PCI Coins
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PCI has had half a dozen owners and it would probably depend on which owner/slab generation you have.

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Also just in case your are not aware, NGC does not accept PCI for crossovers you would have to crack out the coins and submit raw.  And as Conder noted PCI has undergone a lot of ownership changes and the grading is all over the map depending on when the coins were graded.

And in the future you should put threads like this in the main US coin or newbie section not in the counterfeit section of the forum.

Edited by Coinbuf
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Someone told me recently, and I have no way to know the validity, that he had a coin in a PCI holder that came back as questionable color. According to him people love to get the PCI holders, presumably they contain high sulfur, and within a couple of months the coin is toned. Apparently the toner heads love to get the slabs to store coins in. I have never actually owned or held a PCI slab and all of this is second hand. Seems unlikely any slab that even a questionable TPG used would do that, but who knows. 

Edited by Woods020
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On 3/17/2022 at 9:41 PM, Woods020 said:

Someone told me recently, and I have no way to know the validity, that he had a coin in a PCI holder that came back as questionable color. According to him people love to get the PCI holders, presumably they contain high sulfur, and within a couple of months the coin is toned. Apparently the toner heads love to get the slabs to store coins in. I have never actually owned or held a PCI slab and all of this is second hand. Seems unlikely any slab that even a questionable TPG used would do that, but who knows. 

Even small ANACS slabs tone the bejabbers out of coins. Several of mine have literally been ruined by small slab ANACS holders. 

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PCI was consistently inconsistent - at least by most reports. Some claimed to have found real "gems" and others "dogs" all under the same grade label language. This favored those with sound grading knowledge who could pick out the best pieces but pay on the label-grade price, or less.

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On 3/18/2022 at 7:44 AM, RWB said:

PCI was consistently inconsistent - at least by most reports. Some claimed to have found real "gems" and others "dogs" all under the same grade label language. This favored those with sound grading knowledge who could pick out the best pieces but pay on the label-grade price, or less.

Yup, can confirm this. 

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  • Member: Seasoned Veteran

Also just in case your are not aware, NGC does not accept PCI for crossovers you would have to crack out the coins and submit raw.

PCI coins may be submitted to NGC in their holders, but the submitter has to sign a waiver allowing NGC to crack out them out regardless of how they will grade. This is likewise true for all brands of slabbed coins other than PCGS. That is the only brand for which NGC offers straight crossover service, meaning that NGC will not crack out a PCGS coin if it fails to meet NGC's criteria for the stated grade.

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Just semantics, whether the submitter or NGC cracks the coin the result is the same, the coin must be raw for grading and the PCI holder and grade is lost forever.

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On 3/17/2022 at 10:41 PM, Woods020 said:

Seems unlikely any slab that even a questionable TPG used would do that, but who knows. 

The early NGC slabs ("no line fatties") used to tone white silver.  Crescent toning  on the coins closest point to the label.

 

On 3/19/2022 at 12:38 PM, Coinbuf said:

Just semantics, whether the submitter or NGC cracks the coin the result is the same,

Not quite.  If a non-PCGS coin is submitted for crossover it has to be cracked out and there is no guarantee that it will cross at the same level.  With a PCGS coin it will be examined in the holder and if it won't cross over then it will be returned in the same PCGS slab and you don't lose the PCGS grade.

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On 3/24/2022 at 3:03 PM, Conder101 said:

 

Not quite.  If a non-PCGS coin is submitted for crossover it has to be cracked out and there is no guarantee that it will cross at the same level.  With a PCGS coin it will be examined in the holder and if it won't cross over then it will be returned in the same PCGS slab and you don't lose the PCGS grade.

That was not the point of this thread or my reply, we are discussing the procedures for crossing/grading a PCI coin not a PCGS coin.   The result is the same whether the submitter or NGC crack the PCI holder the coin has to be graded raw and the PCI holder and grade opinion is forever lost.

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On 3/24/2022 at 6:27 PM, Coinbuf said:

That was not the point of this thread or my reply, we are discussing the procedures for crossing/grading a PCI coin not a PCGS coin.   The result is the same whether the submitter or NGC crack the PCI holder the coin has to be graded raw and the PCI holder and grade opinion is forever lost.

