Comments on GoldFinger1969's thread, "Roger Burdette's Saint Gaudens Double Eagles Book." 0

[RWB]

The thread GoldFinger1969 started several months ago is highly unusual, and might offer some instruction on how to record and preserve subtleties connected with a specific subject. For those not familiar with this 50+ page thread, GoldFinger1969 asked the author of a book on Saint-Gaudens Double Eagles (me) questions that occurred to him as he read through the book. These were both immediate questions and longer-term context and international questions and comments. By doing this, GoldFinger1969 was not only able to get the author to be more specific about certain coins or situations, but stimulated follow-on comments from other collectors. The result was a much deeper and richer experience for thread participants and readers, and (from the author's view) an opportunity to delve into details that were impossible to put into one "slim" volume of 650 pages. The questions and comments also provided opportunities for the author to learn from readers about  how to better communicate complex and previously unknown ideas and concepts.

This is an approach that I wish were available to all writers of well-researched numismatic books. I sincerely encourage book readers to consider entering a similar Q & A thread for books they enjoy. The patient exploration coming from this approach will be of considerable value to numismatists in the future - if others will follow GoldFinger1969's example.

RWB

Edited January 22, 2022 by RWB
Corrected page count

[GoldFinger1969]

On 1/21/2022 at 8:25 PM, RWB said:

The thread GoldFinger1969 started several months ago is highly unusual, and might offer some instruction on how to record and preserve subtleties connected with a specific subject. For those not familiar with this 50+ page thread, GoldFinger1969 asked the author of a book on Saint-Gaudens Double Eagles (me) questions that occurred to him as he read through the book. These were both immediate questions and longer-term context and international questions and comments. By doing this, GoldFinger1969 was not only able to get the author to be more specific about certain coins or situations, but stimulated follow-on comments from other collectors. The result was a much deeper and richer experience for thread participants and readers, and (from the author's view) an opportunity to delve into details that were impossible to put into one "slim" volume of 550 pages. The questions and comments also provided opportunities for the author to learn from readers about  how to better communicate complex and previously unknown ideas and concepts. This is an approach that I wish were available to all writers of well-researched numismatic books. I sincerely encourage book readers to consider entering a similar Q & A thread for books they enjoy. The patient exploration coming from this approach will be of considerable value to numismatists in the future - if others will follow GoldFinger1969's example. RWB

Brilliantly stated as usual. 

The book was an absolute joy to read and Roger's willingness to spend time responding to questions of all types with brilliant insight helped make it probably the best coin thread I have ever been involved with.  Additionally, his patience with beginner questions and receptivity to duplicate questions is greatly appreciated, and helped make the thread what it is today.  Thanks also to those who read it and those who posted comments and questions as well.  Everybody contributed in their own way, it's just rare that we have the ability to ask the author directly and he is as willing as Roger has been to contribute.

Needless to say, the best way to thank them is to buy the book, spread the word about it, etc. 

BTW, Roger, the book is 650 pages, not 550.  Don't shortchange your own work !! 

[RWB]

Thank you!

[Hoghead515]

From Mine to Mint was an excellent book also. Im starting on it again. I highly recommend it to anyone who has not read it. Espically if you want to learn anything about the early mints and where it all started. And all the equipment. Its a must read for every collector. He covers just about everything. Even how they were losing gold out the chimmney from the furnaces. Also how they recovered gold from the shower drains each year. Things Id never dreamed about before. Also got pictures and descriptions through the whole book. Hog gives it 2 thumbs up. If anyone is wondering where you can find it, I got an autographed copy from Wizard Coin Supply on Ebay. Some of the best money I ever spent on the hobby. Cant wait for the sequel.

[GoldFinger1969]

Yes, Hog, I have to re-read FMTM again including key sections.   Probably this summer when I have time.  Much more detailed book and harder-to-read than some of Roger's other books including the SAINTS DE book.

Edited January 22, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[Zebo]

On 1/22/2022 at 12:44 PM, Hoghead515 said:

From Mine to Mint was an excellent book also. Im starting on it again. I highly recommend it to anyone who has not read it. Espically if you want to learn anything about the early mints and where it all started. And all the equipment. Its a must read for every collector. He covers just about everything. Even how they were losing gold out the chimmney from the furnaces. Also how they recovered gold from the shower drains each year. Things Id never dreamed about before. Also got pictures and descriptions through the whole book. Hog gives it 2 thumbs up. If anyone is wondering where you can find it, I got an autographed copy from Wizard Coin Supply on Ebay. Some of the best money I ever spent on the hobby. Cant wait for the sequel.

