MS70 And PF70 Coins Being Minted These Days 1 1

[Errorists]

How is it possible these many coins are being graded as such? They lower the criteria for such coins?

[VKurtB]

On 4/10/2022 at 6:29 PM, Errorists said:

How is it possible these many coins are being graded as such? They lower the criteria for such coins?

Numismatic intended coins do routinely hit 70. Coins intended for commerce virtually never do. 

[Errorists]

On 4/10/2022 at 6:32 PM, VKurtB said:

Numismatic intended coins do routinely hit 70. Coins intended for commerce virtually never do. 

So many lowers the value..

[VKurtB]

On 4/10/2022 at 6:38 PM, Errorists said:

So many lowers the value..

Who cares? The grade is what the grade is, as long as it’s a reputable grader. Modern proofs and uncirculated numismatic coins are over 50% PF/MS 70. That’s why paying big premiums for them is insane. 

Edited April 10, 2022 by VKurtB

[Errorists]

On 4/10/2022 at 6:41 PM, VKurtB said:

Who cares? The grade is what the grade is, as long as it’s a reputable grader. Modern proofs and uncirculated numismatic coins are over 50% PF/MS 70. 

It means I have to change my collecting tactics now..

[VKurtB]

On 4/10/2022 at 6:43 PM, Errorists said:

It means I have to change my collecting tactics now..

‘Bout time, honestly. 

[Errorists]

On 4/10/2022 at 6:47 PM, VKurtB said:

‘Bout time, honestly. 

Varieties are the way to go now because of it..

[VKurtB]

On 4/10/2022 at 6:51 PM, Errorists said:

Varieties are the way to go now because of it..

Hardly. The market for them is ridiculously thin. Far more variety “finders” than variety “buyers”. Excess of supply relative to demand. 

Edited April 11, 2022 by VKurtB

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 4/10/2022 at 7:41 PM, VKurtB said:

Modern proofs and uncirculated numismatic coins are over 50% PF/MS 70.

That's being conservative, especially for proofs.

[Moxie15]

On 4/10/2022 at 7:43 PM, Errorists said:

It means I have to change my collecting tactics now..

it goes not.

Collecting is for enjoyment, if you are getting coins for any other reason you have stepped into a different realm. 

[VKurtB]

On 4/11/2022 at 9:39 AM, Moxie15 said:

it goes not.

Collecting is for enjoyment, if you are getting coins for any other reason you have stepped into a different realm. 

Let me put what Moxie said even MORE directly than he did, Errorist. If you’re in this to make a buck, first and foremost, you’re part of the problem, not the solution. There are more than enough extracting value out of this hobby, and not enough putting value in. 

[VKurtB]

On 4/11/2022 at 5:38 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

That's being conservative, especially for proofs.

Yes, I know. Modern PF68’s are a lowball rarity. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 4/11/2022 at 9:10 PM, VKurtB said:

Yes, I know. Modern PF68’s are a lowball rarity. 

On larger coins -- esp. 5 ouncers -- more likely.

[VKurtB]

On 4/12/2022 at 9:01 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

On larger coins -- esp. 5 ouncers -- more likely.

Bullion strike?

[RWB]

On 4/10/2022 at 7:29 PM, Errorists said:

How is it possible these many coins are being graded as such? They lower the criteria for such coins?

Improved quality control in handling and packaging by the US Mint combined with TPG inconsistency in "grading." (After all, how many collectors will send back a coin labeled "MS 70" because it has a blemish?)

[GoldFinger1969]

On 4/12/2022 at 10:21 AM, VKurtB said:

Bullion strike?

I think so....the ATB series, or the commemoratives that we see from private companies.

[VKurtB]

On 4/12/2022 at 11:57 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I think so....the ATB series, or the commemoratives that we see from private companies.

I would never be surprised by a mint marked 5 ouncer making MS70, but the bullion strike might be a surprise. The curved Apollo 11 5 ouncer looks like an ashtray to me. “Coin of the Year”!

Edited April 13, 2022 by VKurtB

[GoldFinger1969]

On 4/13/2022 at 3:41 PM, VKurtB said:

I would never be surprised by a mint marked 5 ouncer making MS70, but the bullion strike might be a surprise. The curved Apollo 11 5 ouncer looks like an ashtray to me. “Coin of the Year”!

I want to get one of those, I like the holder it comes in that looks like the Moon surface. 

[RWB]

Interesting how "important" UNC-70 coins are to people who could not identify one if it were out of the holder.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 4/14/2022 at 10:18 AM, RWB said:

Interesting how "important" UNC-70 coins are to people who could not identify one if it were out of the holder.

