far between, as the really high-grade stuff is very expensive.

Examples are that 1940-D Washington quarter NGC MS67+ at L & C Coins for $2,900.00; they also have a 1940-S quarter NGC MS68 at $8,504.00.

 

Trying to find a 1940-D cent in the grade of NGC MS67+ CAC; all I have seen are PCGS-graded, and I don't trust NGC to cross one over at the same grade.

 

I am in the same boat, that MS68 quarter really emptied the piggy bank and then some!  But as I studied the pops and the points it was one of the best bang for the buck opportunities so I went ahead and swung for it.  While some coins in both our sets are maxed out at the current top pop, there are still some coins that can be upgraded.   But as you noted most of those upgrades, especially the 40-S Walker in 67 and the MS68 quarters are big money.

[Legionary1]

On 7/2/2022 at 9:20 AM, Coinbuf said:

I am in the same boat, that MS68 quarter really emptied the piggy bank and then some!  But as I studied the pops and the points it was one of the best bang for the buck opportunities so I went ahead and swung for it.  While some coins in both our sets are maxed out at the current top pop, there are still some coins that can be upgraded.   But as you noted most of those upgrades, especially the 40-S Walker in 67 and the MS68 quarters are big money.

Quite so; our sets are at such a stratospheric level in the registry that opportunities for improvement will be both very spendy and few & far between.

For example, my three '40 Jefferson nickels are all NGC MS67 6FS. The '40-D in NGC MS67+ 5FS is actually worth fewer points than my '40-D NGC 6FS specimen. 

[Legionary1]

Great Collections has a 1940 and 1940-D nickel up for bids right now; both coins are graded NGC MS68 5FS.

Seeing an opportunity (or so I thought), I put up bids for both of them.

Then, I compared their point values to the specimens already in my collection; both NGC MS67 6FS.

To my great surprise, the '40 NGC MS68 5FS is worth 1201 points (a full 457 points less than my '40 NGC MS67 6FS); the '40-D NGC MS68 5FS is 684 points, 90 points less than my .'40-D in NGC MS67 6FS.

With the foregoing in mind, I'm going to let my bids expire and let someone else win them. I don't anticipate this taking very long, because the last time i saw these issues for sale in this grade, they went for a couple of grand each...

 

[Coinbuf]

Hopefully someone will out bid you on those MS68 graded coins, I have always felt that the nickels do not get enough love and points for how rare they are at the MS67 and MS68 level.   And the minimal points change is one of the reasons I have never wanted to spend the money to upgrade my MS67's.

Edited August 28, 2022 by Coinbuf

[Legionary1]

On 8/27/2022 at 7:12 PM, Coinbuf said:

Hopefully someone will out bid you on those MS68 graded coins, I have always felt that the nickels do not get enough love and points for how rare they are at the MS67 and MS68 level.   And the minimal points change is one of the reasons I have never wanted to spend the money to upgrade my MS67's.

IMHO, only the '40-S Jefferson in NGC MS67 6FS is properly valued, points-wise. the census for that issue in that grade shows 10 specimens, with just one (!!) higher. Point value is 2,807. The '40 Philadelphia issue in NGC MS67 6FS is under-valued (at 1,658 points) on the scale, as the census is 16/3.

I have every expectation that I will be out-bid; Numismedia has the FMV for these coins in that grade at the $5,000.00+ level.

I only bid $750.00 each so, If I actually win the auction, it'll be the steal of the year...

 

Edit: I've already been outbid on that '40-D Jefferson; current bid is $1,050.00. Curiously enough, I haven't yet been outbid on the '40...

 

Edited August 31, 2022 by Legionary1

[Legionary1]

Update:

As of September 4th, I've been outbid on the '40 and '40-D Jeffersons in NGC MS68 5FS, as well as the '40 Mercury in NGC MS68 FB.

[Coinbuf]

I think you came out the winner on those three auctions, as you noted you would have lost points on the nickels and I'm not a big fan of the dime.   Big grade and registry points, but that streaky tan tone looks very much like dip residue to my eye form the GC photos.   I think your 67+ has much more eye appeal than that MS68, I did look at it myself but decided that; like yours; I prefer my current 67+ better.

[Legionary1]

On 9/4/2022 at 2:29 PM, Coinbuf said:

I think you came out the winner on those three auctions, as you noted you would have lost points on the nickels and I'm not a big fan of the dime.   Big grade and registry points, but that streaky tan tone looks very much like dip residue to my eye form the GC photos.   I think your 67+ has much more eye appeal than that MS68, I did look at it myself but decided that; like yours; I prefer my current 67+ better.

I strongly agree with you.

I'm of the opinion that all three coins brought prices that IMHO, are less than what the grades would indicate.

For example, the FMV for those two nickels exceeds $5,500.00 each, while the dime's FMV is $3,580.00  

 

[Coinbuf]

Hmm I don't follow the values that closely for the nickels, however I'm curious how you arrived at a FMV of $3,580 on the dime.    NGC price guide shows $2,450 in its price guide and the PCGS and CAC price guides both show $3,750.   In searching the PCGS auction archives the most recent NGC graded MS68 FB coins auctioned for $1,260 in 2021 and $879 in 2019.   Even the past two PCGS coins fell short of the guide prices crossing the blocks in 2022 for $3,000 and $3,250, all of the coins I have referenced above are non CAC approved coins.    A CAC green beaned coin would most certainly bring guide price or higher.

