1940 Mint Set 0

[Legionary1]

Coinbuf:

My congratulations on the upgrades to your 1940 and 1940-S Lincoln cents; getting the '40 in MS67+ CAC was a real coup.

 

While we're on the subject of the 1940 Lincolns, I'd rather like to know why there's such a discrepancy in the point values between the '40 & '40-s and the '40-D.

For example, the point values for the '40 and '40-S in NGC MS67+ are 2,341 points and 2,307 points respectively; the value for the '40-D in the same grade is just 595 points, despite a census of just 5; this doesn't make sense to me.

Edited April 21, 2022 by Legionary1

[Coinbuf]

Thank you very much sir, I was (am because I still have it) very happy with the 1940 Lincoln 67+ coin I had in that slot.   But this CAC approved coin is to my eye a more attractive coin, while the few points it added were nice it more about the eye appeal for that change.    I have been looking for the 40-S Lincoln in 67+ for over a year now, the example that I had was a very low end 67 and this new coin is a nice upgrade.  I have seen a couple of PCGS coins and even passed on a CAC approved 40-S last year because the price tag was very high.   But recently the NGC pops almost doubled and I was able to acquire one of those newly graded examples.   In all honesty I do not think that this new 40-S will pass at CAC so I'm keeping my eyes open in case an even better example comes along.

I am in agreement with you on the 40-D Lincoln, the point score change between 67 and 67+ is perplexing indeed.    Not that I'm really complaining as I really like the current coin I have and would rather not look to upgrade that coin anytime soon.

It will be tough to find further upgrades now, there are a couple that could be reasonably upgraded price wise to a + but with low pops in 67+ or 68 it may be some time before one comes available in the market.   Between the rapid rise in prices, the price jumps to the next grade, and the low pops and availability for most of the remaining coins it will be quite difficult to improve most of the remaining coins.   But the fun is also in the chase so while I will continue to search I'm certain that you are doing the same.  

[Legionary1]

You're quite welcome.

It's a pleasure to compete with someone of your quality.

As regards the census for the 1940 cent, the census is 24, with none graded higher than NGC MS67+; for the 1940-D cent, there are just 5 examples graded higher than NGC MS67. Lastly, for the 1940-S cent in NGC MS67+, the census is just 7, with one graded higher. If anything, the point value for the 1940-D issue in NGC MS67+ should be equal to the others.  

 

As far as upgrades are concerned, there's a 1940-S walker in NGC MS67 for sale on E-bay right now; at $9,795, that's outside of my price range.

Ditto, for the 1940-D quarter in NGC MS67+, at $2,904.

 

 

Edited April 22, 2022 by Legionary1

[Ali E.]

On 4/21/2022 at 2:29 AM, Legionary1 said:

Coinbuf:

My congratulations on the upgrades to your 1940 and 1940-S Lincoln cents; getting the '40 in MS67+ CAC was a real coup.

 

While we're on the subject of the 1940 Lincolns, I'd rather like to know why there's such a discrepancy in the point values between the '40 & '40-s and the '40-D.

For example, the point values for the '40 and '40-S in NGC MS67+ are 2,341 points and 2,307 points respectively; the value for the '40-D in the same grade is just 595 points, despite a census of just 5; this doesn't make sense to me.

Hello. Please post any score correction requests by following the directions below. Thank you.

 

[Coinbuf]

On 4/21/2022 at 8:32 PM, Legionary1 said:

You're quite welcome.

It's a pleasure to compete with someone of your quality.

As regards the census for the 1940 cent, the census is 24, with none graded higher than NGC MS67+; for the 1940-D cent, there are just 5 examples graded higher than NGC MS67. Lastly, for the 1940-S cent in NGC MS67+, the census is just 7, with one graded higher. If anything, the point value for the 1940-D issue in NGC MS67+ should be equal to the others.  

 

As far as upgrades are concerned, there's a 1940-S walker in NGC MS67 for sale on E-bay right now; at $9,795, that's outside of my price range.

Ditto, for the 1940-D quarter in NGC MS67+, at $2,904.