On alot of moderns and commemoratives, the price skyrockets from 69 to 70 so I usually just get the 69's.  The Saint-Gaudens National Park commemoratives are a good example.  I wish I could find a 5-ouncer in 69 or 68 but I can't so I'm stuck bidding on 70's which are too pricey for me.

I once got an ATB Yosemite 68PL and paid barely more than spot.  I see one tiny blemish away from the key areas -- I am very happy with it.

[VKurtB]

On 4/14/2022 at 11:05 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

On alot of moderns and commemoratives, the price skyrockets from 69 to 70 so I usually just get the 69's.  The Saint-Gaudens National Park commemoratives are a good example.  I wish I could find a 5-ouncer in 69 or 68 but I can't so I'm stuck bidding on 70's which are too pricey for me.

I once got an ATB Yosemite 68PL and paid barely more than spot.  I see one tiny blemish away from the key areas -- I am very happy with it.

I haven’t bought any of the 5’s yet, and truthfully, the only one that might move me is the Gettysburg National Military Park. A guy I used to work with in the State Capitol said he lost his virginity at the base of the statue depicted on it. He grew up in G-burg. 

[casman]

On 4/10/2022 at 8:12 PM, VKurtB said:

Hardly. The market for them is ridiculously thin. Far more variety “finders” than variety “buyers”. Excess of supply relative to demand. 

I’d disagree with the ridiculously thin statement.  My examples:

59.99, Sold for $3,549

29.99, Sold for $3,500

$5, Sold for 4,500

$22, Sold for $1,500

Now, I could keep citing probably 100 more examples, but all this took was a little knowledge and eyesight.  I don’t play much these days as I can’t see like I used to, and really I’m indifferent.
I will agree that once the adequate supply has been filled, that it’s time to focus on other low pop varieties.  
 

As far as thé modern 70 ratios, they are skewed by requests not to holder the 69’s.  So if 1,000 coins go in, and 400 for example obtain a 70, it would show in the pop report as 0-69’s and 400-70’s.  People misinterpret this as “High” number/percentage of 70’s.  Just my opinion.  

[VKurtB]

On 4/14/2022 at 5:13 PM, casman said:

I’d disagree with the ridiculously thin statement.  My examples:

59.99, Sold for $3,549

29.99, Sold for $3,500

$5, Sold for 4,500

$22, Sold for $1,500

Now, I could keep citing probably 100 more examples, but all this took was a little knowledge and eyesight.  I don’t play much these days as I can’t see like I used to, and really I’m indifferent.
I will agree that once the adequate supply has been filled, that it’s time to focus on other low pop varieties.  
 

As far as thé modern 70 ratios, they are skewed by requests not to holder the 69’s.  So if 1,000 coins go in, and 400 for example obtain a 70, it would show in the pop report as 0-69’s and 400-70’s.  People misinterpret this as “High” number/percentage of 70’s.  Just my opinion.  

Congratulations on finding lots of “greater fools”. Try it now. 

[VKurtB]

On 4/14/2022 at 5:13 PM, casman said:

As far as thé modern 70 ratios, they are skewed by requests not to holder the 69’s.

Okay, what about the fact that WELL OVER HALF of what I send in among recent moderns (back to the 90’s) ALSO get 70’s? And I don’t even care. I send in stuff that have no Dansco album holes. Those go in NGC slab boxes. 

Edited April 14, 2022 by VKurtB

[casman]

I’ll also disagree with your greater fools comment.  Collectors are not fools.

As far as your personal modern 70’s, many play the same game, yet have little to no 70’s.  I’d say it also depends on how many you sent in and to which tpg, 1, 10, 100?  In 2008 I had 120 2008/Reverse 2007’s.  I’d sent the best ones to California and the second best to Florida.  ÇA returned ZERO 70’s, whereas FL returned 45 70’s.  For that good for you.

Edited April 14, 2022 by casman

[casman]

The topic as a reminder was varieties.  You claim thin, I claim otherwise.  I could very likely play the same today but I’ve done enough and have little interest in making money.

[numisport]

Try sending proof Ikes to NGC bet you won't get one 

[VKurtB]

On 4/15/2022 at 2:00 PM, numisport said:

Try sending proof Ikes to NGC bet you won't get one 

Big honkin’ empty wavy fields of nothingness. 

[numisport]

On 4/15/2022 at 3:04 PM, VKurtB said:

Big honkin’ empty wavy fields of nothingness. 

Some have those thoughts but it has been said that 1971 die preparation was the last of its kind that started in 1950. In other words with proof strikes there was intended cameo appearance with pickled dies that were polished to create heavy contrast. Gasparro engraving and design execution may have been the last of its type with the finer known proof examples I find stunning. See the registry sets of silver proofs, one of which is mine.

[Errorists]

All these high graded coins are flooding the market killing the value of moderns since the 2000s. Rarity is a thing of the past for them.