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Comments on GoldFinger1969's thread, "Roger Burdette's Saint Gaudens Double Eagles Book."
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39 posts in this topic

On 11/18/2022 at 11:42 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I'm surprised more lower-income households didn't keep their savings in gold vs. banks.  After all the "panics" throughout the decades and with FDIC Insurance decades away, you would think little stashes were more popular pre-1933.

Middle and lower income families  did not have or save gold coins -- they represented too much value to hold on to. For middle class people, a gold coin or two might have passed through their hands occasionally, but again it was too much to keep and not use. Only big city banks had gold coin on hand, and then only for their "premier" customers. Gold was a dead asset neither yielding income nor drawing interest.

PS: It still is.

Edited by RWB
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On 1/29/2022 at 3:56 PM, zadok said:

...yea ive been meaning to give that bag back but it makes such a good door stop.....

I'm surprised RWB is the only one who has really written about those stolen 1928 DEs to the best of my knowledge.

Cannot recall anything written by QDB,  RWJ, etc....on that rather large theft.  As Roger has said, there isn't much information to go on aside from an old 1928 DE bag that was auctioned off.  For whatever reason, Mint personnel were not grilled about what went wrong when the bill to relieve the Mint Super of personal liability commenced 10-15 years later.

Edited by GoldFinger1969
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On 11/18/2022 at 7:07 PM, RWB said:

Middle and lower income families  did not have or save gold coins -- they represented too much value to hold on to. For middle class people, a gold coin or two might have passed through their hands occasionally, but again it was too much to keep and not use. Only big city banks had gold coin on hand, and then only for their "premier" customers. Gold was a dead asset neither yielding income nor drawing interest.  P.S: It still is.

You're essentially correct...but still, many people DID keep gold.  You know who did ?  Immigrants like my family....Italians, Slavs, Greeks, Jews, and other immigrants from 1880 on.

I'm not saying they were Silas Marner with a huge pot of gold coins.  A $20 double eagle might represent 2 months of income for some depending on the year we're talking about.  But after working a few years, it wouldn't take much to accumulate SOME savings -- and clearly, many people (esp. immigrants) distrusted banks.

Maybe there were some surveys of small denomination gold coins and how many circulated, I dunno.  I just think from talking to many of my friends today almost ALL of our grandparents/great-grandparents had a few gold coins (and none were higher than lower middle-class or "poor" at the time they worked).  All of us all had those elders turn in their gold in the 1930's....it was considered your patriotic duty....and recent immigrants were afraid not to comply.

My grandfather (mom's father) had a dozen or more gold coins he had accumulated while in the Merchant Marines, travelling around the world.  I don't know if they were Liberty's or Saints (he was active from 1923-41) or foreign gold coins (though I doubt they were those).  I wish I had asked him when he was alive.

Edited by GoldFinger1969
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On 11/18/2022 at 7:42 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

You're essentially correct...but still, many people DID keep gold.  You know who did ?  Immigrants like my family....Italians, Slavs, Greeks, Jews, and other immigrants from 1880 on.

I'm not saying they were Silas Marner with a huge pot of gold coins.  A $20 double eagle might represent 2 months of income for some depending on the year we're talking about.  But after working a few years, it wouldn't take much to accumulate SOME savings -- and clearly, many people (esp. immigrants) distrusted banks.

Maybe there were some surveys of small denomination gold coins and how many circulated, I dunno.  I just think from talking to many of my friends today almost ALL of our grandparents/great-grandparents had a few gold coins (and none were higher than lower middle-class or "poor" at the time they worked).  All of us all had those elders turn in their gold in the 1930's....it was considered your patriotic duty....and recent immigrants were afraid not to comply.

My grandfather (mom's father) had a dozen or more gold coins he had accumulated while in the Merchant Marines, travelling around the world.  I don't know if they were Liberty's or Saints (he was active from 1923-41) or foreign gold coins (though I doubt they were those).  I wish I had asked him when he was alive.

There is data on the subject of the amount of gold brought into the US by immigrants. It was requested by the Treasury Dept and provided by steam ship lines for multiple classes of passengers. First class had a little gold to exchange in Europe and vice versa, but they used letters of credit for most things. Steerage passengers often carried all they had in the world, with most possessions turned into coins and paper currency; most was paper with a few silver and gold coins, but not a large sum -- $5 or $10.

Experiences after landing in America depended on what the immigrant family did for income or by trade. Farmers had almost no cash of any kind except at harvest. Merchants cycles money through the business; wage earners barely paid the bills unless fortunate to have a needed skill.

I feel that most commentators give entirely too much credence to claims that ordinary people used gold coins or to its importance in the economy. Most of the stuff sat in Government vaults -- it was not wanted.

Edited by RWB
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On 11/18/2022 at 11:14 PM, RWB said:

There is data on the subject of the amount of gold brought into the US by immigrants. It was requested by the Treasury Dept and provided by steam ship lines for multiple classes of passengers. First class had a little gold to exchange in Europe and vice versa, but they used letters of credit for most things. Steerage passengers often carried all they had in the world, with most possessions turned into coins and paper currency; most was paper with a few silver and gold coins, but not a large sum -- $5 or $10. xperiences after landing in America depended on what the immigrant family did for income or by trade. Farmers had almost no cash of any kind except at harvest. Merchants cycles money through the business; wage earners barely paid the bills unless fortunate to have a needed skill.I feel that most commentators give entirely too much credence to claims that ordinary people used gold coins or to its importance in the economy. Most of the stuff sat in Government vaults -- it was not wanted.

European Jews seemed to have an affinity for gold and gold coins.  Probably because many were businessmen and/or involved in the jewelry trade.  Plus, when you needed to travel or flee persecution....gold coins were universally accepted.  Stories abound of many immigrants hiding gold coins inside the linings of clothing, which I am sure you are aware of.

I agree with you on the overall use of gold coinage -- most sat in vaults.  But lots were hoarded by various groups and I think that's why we continue to see a drip-drip-drip out of SDBs in the U.S. and more so European banks.

Doug Winter and others with contacts overseas continue to track a steady flow from Europe to the U.S. of Liberty and Saint DEs.  Nothing compared to decades ago....but enough to impact select pricing in certain dates.

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On 11/19/2022 at 1:11 PM, RWB said:

It appears that the most common asset conversion was into diamonds. Small, light, easy to transport a lot of value in a small space, easily converted into cash once safely out of Nazi hands.

I would think that even a small diamond -- while easier to smuggle -- would have cost a few hundred dollars in the 1920's or 1930's, right ?

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On 11/19/2022 at 6:45 PM, RWB said:

Wealth could be concentrated in diamonds and easily concealed (even swallowed). Gold was much harder to deal with.

Yes...and it seems an average 1-kt. diamond in the 1930's was about $75-$125.

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