 

 

Yes that 40-S Walker has been on Ebay for quite awhile, what I have found is that buyers who are spending that amount expect to see a coin like that have the CAC bean.   I have no idea if that coin has been seen by CAC or not, but I think it may be quite some time before it sells.   I have it on my watch list but it really is more just out of curiosity as my wallet says no way.   The 40-D quarter is doable if I did not buy another coin for the year, but I really do not like having that much money tied up in a single coin.   The only coin I have in my collection that is that expensive (actually more) is my 1914-D Lincoln.

From the photos the 40-D on ebay is not one that I find very attractive, looks to have a fingerprint on the obverse and just does not scream top of the grade to me.   And looking at the auction history for a 40-D in 67+ that ebay seller is really asking for all the money for a non CAC approved coin.   But the 40-D is much tougher to find above 67, only 28 total between both NGC and PCGS with one lone 68 at NGC.   Both the 40 and 40-S are much easier on the wallet, and might be doable if nice example comes to market.

[Legionary1]

On 4/22/2022 at 2:45 PM, Coinbuf said:

From the photos the 40-D on ebay is not one that I find very attractive, looks to have a fingerprint on the obverse and just does not scream top of the grade to me.   And looking at the auction history for a 40-D in 67+ that ebay seller is really asking for all the money for a non CAC approved coin.   But the 40-D is much tougher to find above 67, only 28 total between both NGC and PCGS with one lone 68 at NGC.   Both the 40 and 40-S are much easier on the wallet, and might be doable if nice example comes to market.

I'm looking on Ebay right now, and I don't see a '40-D cent in MS67+ by either NGC or PCGS....

Edited April 23, 2022 by Legionary1

[Coinbuf]

On 4/22/2022 at 7:32 PM, Legionary1 said:

I'm looking on Ebay right now, and I don't see a '40-D cent in MS67+ by either NGC or PCGS....

I was talking about that 40-D quarter, sorry if that was not clear.   There are several PCGS graded 40-D Lincolns off ebay but I have not seen an NGC one recently.

Edited April 23, 2022 by Coinbuf

[Legionary1]

On 4/22/2022 at 8:28 PM, Coinbuf said:

I was talking about that 40-D quarter, sorry if that was not clear.   There are several PCGS graded 40-D Lincolns off ebay but I have not seen an NGC one recently.

Understood.

You're right about that fingerprint; this (and the unattractive toning) is what keeps me from pulling the trigger and buying it.

[Legionary1]

On 4/22/2022 at 8:28 PM, Coinbuf said:

 There are several PCGS graded 40-D Lincolns off ebay but I have not seen an NGC one recently.

What keeps me from buying a PCGS coin in the grade I want is that there's no guarantee that it would cross over to NGC with the same grade.

I'd be mightily annoyed if I dropped several hundred bucks on a '40-D Linc in PCGS MS67+, only to have it become a -67... 

[Coinbuf]

On 4/22/2022 at 11:31 PM, Legionary1 said:

What keeps me from buying a PCGS coin in the grade I want is that there's no guarantee that it would cross over to NGC with the same grade.

I'd be mightily annoyed if I dropped several hundred bucks on a '40-D Linc in PCGS MS67+, only to have it become a -67... 

I do not do crossovers ever anymore, total waste of money.   Back when the NGC registry was closed to PCGS coins I sent in a small group, four or five coins I think, one or two even had green beans, not a single one crossed.   Now that NGC has once again allowed PCGS coins into the US coin registry there is no need to bother with that nonsense, I find the coin that I find to be the best quality for the grade and that is the one I buy no matter the plastic.

[Legionary1]

I'm beginning to creep up on the #1 slot, as I've upgraded my 1940-D Merc from NGC MS67 FB CAC to NGC MS67* FB. My 1940 nickel has been upgraded from NGC MS67 5FS to NGC MS67 6FS 

Edited April 29, 2022 by Legionary1

[Coinbuf]

Some very nice upgrades, congrats on those new coins.   The toughest part for me now is that an upgrade to any coin in my set is going to be exceedingly pricey and those upgrades can be difficult to find as few come to market.