I’m about fifty pages into it, but it will be slow going as I am also in the middle of six other books on various topics - including Mark Goodman’s book on numismatic photography. 

[RAJ on COINS]

On 1/22/2022 at 1:22 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Brilliantly stated as usual. 

The book was an absolute joy to read and Roger's willingness to spend time responding to questions of all types with brilliant insight helped make it probably the best coin thread I have ever been involved with.  Additionally, his patience with beginner questions and receptivity to duplicate questions is greatly appreciated, and helped make the thread what it is today.  Thanks also to those who read it and those who posted comments and questions as well.  Everybody contributed in their own way, it's just rare that we have the ability to ask the author directly and he is as willing as Roger has been to contribute.

Needless to say, the best way to thank them is to buy the book, spread the word about it, etc. 

BTW, Roger, the book is 650 pages, not 550.  Don't shortchange your own work !! 

I agree.  I have multiple copies myself as the book itself may one day be a hot collectable.  It is my bible for identifying and collecting saint varieties.  Nothing else comes close! Imagine being a niche collector of these for more than a decade and then discovering a wonderful book on the subject!  Thanks again Roger for the quality of your scholarship and the depth of your research. 😊

[Hoghead515]

Ive not read the Saints book. The only reason being that I dont collect saints. They are way out of my budget. But you never know someday I may be able to. I may try to get a copy cause they may be hard to come by one of these days. If nothing else I also been collecting books about coinage. Wont hurt to have a copy on hand. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 1/22/2022 at 2:25 PM, Ross J said:

I agree.  I have multiple copies myself as the book itself may one day be a hot collectable.  

I didn't think of that.  Good preemptive thinking, RJ ! 

I want to get the key COMMENTARY sections for each non-proof Saint typed into a Word/PDF document so I can look at it and read it on my smartphone like I have done for other key Saints/coin commentaries.  There is no online book option for this book unless Heritage changes course going forward.

I may just hire a high school, college kid, or housewife with plenty of free time to just type it up for me in the future.  

[GoldFinger1969]

On 1/22/2022 at 2:32 PM, Hoghead515 said:

Ive not read the Saints book. The only reason being that I dont collect saints. They are way out of my budget. But you never know someday I may be able to. I may try to get a copy cause they may be hard to come by one of these days. If nothing else I also been collecting books about coinage. Wont hurt to have a copy on hand. 

Even if you don't collect, the book would be interesting.  You'll learn alot also about the history of gold and the gold standard from the U.S. perspective.

A shorter less taxing alternative is to read the Bower's GUIDE BOOK covering Liberty's and Saints, but it is 18 years behind without a sequel since the 1st Edition.   Bowers is a great asset to our community but he's getting up there in age and I get not having the time or energy to do even a slimmed-down 2nd Edition.  Hopefully, Whitman finds someone to do it before 2024 and the 20th anniversary.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 1/22/2022 at 1:51 PM, Zebo said:

I’m about fifty pages into it, but it will be slow going as I am also in the middle of six other books on various topics - including Mark Goodman’s book on numismatic photography. 

The good thing is...you can skip around in Roger's Saints DE book and not lose anything.  Tougher to do in FMTM and other books. 

But if you want, you can skip years or even read the non-Saint chapters between the annual reviews of the Double Eagles.  Lots of good stuff on gold, gold flows, the Gold Standard, etc.  Roger really did a good job with this and it brough back memories of the early-1980's when I was in college and reading about gold and monetary systems in The WSJ.

[Cat Bath]

I find it a great reference book to keep nearby.

I'm often picking it up to refresh my memory on a particular date/mint

[GoldFinger1969]

On 1/27/2022 at 2:25 PM, Cat Bath said:

I find it a great reference book to keep nearby.  I'm often picking it up to refresh my memory on a particular date/mint

Ditto....but it takes a toll on the binding (softcover book) even though I am gentle with it.  That's why I reached out to HA about an online/PDF/Kindle option but nothing so far.  

Something to ask/pester them about at FUN 2023. 

Edited January 28, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[GoldFinger1969]

On 1/21/2022 at 8:25 PM, RWB said:

This is an approach that I wish were available to all writers of well-researched numismatic books. I sincerely encourage book readers to consider entering a similar Q & A thread for books they enjoy. The patient exploration coming from this approach will be of considerable value to numismatists in the future - if others will follow GoldFinger1969's example. RWB

Do we have any other authors here ?  I think some of the other veteran collectors here have stated they wrote books years ago, even if very narrowly-focused. 

