How to replace a printed book index? 1 1

[gmarguli]

Maybe I'm not understanding your intent correctly. When you say free index, does it have any value as a standalone? If it is only good in connection with purchasing the book, why not just put it on a site like Google Drive and let anyone download it?

[GoldFinger1969]

On 3/15/2022 at 12:44 PM, RWB said:

The overhead cost of maintaining on-demand availability is high and not sustainable -- especially for hobby books guaranteed to lose money. The data technology has not changed - the means of transmitting it has. Plus, increasing reliance of the internet or expensive "cloud" storage further threatens the permanence and integrity of data/books/ideas.

Which is why I personally save key threads on this Forum....articles I find on the Internet from years or decades ago.....commentaries by folks like David Akers, RWB, etc....and of course, the actual books themselves and if possible in their PDF form.

As I mentioned on the RWB Saints book thread....I want to have key non-Saint chapters and the Saint Commentaries from the book available on my smarpthone/PC.  Since Heritage does not have that available (at least to the public; I am sure they have it in dowloadable format for themselves) I am going to eventually have it typed up in Word/PDF myself.   Will take some time or cost a few $$$ but well worth it.

Again, if you see something critical to your interests here or elsewhere, don't assume it'll always be there.  If it's unique or insightful information, save it....store it as a PDF on your own PC and back it up.  I've got lots of Saint-Gaudens Double Eagle commentaries from Bowers, Akers, RWB, etc....all saved.

As an example, there was a super-interesting spill-the-beans thread over at CU on the Origins of The Omega Countefeits.  Somehow, myself and another person DID save it -- but for reasons we can't recall, we both only saved the main storyteller's responses and posts (a guy who claimed that the Mafia was involved with the Omega's) and not the questions (insightful or deragotory) from the readers and contributors of the thread.  Makes the 32-pages of 1-sided commentary difficult to read and understand, like listening in on only 1-side of a telephone conversation.

You also have the infamous Franklin Gradeflation Thread which may still be there but the comments of people since banned from CU may or may not be there.  And who knows how long that thread will stay there.

[Woods020]

On 3/14/2022 at 8:45 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

And as with coins.....we need to ask....".....are they real....and are they spectacular ??"  

Great Seinfeld reference 😂

[Herief]

You can publish the book in print and simultaneously in electronic format and then just give a link to a private cloud storage, where there is already an index without the possibility of downloading or copying the book. For example I like the book The Double Helix after reading the summary with https://freebooksummary.com/category/the-double-helix, it tells about the discovery of dna. If it were in electronic form I could often come back to it and find the pieces I need about the researchers without reading the entire volume. And about the fact that it is expensive there are free repositories with link access, you can duplicate the book there and give a link when you buy it.

Edited June 25, 2022 by Herief

[RWB]

On 6/24/2022 at 7:47 AM, Herief said:

You can publish the book in print and simultaneously in electronic format and then just give a link to a private cloud storage, where there is already an index without the possibility of downloading or copying the book.  

The difficulty is that a digital site must be maintained which creates continual expenses that cannot be recovered from selling the books.

Edited June 24, 2022 by RWB

[Oldhoopster]

Sounds like your damned any way you look at it.  A detailed index adds to the cost and/or too many pages to be practical.  Technology like CDs becomes antiquated quickly.  Web sites aren't cost effective for specialty publications.

Maybe you're stuck with adding an abbreviated index in the back of the book.  It won't be nearly as useful as you had envisioned, but something is better than nothing.  But those of us who are used to researching and looking up things in references can usually muscle through it and find the info.  Plus you get the added benefit of inadvertently finding something you weren't looking for, and learning something new.

[GoldFinger1969]

Roger, using your Saints book as an example, what type of index -- and how big -- would you want ?

Now...that book is 640 pages.  And the annual review of Saints by year/mint is very easy to locate.....1907's at the beginning, 1933's at the end.  Nobody needs to know what page the 1924 commentaries start -- it's easy to find.

If anything.....the interesting commentaries you had WITHIN the annual reviews -- plus the Special Chapters -- and other specific items would be of interest in an index.  For instance, on the 1921 it might pay to have in the index the names of Goddard and Comparette.  Someone remembering their names but not remembering what Saint year they are associated with might find that useful in an index.