[Legionary1]

On 4/28/2022 at 9:19 AM, Coinbuf said:

Some very nice upgrades, congrats on those new coins.   The toughest part for me now is that an upgrade to any coin in my set is going to be exceedingly pricey and those upgrades can be difficult to find as few come to market.

Your kind words are gratefully received.

 

Speaking of upgrades, I received an offer to purchase that '40-S Walker in NGC MS67. The guy dropped the price by $900.00; still way out of my range.

If I had the $8,500.00+ to spare, I'd do it in a hot second.

 

[Coinbuf]

On 4/28/2022 at 7:23 PM, Legionary1 said:

Your kind words are gratefully received.

 

Speaking of upgrades, I received an offer to purchase that '40-S Walker in NGC MS67. The guy dropped the price by $900.00; still way out of my range.

If I had the $8,500.00+ to spare, I'd do it in a hot second.

 

I had it on my watchlist for a few weeks and received an offer at about that same price, if one of us wins the lotto he may have a buyer  otherwise just too much money.

[Legionary1]

On 4/30/2022 at 9:00 AM, Coinbuf said:

I had it on my watchlist for a few weeks and received an offer at about that same price, if one of us wins the lotto he may have a buyer  otherwise just too much money.

Agreed

[Coinbuf]

@Legionary1 we have discussed the 1940-S half and the difficulty/cost to purchase one in the MS67 grade.  I am happy to say that I found the next best thing, in last months Stack auction I bid and won an MS66+ CAC example of this date.   This will be as close as I will ever get to that MS67.

[Legionary1]

On 5/4/2022 at 3:27 PM, Coinbuf said:

@Legionary1 we have discussed the 1940-S half and the difficulty/cost to purchase one in the MS67 grade.  I am happy to say that I found the next best thing, in last months Stack auction I bid and won an MS66+ CAC example of this date.   This will be as close as I will ever get to that MS67.

Congratulations. This acquisition means your 1940 set has dethroned my 1940 set from the #1 position that I have held in the NGC registry for seven out of the last eight years...  

Might I enquire as to what that one set you back?

The only realistic chance I have to reclaim the #1 position is to get that '40-s Walker in MS67...

Edited May 6, 2022 by Legionary1

[Coinbuf]

On 5/5/2022 at 7:07 PM, Legionary1 said:

Congratulations. This acquisition means your 1940 set has dethroned my 1940 set from the #1 position that I have held in the NGC registry for seven out of the last eight years...  

Might I enquire as to what that one set you back?

The only realistic chance I have to reclaim the #1 position is to get that '40-s Walker in MS67...

A lot, just under 2K, but I look at it this way.   At 2K I'm getting almost (perhaps equal) the same quality of coin at 1/4th the price of a non CAC MS67, I was willing to accept and pay the price knowing that.   And as I said paying 8 or 9K for an MS67 is just not something that I feel comfortable doing, that is a lot of money tied up in a single coin given the rate of gradeflation that has been happening over the past five years.   If 9K was just pocket money for me then it would not matter, but spending that much only to see the MS67 pops double at some time in the future and the value plummet is not a risk that I am comfortable taking.   This MS66+ coin provided an acceptable risk/reward calculation for what I think is a very appealing coin, and the CAC bean should help keep any downward price movement to a minimum.

I have not looked at the numbers but I do think you are correct that this change will put my set into the #1 slot for overall and NGC only scores for now, that was not a goal or desire for my set but this NGC coin is just so nice that I could not resist what I saw as a way to improve my set with the best coin.

[Legionary1]

On 5/4/2022 at 3:27 PM, Coinbuf said:

@Legionary1 we have discussed the 1940-S half and the difficulty/cost to purchase one in the MS67 grade.  I am happy to say that I found the next best thing, in last months Stack auction I bid and won an MS66+ CAC example of this date.   This will be as close as I will ever get to that MS67.