They should create threads for their books, we might not be aware of them.  Some of us might buy the books...or have already bought them.....either way, we can comment on the thread if it's a topic of interest.

I personally have great respect for any author who spends time and effort researching a detailed concept like aspects of coins or coin collecting, even if it is a topic I am not really interested in.  It's a big undertaking, as anybody can easily see with RWB's Saints book and other books that he wrote that have threads here (i.e., Girl On The Silver Dollar).

[RWB]

As far as I recall, Len Augsberger and David Lange are two of the most notable that discuss their books online. Specialty writers for half dollars and others can also be found, but much of their conversations are very detailed with a small number of specialists. However, I've never seen a thread like the one you started and carried through - and that is a big difference...Are there other collectors willing to do the same kind of detailed scrutiny and questioning that you did/do?

I can visualize someone doing the same with Daryl Haynor's book of half eagles....but who? (whom?)

I've attempted to interest a couple of show sponsors to support an author's chat table and have a several writers take turns talking with collectors -- but no one gives a parking-lot penny about it.

[DWLange]

Quote

They should create threads for their books, we might not be aware of them.

I believe all or most of my books are already well known, but just for the record here's a list:

The Complete Guide to Lincoln Cents (just a single edition, but with many printings)

The Complete Guide to Buffalo Nickels (three editions)

The Complete Guide to Mercury Dimes (two editions)

A Guide Book of Modern United States Proof Sets (two editions)

The NGC Grading Guide to Modern Coins

History of the U. S. Mint and Its Coinage

Coin Collecting Boards of the 1930s & 1940s

Coin Collecting Albums, Vol. 1 - The National Coin Album & Related Products of Beistle, Raymond and Meghrig

Coin Collecting Albums, Vol. 2 - Library of Coins & Treasury of Coins

Coin Collecting Albums, Vol. 3 - Whitman Coin Folders & Albums 1940-1978

[GoldFinger1969]

On 1/28/2022 at 1:51 PM, RWB said:

I've attempted to interest a couple of show sponsors to support an author's chat table and have a several writers take turns talking with collectors -- but no one gives a parking-lot penny about it.

That boggles my mind. 

Lots of the attendees at a coin show like FUN probably have many coin books...to have a panel discussion with 1 or 2 or multiple authors from whom we have purchased and read.....seeing them discuss their books and then having the opportunity to ask them questions is a great opportunity.

I don't know why the show operators wouldn't do it, except that it might not make anybody much money.  But I bet an interesting panel discussion with authors on the same coin type (i.e., Double Eagles) or even on different coin types (maybe talking about multi-decade trends) would attract attendance and spur interest.

I know it would be "must viewing" for me !  

[RWB]

I had approached it more as a casual affair - like with my secretary - rather than a formal discussion about paneling.

[DWLange]

The Numismatic Bibliomania Society hosts an author at its annual meeting during the ANA convention to speak about his or her book or the writing/publishing process. I was the speaker some years ago, but I've not been able to break away from the NGC booth since then to give any programs. I also used to participate at the Whitman booth for its Meet the Authors sessions, but I found that few persons ever stopped their frenzied bourse perusal to chat.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 1/28/2022 at 9:55 PM, DWLange said:

The Numismatic Bibliomania Society hosts an author at its annual meeting during the ANA convention to speak about his or her book or the writing/publishing process. I was the speaker some years ago, but I've not been able to break away from the NGC booth since then to give any programs. I also used to participate at the Whitman booth for its Meet the Authors sessions, but I found that few persons ever stopped their frenzied bourse perusal to chat.

I think if you are just interested in the act of coin collecting, then books and authors and stories don't mean much. 

For me, the fun thing about coins -- especially the classics like Morgans and Saint-Gaudens -- is the story that goes with each type...each year....each mint mark.  That's what made Roger's book so fascinating....the stories that went along with specific strikings of Saints.  A book that just updated the totals and mint state numbers year after year is BORING.  You have to tell a story -- that book does.

When I show off my favorite coins it's the STORY behind them that is fun to talk about, not what it is made of, how much it cost, or where I bought it. 

[zadok]

On 1/29/2022 at 12:09 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I think if you are just interested in the act of coin collecting, then books and authors and stories don't mean much. 

For me, the fun thing about coins -- especially the classics like Morgans and Saint-Gaudens -- is the story that goes with each type...each year....each mint mark.  That's what made Roger's book so fascinating....the stories that went along with specific strikings of Saints.  A book that just updated the totals and mint state numbers year after year is BORING.  You have to tell a story -- that book does.

