Washington Quarter GTG
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47 posts in this topic

On 4/19/2022 at 1:47 PM, VKurtB said:

This is a topic that comes up EXTREMELY often at ANA shows and committee meetings. “How can we get the online crowd?” I keep telling them “You can’t, and it’s silly to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to.” Trust me, they simply don’t get it! They figure, “We’ve got hundreds of dealers here, where are the collectors?”

What do I need to tell them?

It’s not that I don’t want to go to shows. I just really haven’t had the time to go to any. Over the past 2 years I have averaged 70 to 75 hrs a week at work and all of it has been mandatory OT. Hell I barely have time to mow the yard much less do any traveling, not to mention that it kicked me up a tax bracket. (Hope you enjoy my money IRS.) I do want to hit a big show at some point though. Maybe Florida FUN in January. It has to be nicer than Illinois weather down there. St. Louis area would be a feasible trip for me. Any good shows in that area? It’s closer to me than Chicago.

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On 4/19/2022 at 11:47 AM, VKurtB said:

This is a topic that comes up EXTREMELY often at ANA shows and committee meetings. “How can we get the online crowd?” I keep telling them “You can’t, and it’s silly to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to.” Trust me, they simply don’t get it! They figure, “We’ve got hundreds of dealers here, where are the collectors?”

What do I need to tell them?

Tell them that is what the TPG's were created for, sight unseen buying AKA internet buying.   If they want to attract internet buyers, then they need to find a way to end the TPG model.

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On 4/19/2022 at 6:40 PM, Coinbuf said:

Tell them that is what the TPG's were created for, sight unseen buying AKA internet buying.   If they want to attract internet buyers, then they need to find a way to end the TPG model.

Victim of their own success?

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On 4/19/2022 at 10:03 PM, Coinbuf said:

That is one interpretation.

Isn’t it buying the holder instead of the coin? I mean, we already know most DON’T buy the book before the coin. I VERY seldom buy any already slabbed coins. I mostly buy raw. I bought four lots at the ANA Colorado Springs Ken Bressett sale last month, and all four were raw. I can’t remember the last time I bought any coin online other than a new issue. 

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On 4/19/2022 at 8:15 PM, VKurtB said:

Isn’t it buying the holder instead of the coin? I mean, we already know most DON’T buy the book before the coin. 

Yes 100%, but the key here is that many coin collectors today have grown up with the TPG model and are comfortable buying sight unseen because of it.   Coin collecting before TPG's had many traps and pitfalls, coin collecting after TPG's still has some traps and pitfalls just different types.   Neither system is perfect and at the same time neither is totally bad, overall today's society has changed so much that the average person does not have the skill set to be an expert in many facets of life that one could be 50+ years ago.   Think back to a time when most men could do lots of repairs to a car or home, now everyone calls someone else to perform those functions because we are too stretched for time or do not have the skill set or equipment to do those things.    Coin collecting is really not much different, the time restraints on most people today limits their opportunity to spend the time looking at thousands of coins to develop the numismatic skills needed to accurately grade.   It is just far easier to pay the extra bit and have an expert grader's opinion on the label, certainly there are some that desire to dig deeper and spend the time to really learn the nuances to grade individual coins or series.   But as the world continues to speed even faster, I expect the dependance on the expert opinions of TPG's to only intensify.

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On 4/19/2022 at 10:31 PM, Coinbuf said:

Yes 100%, but the key here is that many coin collectors today have grown up with the TPG model and are comfortable buying sight unseen because of it.   Coin collecting before TPG's had many traps and pitfalls, coin collecting after TPG's still has some traps and pitfalls just different types.   Neither system is perfect and at the same time neither is totally bad, overall today's society has changed so much that the average person does not have the skill set to be an expert in many facets of life that one could be 50+ years ago.   Think back to a time when most men could do lots of repairs to a car or home, now everyone calls someone else to perform those functions because we are too stretched for time or do not have the skill set or equipment to do those things.    Coin collecting is really not much different, the time restraints on most people today limits their opportunity to spend the time looking at thousands of coins to develop the numismatic skills needed to accurately grade.   It is just far easier to pay the extra bit and have an expert grader's opinion on the label, certainly there are some that desire to dig deeper and spend the time to really learn the nuances to grade individual coins or series.   But as the world continues to speed even faster, I expect the dependance on the expert opinions of TPG's to only intensify.

So I guess it would surprise you that I do MOST of my own car and home maintenance. I am an old school adherent in most of life. It’s how I was taught. I bought my everyday beater car with a broken cruise control. I fixed it in 15 minutes and it’s worked for 6 years. 

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On 4/19/2022 at 8:39 PM, VKurtB said:

So I guess it would surprise you that I do MOST of my own car and home maintenance. I am an old school adherent in most of life. It’s how I was taught. I bought my everyday beater car with a broken cruise control. I fixed it in 15 minutes and it’s worked for 6 years. 

It would not surprise me, but you are in the minority these days.   Fun fact, Tesla will not sell parts to a tesla car owner only to one of their qualified service centers, it would not surprise me that one day in the not too distant future that other EV manufactures could follow this example.   So some day once you are forced to buy an EV your days of shade tree mechanic may come to an end.

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On 4/19/2022 at 10:47 PM, Coinbuf said:

It would not surprise me, but you are in the minority these days.   Fun fact, Tesla will not sell parts to a tesla car owner only to one of their qualified service centers, it would not surprise me that one day in the not too distant future that other EV manufactures could follow this example.   So some day once you are forced to buy an EV your days of shade tree mechanic may come to an end.