Before I had to downgrade my 1943 Mint Set for financial reasons, I had all three of my steel cents in NGC MS67+ CAC for the very reason you mention

[Legionary1]

On 5/5/2022 at 8:05 PM, Coinbuf said:

And as I said paying 8 or 9K for an MS67 is just not something that I feel comfortable doing, that is a lot of money tied up in a single coin given the rate of gradeflation that has been happening over the past five years.   

As I write this, there's this little gem for sale over at Great Collections:

https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1156294/1940-S-Walking-Liberty-Half-Dollar-PCGS-MS-67-CAC-Rollo-Fox-Collection

It's a '40-S Walker from the Rollo White Collection; the piece has the grade of PCGS MS67, and it's got the Green Bean from CAC; this piece is certain to go for stupid money when it sells.

[Coinbuf]

On 5/6/2022 at 2:57 AM, Legionary1 said:

As I write this, there's this little gem for sale over at Great Collections:

https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1156294/1940-S-Walking-Liberty-Half-Dollar-PCGS-MS-67-CAC-Rollo-Fox-Collection

It's a '40-S Walker from the Rollo White Collection; the piece has the grade of PCGS MS67, and it's got the Green Bean from CAC; this piece is certain to go for stupid money when it sells.

That will be interesting to watch, I expect that you are correct between the provenance and the CAC approval it will fetch a strong price.   I put it on my watchlist just to see where it ends up, this MS66+ PCGS CAC is one that I am also watching; already over what I paid with 9 days left.   And at the same time there is another PCGS 66+ but without the bean also on GC and under $300, this coin could be quite a bargain. 

40-S in 66+ with CAC

40-S 66+ without CAC

[Legionary1]

On 5/6/2022 at 10:34 AM, Coinbuf said:

That will be interesting to watch, I expect that you are correct between the provenance and the CAC approval it will fetch a strong price.   I put it on my watchlist just to see where it ends up, this MS66+ PCGS CAC is one that I am also watching; already over what I paid with 9 days left.   And at the same time there is another PCGS 66+ but without the bean also on GC and under $300, this coin could be quite a bargain. 

40-S in 66+ with CAC

40-S 66+ without CAC

Though your 1940 set has overtaken mine in the NGC Registry standings, your position there and in the combined NGC/PCGS Registry is not secure as I'm continuing to snap at your heels.

Earlier today, I had the winning bid at Great Collections for a '40 Walker in the grade of NGC MS67+ CAC (thus matching your own specimen).

Elsewhere on GC, I had put in what i thought was a safe bid of $250.00 for a PCGS-certified  '40-D Linc in the grade of MS67+ CAC; oh, how wrong I was.

I thought my bid was safe because of the relatively-low point value of that issue (when compared to the '40 and '40-S in the same grade).

By the time the hammer fell, there had been a total of 27 bids, and the winning price was $1,006.00... 

Edited May 9, 2022 by Legionary1

[Coinbuf]

On 5/8/2022 at 8:13 PM, Legionary1 said:

Though your 1940 set has overtaken mine in the NGC Registry standings, your position there and in the combined NGC/PCGS Registry is not secure as I'm continuing to snap at your heels.

Earlier today, I had the winning bid at Great Collections for a '40 Walker in the grade of NGC MS67+ CAC (thus matching your own specimen).

Elsewhere on GC, I had put in what i thought was a safe bid of $250.00 for a PCGS-certified  '40-D Linc in the grade of MS67+ CAC; oh, how wrong I was.

I thought my bid was safe because of the relatively-low point value of that issue (when compared to the '40 and '40-S in the same grade).

By the time the hammer fell, there had been a total of 27 bids, and the winning price was $1,006.00... 

That is a very nice looking coin, congrats on a nice addition with that 40 - S half in 67+ CAC

Actually the closing price for that 40 - D Lincoln was very cheap, most that I have seen offered for sale on dealer websites have been closer to $1,200-$1,400.   That is why I have said that getting a 40 - D in 67+ is currently not worth the cost, too much money for the low points it receives in the registry.   If you check the possible scores even a top pop MS68 (only 1 at NGC and 4 at PCGS) receives only 100 more points than one graded as MS67, it's crazy really.   I suppose if I found one that was a real screamer I might someday consider upgrading if the price was right, but I can think of lots of other coins I would prefer to spend a grand+ on than this coin.

