Regarding adjustment marks 0

[RWB]

Poster "johnscott6443" on another forum (ATS) posted this photo and said "I would appreciate members thoughts on my posting of the picture of my half eagle with what I believe are adjustment marks."

The marks referred to are scratches - damage.

The practice of reducing the weight of a planchet by scraping the flat surface with a file was used only in the early decades of U.S. Mint operation. Overall improvements in rolling coinage strip and cutting blanks reduced weight errors. This led to adjusting weight by rolling the edge of a planchet over a file or emery paper. In Franklin Peale's new toggle presses, minor scraping on the edge was obliterated by the reeded edge die. Face-adjusting ends after 1836 in US Mints. Some Morgan silver dollars show parallel lines across the relief, but these are from scraping of silver strip in the drawbenches, and not weight adjustment.  Most Morgan dollar planchets were weighed and sorted automatically.

[RWB]

The coin's owner added this comment: "The marks seem so straight and calculated I can’t imagine who would want to scratch a coin like that for no apparent reason."

The contemporary reason is, actually, very obvious: to check for plated or other counterfeit coins. Cutting, scraping, hammering and other abuse of gold coins were normal attempts to verify that the coin was "real" gold. These acts would reveal low-quality fakes, but not coins with drilled & platinum filled insides, or ones that had been lightly pickled (called "sweating") in aqua regina acid.

[Moxie15]

Question: Why do the marks not cross the threshold of the wing?

[RWB]

That is simply where the scratching began. Someone scraping with a cut key or wire pipe brush, etc.

[Hoghead515]

This would be a good thread to post the Morgan I have with the draw bench marks on it. So new collectors can see the difference between drawbench marks and damage. Ive posted this one before in another thread. I bought this coin at the time just because of the marks. Then had it certified.  Its an 1878 S graded MS65. 

[Hoghead515]

I just got done reading about the adjusters today. The coin I posted above dosent have anything to do with them. Be cool if someone had a coin to post with file marks from adjusters. Would let newbies like me see the differance between adjustment marks, drawbench marks, and damage. 

 

[Hoghead515]

Heartbreaking to see someone scratch up a coin to see if its real. Brought back memories from a few years ago i seen a man scratching a coin with his pocket knife to see if it was silver. Cant remember what kind it was.  Was back many years before I was a collector. Didnt bother me at the time but now I collect it would drive me crazy. It may have been an old cull coin.  I cant say for sure. 

[GoldFinger1969]

So "adjustments" means filing away excess metal content ?

I think Roger (or someone else) wrote an article that referenced filing adjustments for Saints, do I have that right ?

[Hoghead515]

On 2/4/2022 at 1:18 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

So "adjustments" means filing away excess metal content ?

I think Roger (or someone else) wrote an article that referenced filing adjustments for Saints, do I have that right ?

Yep. They had heavy plancets and light ones and some already within tolerance.  If one was to light they would send it to be melted back down. If it was to heavy they would file the edges a little until it was within tolerance. They had women adjusters that all had a set of scales and they weighed every single planchet to make sure they were within tolerance. They used women back in the day because women done a better job at it and was faster. They had one woman boss who was over the other ladies. They kept the men away from them. The women had their own eating quarters also. They women were eventually replaced by scales that sorted them out but I think I read where the heavies still had to be manually filed.  

Edited February 4, 2022 by Hoghead515

[numisport]

As far as Morgans go certain dates are notorious for striations which are vertical lines on the planchets from drawing strips. The reason you can see these lines is simply because the strike is week. Thes can often be seen on certain Morgan Dollars with week strikes one being 1902-S as well as some Carson City coins.

[zadok]

On 2/4/2022 at 7:38 AM, Hoghead515 said:

Yep. They had heavy plancets and light ones and some already within tolerance.  If one was to light they would send it to be melted back down. If it was to heavy they would file the edges a little until it was within tolerance. They had women adjusters that all had a set of scales and they weighed every single planchet to make sure they were within tolerance. They used women back in the day because women done a better job at it and was faster. They had one woman boss who was over the other ladies. They kept the men away from them. The women had their own eating quarters also. They women were eventually replaced by scales that sorted them out but I think I read where the heavies still had to be manually filed.  

...u better be careful putting the words "women", "replaced" and "heavies" in the same sentence......i dont want to have to come looking for u when u show up missing....

[RWB]

On 2/4/2022 at 7:38 AM, Hoghead515 said:

Yep. They had heavy plancets and light ones and some already within tolerance.  If one was to light they would send it to be melted back down. If it was to heavy they would file the edges a little until it was within tolerance. They had women adjusters that all had a set of scales and they weighed every single planchet to make sure they were within tolerance. They used women back in the day because women done a better job at it and was faster. They had one woman boss who was over the other ladies. They kept the men away from them. The women had their own eating quarters also. 

Right on the nose!

[RWB]

What we like to call "weak strikes" can be caused by several things, not just low striking pressure. The result is a coin with diminished high point detail.

[DWLange]

Yes, improper annealing of the planchet is one cause, and improper hardening of the dies is another. The New Orleans Mint was prone to both, especially after about 1882.

[Conder101]

On 2/4/2022 at 7:38 AM, Hoghead515 said:

They used women back in the day because women did a better job at it and were faster.

And they paid them less.

[RWB]

On 2/7/2022 at 1:46 PM, Conder101 said:

And they paid them less.

Half what men doing the same job were paid.

[StrikeOutXXX]

On 2/3/2022 at 11:39 PM, Hoghead515 said:

I just got done reading about the adjusters today. The coin I posted above dosent have anything to do with them. Be cool if someone had a coin to post with file marks from adjusters. Would let newbies like me see the differance between adjustment marks, drawbench marks, and damage. 

 

The obverse of this coin has some remaining marks from filing that striking didn't obscure.

 

It's funny - in my own mind, when I think of adjusters, I drift to a Wicked Witch of the West type scenario with the adjusting lady/ladies in their wicked voice saying - give me that gold my pretty and filing grains at a time.

[RWB]

Until 1850 adjusters were male. Franklin Peale hired women because he thought they would be more meticulous in the work and he cold pay them much less.

(See: JNR Issue #2, Page 108. HIRING OF WOMEN TO ADJUST PLANCHETS AND OPERATE PRESSES – 1850.
Men were employed to adjust planchets and operate presses until early 1850 when women were given a trial as adjusters by coiner Franklin Peale. His innovation was to turn a significant part of the coining process over entirely to female employees, and to do this within a major government bureau. His decision was evidently inspired by a combination of errors by the male adjusters, and the drive to save money.)

[StrikeOutXXX]

Yea Roger - The 1796 coin is a bit early for most women adjusters - but maybe Sarah Waldrake or Rachel Summers worked on it as they started in 1795.

Males/Females - I still think in my mind "give me that gold my pretty" (Or silver if that's the case)

 

[RWB]

I recall the ladies you mention -- they made coffee and cleaned.

[Hoghead515]

I remember it saying women were less likely to come in hung over also than men.