I’ll never submit to driving an EV. Forget it. 

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Getting back to the ANA question I think it’s a very important one. And not one easy for them to tackle. However if they are to remain relevant, which I sincerely hope they do, they have to stay up to date with current collectors. I’m not saying that they need to abandon sound numismatics in any way, but to expand the use to the modern collector. A big part of that is online. I am willing to bet that more coins change hands on a given day from either eBay, Facebook and Instagram individually than all brick and mortar shops combined. And the scary thing is it’s mostly collectors that don’t have a clue.
 

The ANA needs to figure out how they can better educate new collectors on these new platforms. Like it or not it’s the future of the hobby. So they need to adapt and hopefully create smarter online collectors. And to be honest I don’t know that they are equipped. It’s mostly a bunch of very smart and seasoned numismatists that just so happen to be old men. No dig in any way but factual. They don’t know what the current market is like or how to adapt. 
 

Has the ANA done any market research? In my world we live by it. We won’t pick the color our drugs name has on the label until three or four focus groups have weighed in. Perhaps the ANA needs to do some of that research and see where the newer collectors are, where are their gaps, and then determine how they can remain relevant and help the hobby. I would be willing to bet atleast 50% of collectors who started in the last 3-5 years know nothing about ANA.  And for what it’s worth I sincerely hope they do because I think they are needed. 

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I would love to go out to shows myself but I cant get away from work. We also pretty much live from paycheck to paycheck. Everytime I start to save up money something happens and I have to spend it to fix a vechicle or something. If it werent for buying online I wouldnt be able to collect period. If I had the money and the means I would buy all my coins at shows and in hand but I grew up in poverty in a location where theres not much you can do about it. Cant even afford to pack up and move somewhere where I can. Im happy with most the coins I bought online. I found some good honest dealers on there and the pictures were very close most of the time. 

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On 4/19/2022 at 2:47 PM, VKurtB said:

where are the collectors?”

What do I need to tell them?

I think there are 'slow downs' as well as 'speed ups' with collectors of any type.  The COVID money is running out, buyers are spending on other priorities, etc.  

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On 4/25/2022 at 7:13 AM, Alex in PA. said:

I think there are 'slow downs' as well as 'speed ups' with collectors of any type.  The COVID money is running out, buyers are spending on other priorities, etc.  

I keep reading on here that a lot of people don’t live in “good coin country” - a lack of clubs, auctions, dealers, shows, etc. Lord knows northern Alabama isn’t like south central Pennsylvania is, but nowhere is. One Saturday, I had FIVE good auctions to choose from and I hit two of them. No Internet bidding. I miss that now, but my favorite firm up there is now cooperating with an online auction platform. They farmed it out rather than doing it themselves. But I still don’t accept that the Internet is a net plus for my collecting activities. Two of my other favorite auction firms up there don’t even have Internet service available where they’re located. No cellular service, and no wired. 

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On 4/25/2022 at 9:46 AM, VKurtB said:

I keep reading on here that a lot of people don’t live in “good coin country” - a lack of clubs, auctions, dealers, shows, etc. Lord knows northern Alabama isn’t like south central Pennsylvania is, but nowhere is. One Saturday, I had FIVE good auctions to choose from and I hit two of them. No Internet bidding. I miss that now, but my favorite firm up there is now cooperating with an online auction platform. They farmed it out rather than doing it themselves. But I still don’t accept that the Internet is a net plus for my collecting activities. Two of my other favorite auction firms up there don’t even have Internet service available where they’re located. No cellular service, and no wired. 

I wish we had something like that close. Only thing we have is pawn shops and they darn near sell for Esty prices. Well maybe not that bad but they are pretty bad. They wont come down either. 

 

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On 4/24/2022 at 10:21 PM, Woods020 said:

Getting back to the ANA question I think it’s a very important one. And not one easy for them to tackle. However if they are to remain relevant, which I sincerely hope they do, they have to stay up to date with current collectors. I’m not saying that they need to abandon sound numismatics in any way, but to expand the use to the modern collector. A big part of that is online. I am willing to bet that more coins change hands on a given day from either eBay, Facebook and Instagram individually than all brick and mortar shops combined. And the scary thing is it’s mostly collectors that don’t have a clue.
 

The ANA needs to figure out how they can better educate new collectors on these new platforms. Like it or not it’s the future of the hobby. So they need to adapt and hopefully create smarter online collectors. And to be honest I don’t know that they are equipped. It’s mostly a bunch of very smart and seasoned numismatists that just so happen to be old men. No dig in any way but factual. They don’t know what the current market is like or how to adapt. 
 

Has the ANA done any market research? In my world we live by it. We won’t pick the color our drugs name has on the label until three or four focus groups have weighed in. Perhaps the ANA needs to do some of that research and see where the newer collectors are, where are their gaps, and then determine how they can remain relevant and help the hobby. I would be willing to bet atleast 50% of collectors who started in the last 3-5 years know nothing about ANA.  And for what it’s worth I sincerely hope they do because I think they are needed. 

They have done targeted focus groups, and just guess what the number one misconception about the ANA was. And keep in mind, these are non-members who ARE into coins. They thought you had to be “nominated” or “invited” to join the ANA, I kid you not. The second misconception was that a serious time commitment was involved. To be on the Board of Governors, yes, but that’s nine people. 

Edited by VKurtB
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