So at a price of $1,150 this most recent one at GC was right in the range for an NGC graded coin, actually it went a bit cheaper than I expected considering how hot the market is right now.

Edited September 6, 2022 by Coinbuf

[Legionary1]

On 9/5/2022 at 1:39 PM, Coinbuf said:

Hmm I don't follow the values that closely for the nickels, however I'm curious how you arrived at a FMV of $3,580 on the dime.    NGC price guide shows $2,450 in its price guide and the PCGS and CAC price guides both show $3,750.   In searching the PCGS auction archives the most recent NGC graded MS68 FB coins auctioned for $1,260 in 2021 and $879 in 2019.   Even the past two PCGS coins fell short of the guide prices crossing the blocks in 2022 for $3,000 and $3,250, all of the coins I have referenced above are non CAC approved coins.    A CAC green beaned coin would most certainly bring guide price or higher.

So at a price of $1,150 this most recent one at GC was right in the range for an NGC graded coin, actually it went a bit cheaper than I expected considering how hot the market is right now.

NumisMedia has the FMV for the '40 Merc in MS68 FB at $3,580.00

[Coinbuf]

On 9/8/2022 at 2:20 AM, Legionary1 said:

NumisMedia has the FMV for the '40 Merc in MS68 FB at $3,580.00

Ok, I never look at those values as they are seldom very accurate for NGC graded coins and especially for coins in auctions.   That seems to be more of a full retail price guide and more in line with what PCGS coins will sell for in retail outlets like a dealer shop, shows, or ebay.   While I do not really agree or understand the market mentality on why so many discount NGC graded material, I am happy to accept the discount and buy more coins instead of plastic with four letters on it.

[Legionary1]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/374323139185?hash=item572765d271:g:v5AAAOSwPLljWarv&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAsBGfmw2b7RhpPbdzb7pBz8US6WH3Qt0AxGkRqD92CGNpNhLCDSs3YpMqxuE6vVl0%2B1g%2BoSj6nbTpoMQj7A%2Bhx2YU6v%2F6vhUiu09s5LBNUBr6cv26Tj9wzMJA9cKiPpzv6M3hW4snbq8Yhk%2BhTZ1YzUWLakGDuBgWtD8E5NpAabE%2BS4x%2FYWZARdjStm1pfPjovixWq%2BAQDRomM2z87owOeUcg98lD2uvEaZ9MDt00fA3x|tkp%3ABk9SR8TDyYeIYQ

There's this little number on ebay; if I had the cash, I'd go for it in a hot second.

[Coinbuf]

I think that coin has been offered on ebay for some time now, I have not been following 1940 dated coins much the second half of this year but it looks very familiar.

[Legionary1]

On 11/3/2022 at 8:04 PM, Coinbuf said:

I think that coin has been offered on ebay for some time now, I have not been following 1940 dated coins much the second half of this year but it looks very familiar.

Indeed.

I've got bids out on a '40 and '40-S Lincoln; both are in the grade of PCGS MS67+ CAC.

These coins were part of the Red Copper Lincoln Cent Set, the all-time finest set of the denomination ever assembled

Once I have them in hand, I'll submit them to NGC for a cross-over (then to CAC to have the green beans restored).

Edited November 21, 2022 by Legionary1

[Coinbuf]

On 11/20/2022 at 9:41 PM, Legionary1 said:

Indeed.

I've got bids out on a '40 and '40-S Lincoln; both are in the grade of PCGS MS67+ CAC.

These coins were part of the Red Copper Lincoln Cent Set, the all-time finest set of the denomination ever assembled

Once I have them in hand, I'll submit them to NGC for a cross-over (then to CAC to have the green beans restored).

My you sound very confident   I hope you do win them but I suspect it will take very strong bids.

[Legionary1]

On 11/20/2022 at 9:45 PM, Coinbuf said:

My you sound very confident   I hope you do win them but I suspect it will take very strong bids.

Yes, I am.

Though there's 7,000+ points between our two 1940 sets, it isn't in my nature to give up. 

 

[Legionary1]

I just bagged the PCGS-certified 1940 Lincoln cent in the grade of MS67+ CAC, and there's a bit of a problem.

I tried several times to add it to my set, and each time the system kicked it back and said that the certification number is invalid; this cant possibly be true as I verified the certification number with PCGS.

As an aside, this coin was part of the Birdwatcher Type Set and was most recently sold in the November 30th 2021 Stacks Bowers auction. 

[Coinbuf]

On 12/6/2022 at 12:05 PM, Legionary1 said:

I just bagged the PCGS-certified 1940 Lincoln cent in the grade of MS67+ CAC, and there's a bit of a problem.

I tried several times to add it to my set, and each time the system kicked it back and said that the certification number is invalid; this cant possibly be true as I verified the certification number with PCGS.

As an aside, this coin was part of the Birdwatcher Type Set and was most recently sold in the November 30th 2021 Stacks Bowers auction. 

 

Congrats on the new addition, I hope the bid you placed on the Red Copper Cents coin don't have you end up with a duplicate.