...i believe the submitter can request that the PCI or other grading service label can be returned with the newly graded coin...

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On 3/24/2022 at 5:46 PM, zadok said:

...i believe the submitter can request that the PCI or other grading service label can be returned with the newly graded coin...

So??  :screwy:  the coin will come back in a new holder with a new grade opinion, what good is that old label.

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On 3/24/2022 at 10:31 PM, Coinbuf said:

So??  :screwy:  the coin will come back in a new holder with a new grade opinion, what good is that old label.

Get enough of them and you can turn them in for a set of steak knives maybe? :insane:

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On 3/24/2022 at 11:31 PM, Coinbuf said:

So??  :screwy:  the coin will come back in a new holder with a new grade opinion, what good is that old label.

...so??..grade opinion not lost forever......

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On 3/25/2022 at 8:04 PM, The Neophyte Numismatist said:

I cannot speak for grade conversion, but I have seen some beautifully colored coins come out if PCI holders.

Ah, but were they colored going in? If not, aren’t they artificially toned? Partially kidding. I’m as anti-toning as you’ll ever find. 

Edited by VKurtB
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On 3/26/2022 at 2:56 PM, VKurtB said:

Ah, but were they colored going in? If not, aren’t they artificially toned? Partially kidding. I’m as anti-toning as you’ll ever find. 

I don't think they were colored going in, but I was not there.  If they crack and straight grade at NGC or PCGS (PCGS in particular), you are golden.  

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On 3/25/2022 at 5:49 PM, zadok said:

...so??..grade opinion not lost forever......

No it is lost, you just do not understand how the TPG system works.

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On 3/26/2022 at 4:50 PM, Coinbuf said:

No it is lost, you just do not understand how the TPG system works.

...oh i assure i do....the grade opinion is not lost its just not retrievable thru search...

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I was at a show today and saw one dealer who had about 10 PCI graded Morgans. Every single one was vividly toned. Some just rim toning, some full coin. None of them looked natural. Those slabs are ruining those coins. I see why I heard from someone recently that they sent two to PCGS and they came back AT. 

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On 3/26/2022 at 11:33 PM, Woods020 said:

I was at a show today and saw one dealer who had about 10 PCI graded Morgans. Every single one was vividly toned. Some just rim toning, some full coin. None of them looked natural. Those slabs are ruining those coins. I see why I heard from someone recently that they sent two to PCGS and they came back AT. 

No surprise there whatsoever. 

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On 3/28/2022 at 9:01 AM, Simple Collector said:

If you like the coins, why not keep them in the PCI holders? 

I dunno, maybe because PCI’s opinion isn’t worth anything in today’s market? Could that be it? Maybe? Ya think?

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On 3/29/2022 at 11:05 AM, VKurtB said:

I dunno, maybe because PCI’s opinion isn’t worth anything in today’s market? Could that be it? Maybe? Ya think?

I think it’s because you buy the coin and not the holder.

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On 3/26/2022 at 2:56 PM, VKurtB said:

Ah, but were they colored going in?

PCI was one of the favorites of the 'Shake & Bake' artists of early eBay.

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On 3/30/2022 at 9:12 AM, Simple Collector said:

I think it’s because you buy the coin and not the holder.

I’ve heard that often, but I SEE it in action almost never. This market DOES buy the holder. 

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Unless there was a different composition with the very early PCI holders, I'm thinking the coins were toned prior to slabbing, whether AT or NT.  I've had 2 PCI gold slabs and they have not changed in 15+ years. I can see some rim toning evolving, but not overall coin toning.  Maybe I'm wrong.

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On 3/30/2022 at 3:16 PM, coastaljerseyguy said:

Unless there was a different composition with the very early PCI holders, I'm thinking the coins were toned prior to slabbing, whether AT or NT.  I've had 2 PCI gold slabs and they have not changed in 15+ years. I can see some rim toning evolving, but not overall coin toning.  Maybe I'm wrong.

I never understood the PCI slab label outline system, (and never cared enough to learn it.) I once had a (one) PCI coin, and it’s now raw in my kid’s Dansco 7070. There are a total of 5 previously slabbed coins in that album. Various firms. 

Edited by VKurtB
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