Outside of being able to find minor details, names, and curious incidents within your chapters....I really didn't see the need for an index in your Saints book since the bulk of the pages were chronological yearly reviews of Saints.  I do believe in FMTM it is much more useful since it would be helping to locate complicated processes involved in coin striking.

Edited June 24, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[RWB]

The Saint-Gaudens DE book needs a table of contents, but an index would only help with obscure references as you note.

Other books, especially when they get complicated or cover multiple subjects, should have a good index. The best index is a fully-searchable text. I want to get as close to that ideal as possible, but without generating continual expenses.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 6/24/2022 at 8:08 PM, RWB said:

The Saint-Gaudens DE book needs a table of contents, but an index would only help with obscure references as you note.  Other books, especially when they get complicated or cover multiple subjects, should have a good index. The best index is a fully-searchable text. I want to get as close to that ideal as possible, but without generating continual expenses.

How are you defining Table of Contents vs. Index ?

[RWB]

On 6/24/2022 at 8:17 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

How are you defining Table of Contents vs. Index ?

Just mentioning what I think the book should have. A ToC would be useful; and index less so.

[FlyingAl]

Personally, I don't have a need for an index as a reader. If I want to go back and find something, I'll find that section in the table of contents and then read the entire section, because often that yields better results (I often forget some minor details that rereading the section allows me to remember) than performing a search based solely off of memory and an index. Just my opinion however.

[RWB]

That works well for some books. But is not a lot of help for something like FMTM or Ulysses.

[VKurtB]

Not assuming what tech you use to write, Roger, but don’t most better word processors offer automatic index creation?

[Oldhoopster]

On 6/27/2022 at 5:04 PM, VKurtB said:

Not assuming what tech you use to write, Roger, but don’t most better word processors offer automatic index creation?

Not meaning to speak out of turn, but it was my impression that creating a detailed index wasn't an issue, it was determining how to incorporate it into the book in a cost effective manner.

I have numerous reference volumes for my engineering specialty and detailed indices save an incredible amount of time when you know you've seen the info but can't quite remember the details you need (usually in a hurry).  So, I really hope there is a solution to this dilemma

[RWB]

Word processors are all capable of producing indices on various levels -- something like a nested list. However, that means tagging every word that is to go into the index with its level. The WP files become larger, unwieldy and prone to crashing -- a lot. A simple searchable PDF file eliminates all the mess.

On 6/27/2022 at 7:27 PM, Oldhoopster said:

it was determining how to incorporate it into the book in a cost effective manner.

Yes. That is the core problem.

A printed index stays with the book, but every page is expensive in today's print market and every added page makes the book heavier.

A digital index sold with/included is small, costs about $1 and is available to the book owner as needed -- but format changes can make even the best digital version obsolete within a year or two.

A separate on-line index imposes maintenance and hosting expenses that cannot be recovered at the book sale.

I'm trying to keep this simple, convenient, and inexpensive for buyers and myself.

[VKurtB]

On 6/27/2022 at 6:27 PM, Oldhoopster said:

Not meaning to speak out of turn, but it was my impression that creating a detailed index wasn't an issue, it was determining how to incorporate it into the book in a cost effective manner.

Ebook or dead tree?

[Oldhoopster]

On 6/27/2022 at 10:39 PM, VKurtB said:

Ebook or dead tree?

Dead tree all the way.  For both numismatic reference and pleasure reading

I've been known to buy $100 books to attribute a few $1-2 coins.

One thing I enjoy is when I want to ID something in Krause or a German Notgeld coin, I always get sidetracked when I open the book.  Maybe I see something that I was trying to find a few months ago. Maybe I'll read some historical info about the coin I'm looking up, or something else. It's always fun.

Go to Numista and type in Germany 1873D 5 pfenning and that's what to get.  Yes, it's quicker, but I think you miss out on other learning opportunities

Scrolling isn't the same as turning pages to me. 

 

[RWB]

I have the same reaction when a restaurant tries to make customers use stupid QR codes, then want the diner to scroll through 20 pages of victuals. No menu. No customer.

[VKurtB]

On 6/28/2022 at 12:40 PM, RWB said:

I have the same reaction when a restaurant tries to make customers use stupid QR codes, then want the diner to scroll through 20 pages of victuals. No menu. No customer.

I’ve never seen one that was as useful as you’d want it to be.