But rest assured I am not sitting on my laurels.  

 

[Legionary1]

On 5/9/2022 at 4:10 PM, Coinbuf said:

That is a very nice looking coin, congrats on a nice addition with that 40 - S half in 67+ CAC

Actually the closing price for that 40 - D Lincoln was very cheap, most that I have seen offered for sale on dealer websites have been closer to $1,200-$1,400.   That is why I have said that getting a 40 - D in 67+ is currently not worth the cost, too much money for the low points it receives in the registry.   If you check the possible scores even a top pop MS68 (only 1 at NGC and 4 at PCGS) receives only 100 more points than one graded as MS67, it's crazy really.   I suppose if I found one that was a real screamer I might someday consider upgrading if the price was right, but I can think of lots of other coins I would prefer to spend a grand+ on than this coin.

But rest assured I am not sitting on my laurels.  

 

Your kind words are gratefully received, sir.

I am in complete agreement with you about the '40-D Linc not being worth the cost; now, if the point value were in line with the '40 and the '40-S, that would be a different case

 

[Legionary1]

Coinbuf:

My pursuit continues, as I just won the GC auction for a 1940 Mercury dime in the grade of NGC MS67+ FB CAC, thus matching your own specimen of that issue.

The previous specimen in that slot was a '40 Merc graded NGC MS67 CAC.

I paid a significant premium over the coin's fair market value. To me, the expense was worth it as it was the only such specimen available.

Whence the next upgrade to my set comes, I know not; I'll keep looking.

  

 

Edited May 23, 2022 by Legionary1

[Coinbuf]

On 5/22/2022 at 5:03 PM, Legionary1 said:

Coinbuf:

My pursuit continues, as I just won the GC auction for a 1940 Mercury dime in the grade of NGC MS67+ FB CAC, thus matching your own specimen of that issue.

The previous specimen in that slot was a '40 Merc graded NGC MS67 CAC.

I paid a significant premium over the coin's fair market value. To me, the expense was worth it as it was the only such specimen available.

Whence the next upgrade to my set comes, I know not; I'll keep looking.

  

 

That is a very fine example and a real nice upgrade to your set, congrats.   It did indeed cost a hefty price, but quality always does, and upgrades at these levels does require some commitment and resolve.   I have seen a few nice PCGS graded coins that would have been nice upgrades to my set, but most were pushed to the stratosphere in pricing, so I too continue to look and wait for the next upgrade piece to revile itself.

[Legionary1]

On 5/22/2022 at 8:11 PM, Coinbuf said:

That is a very fine example and a real nice upgrade to your set, congrats.   It did indeed cost a hefty price, but quality always does, and upgrades at these levels does require some commitment and resolve.   I have seen a few nice PCGS graded coins that would have been nice upgrades to my set, but most were pushed to the stratosphere in pricing, so I too continue to look and wait for the next upgrade piece to revile itself.

Again, your kind words are much-appreciated.

 

Shouldn't that be 'reveal' (unless you're talking about the hit to your wallet)?

[Coinbuf]

On 5/22/2022 at 10:55 PM, Legionary1 said:

Again, your kind words are much-appreciated.

 

Shouldn't that be 'reveal' (unless you're talking about the hit to your wallet)?

You are correct, autocorrect is great, when it works.  

[Coinbuf]

Just wondering if you saw the final hammer on that PCGS MS67 1940-S half  I can say for sure that I did not buy it!   Just over 20K without the juice and shipping, wow.

[Legionary1]

On 5/29/2022 at 7:00 PM, Coinbuf said:

Just wondering if you saw the final hammer on that PCGS MS67 1940-S half  I can say for sure that I did not buy it!   Just over 20K without the juice and shipping, wow.

Ouch.

Remember what I said about stupid money?

My congratulations on snagging that '40 Washington in NGC MS68; the way things are shaping up, I'll not be able to beat you even if I did get a '40-S Walker in NGC MS67...