When I show off my favorite coins it's the STORY behind them that is fun to talk about, not what it is made of, how much it cost, or where I bought it. 

...coin stories r great....however, a great coin needs no words, its presence speaks for itself.....

[GoldFinger1969]

On 1/29/2022 at 12:52 AM, zadok said:

...coin stories r great....however, a great coin needs no words, its presence speaks for itself.....

As an example.....can you IMAGINE the increase in the common price of a 1928 Saint if we had been able to find the stolen bag of 1928 Saints (250 of them) ?  Wow....

As it is, the fact that most Saints (and Liberty's) surviving today came from oveseas hoards in Europe or South/Central America is facinating.  I didn't know that until I came to the Internet.  I just assumed people had saved them and not turned them in during the 1930's.

Edited November 18, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[RWB]

By mid-1932 almost all quantities of gold in public hands was in hoards. The general populace - rich or poor - seldom used gold coins. The rich used paper currency equivalents and checks, the poor never had any. Most international corporate payments were by letter-of-credit, transfer note, ear-mark and other non-physical gold and money movements.

[zadok]

On 1/29/2022 at 10:12 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

As an example.....can you IMAGINE the increase in the common price of a 1928 Saint if we had been able to find the stolen bag of 1982 Saints (250 of them) ?  Wow....

As it is, the fact that most Saints (and Liberty's) surviving today came from ovesears hoards in Europe or South/Central America is facinating.  I didn't know that until I came to the Internet.  I just assumed people had saved them and not turned them in during the 1930's.

...yea ive been meaning to give that bag back but it makes such a good door stop.....

[magdalenahom28]

On 1/22/2022 at 9:25 PM, Ross J said:

I agree.  I have multiple copies myself as the book itself may one day be a hot collectable.  It is my bible for identifying and collecting saint varieties.  Nothing else comes close! Imagine being a niche collector of these for more than a decade and then discovering a wonderful book on the subject!  Thanks again Roger for the quality of your scholarship and the depth of your research. 😊

Well, I don't have multiple copies, I have just one. I also believe that it can become a collector's item. I recently read "hamlet" and used https://edubirdie.com/examples/hamlet/ to do so. Still don't understand why so many people don't like it. It sounds like a worthy masterpiece to me as well.

Edited November 29, 2022 by magdalenahom28

[GoldFinger1969]

On 1/28/2022 at 9:55 PM, DWLange said:

The Numismatic Bibliomania Society hosts an author at its annual meeting during the ANA convention to speak about his or her book or the writing/publishing process. I was the speaker some years ago, but I've not been able to break away from the NGC booth since then to give any programs. I also used to participate at the Whitman booth for its Meet the Authors sessions, but I found that few persons ever stopped their frenzied bourse perusal to chat.

Thinking about this now....it seems to me that one of the reasons Randy's talk at FUN 2020 was so well-attended was the promise of him giving out 10 undervalued Morgan years/mints.

Even at a coin conference, having a talk on "The History of Saints, 1907-33" might not be an attention-grabber.  Better to have something like "Ways To Make $$$ With Saints in 2023" or something like that.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 1/29/2022 at 12:25 PM, RWB said:

By mid-1932 almost all quantities of gold in public hands was in hoards. The general populace - rich or poor - seldom used gold coins. The rich used paper currency equivalents and checks, the poor never had any. Most international corporate payments were by letter-of-credit, transfer note, ear-mark and other non-physical gold and money movements.

I'm surprised more lower-income households didn't keep their savings in gold vs. banks.  After all the "panics" throughout the decades and with FDIC Insurance decades away, you would think little stashes were more popular pre-1933.

[VKurtB]

On 11/18/2022 at 10:42 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I'm surprised more lower-income households didn't keep their savings in gold vs. banks.  After all the "panics" throughout the decades and with FDIC Insurance decades away, you would think little stashes were more popular pre-1933.

Very few families ever thought actual gold was in any way important. I STILL don’t. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 11/18/2022 at 12:13 PM, VKurtB said:

Very few families ever thought actual gold was in any way important. I STILL don’t. 

Well, you can't have a run on the gold coins in your floorboard !! 

[VKurtB]

On 11/18/2022 at 11:14 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Well, you can't have a run on the gold coins in your floorboard !! 

If there are any there, they will stay there. The house was built in 1888. 

Edited November 18, 2022 by VKurtB