puzzling hemiobol with horse facing observer - cannot attribute 0

[Baxeman]

For any experts and others out there, I was hoping for a bit of help.  I am a long-time world coins collector, but somewhat new to ancients - fascinating category.  I came across what I think is a hemiobol but a with a distinct feature of a horse not stamped in profile but rather front-quarter and facing to the right.  I cannot for the life of me find another example - hopefully someone out there knows what it is.  Please take a look at the attached photos and let me know your thoughts.

 

Updated/Added: Forgot to mention in initial post - the coin is 0.33 gm in weight and 6.4 mm in diameter

Edited January 19, 2022 by Baxeman

[Woods020]

Welcome. There are a few really talented ancient collectors that can help here. I am not one of them. With that said please provide a weight to two decimal places and diameter. That is required to start the search for those that know enough to help. 
 

Calling @JKK  

We need a JKK signal like the bat signal 

[JKK]

Without the weight and diameter, we're handicapped. However, I think your best candidate is BMC 3, Macedonia, Mende hemiobol. The animal is a braying donkey, not a horse. (Not being a wiseacre. Take me literally.) Look at the third one from the top.

[Baxeman]

Sorry, totally blanked on adding weight and diameter when posting - here it is: .33 gram weight and 6.4 mm wide

[Baxeman]

Thank you, @Woods020 and @JKK.  JKK, I think you are spot on the money, definitely looks to be the donkey piece from the link you sent, I will follow that thread. Thanks again for such quick help.

 

Follow-up question if I may - are these coins tough to find / rare in good grades?  I was lookup up horse instead of donkey, but even with the proper search, don't seem to find many fine examples

Edited January 19, 2022 by Baxeman

[JKK]

The listing says one sold for $154 in 1991, VF. I'd probably say VG for yours based on the reverse. I don't know how hard they are to find, but if they were very difficult, I doubt you could get a 2500-year-old silver coin for $150 or even $350 (which I'm guessing it might cost today). I would search for sold listings based on pieces of this description: 

Mende, Macedonia. AR Hemiobol c. 480 BC. 0,31 g.

Obv: 's head right.
Rev. Quadripartite incuse square. 

Babelon pl. 51, 12. BMC 3. Very rare. Very fine.

If you find a lot, safe to guess they're not that rare. If you find none or few, probably is rare. Good luck.

[Baxeman]

@JKK - thanks again for the help on the 1st question.  If I may, since no good deed goes unpunished , ask you for your opinion on 1 other piece:  This one weighs .67 g and is 9.1 mm wide.  I can find some obol examples with a rooster/hen/gamecock, but the other side, which I think is a beast with a human face, is giving me trouble. Any thoughts on what it could be?:

 

thanks in advance

[JKK]

It might help you that the numismatic descriptor for the chicken on obverse seems to be "cockerel." At least from a search point of view.

I see the human face on the reverse, which appears to be partly carved from a sculpture block, which in turn I doubt is the actual depiction. Considering the dinky size, you did a pretty good job on the photography. It'll take a long time to go through all the Greek cities in Wildwinds looking for it, but you have a fair chance at doing so. I'd use my browser search for "cockerel" on a given page and just examine the hits. Or you could scroll and look for the incuse block (or whatever) with a human face chiseled out of the right side of the reverse. Either will take a lot of effort, but if you persist you will probably find it.

[Baxeman]

Thanks @JKK, will do as you suggested

[Baxeman]

Hello again @JKK and others on this forum.  Hoping to tap into your expertise once more.  I have a piece that I think is from Corcyra (bronze 6.74g, 21mm), but having a hard time finding other examples.  The obverse appears to be a Herakles covered in lionskin typical for Corcyra, and the reverse is a prow of a galley.  The lettering is what intrigues me and is giving me trouble at the same time.  I think it's greek ΔAMO CTPATOC / Damostratus

I found an old reference from an 1883 book in google books that seems to match my hunch, but no pictures, so I am a bit curious why there is no other indication of this coin online:

https://books.google.com/books?id=zg-zb0OC7AUC&pg=PA147&lpg=PA147&dq=DAMO+CTPATOC+coin&source=bl&ots=8YD0D0lsvb&sig=ACfU3U0izY538bGymke0xcqLrzRynXC0-Q&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwitzqDLltf1AhXBN30KHUXJB08Q6AF6BAgEEAM#v=onepage&q=DAMO CTPATOC coin&f=false

  A rare example, or I am entirely wrong in my search?   

Thanks in advance

6.74g, 21mm

 

[JKK]

Your interpretation of the evidence seems sound. I didn't find the coin in SG for Corcyra, nor on WW, but I found enough clearer examples of young Heracles/prow to see why one would look in Corcyra, Hellenistic period.

[Baxeman]

thanks again @JKK

 

[Baxeman]

Another week another mystery, for me as a newbie at least.  @JKK, any help you can offer on this one?  It's an 18mm, 4.55 g coin, by size/weight looks to be a drachm.  It has a AΛEΞANΔΡOY next to what I think is seated Zeus holding an eagle with an owl beneath?  What confuses me is that all of the examples I find online with "AΛEΞANΔΡOY" are of Heracles or Alexander in lionskin, whereas this one is a diademed head with Ammon horn?  I can't find any example of that combination - thoughts?

[JKK]

Good job on the denomination; that weight is right for a drachm. Nice piece, looks authentic at least based on what I can see, but...I have no idea what an Ammon horn is, but the portrait definitely lacks lionskin and has what I think is a diadem. It's a younger portrait of Herc, so that might be a factor. SG only has four AR drachms of Alexander III and none of them them answer this description (whether or not it's an owl, it is obviously a bird, and none are mentioned; also none of the drachms have this plain bed hair and diadem look).

So I had a surf through all 246 hits of AR drachm on WW Alexander III, and not one match for the bust. The coin almost surely was not issued under Alex. So there are at least two possibilities:

• It's not Heracles, but perhaps Alex himself on a posthumous issue.
• It almost has to be a posthumous issue, or issued by a subsequent Hellenistic ruler. I had thought of Alexander IV or V, but looks like it's no baklava for us there.

That's a long-winded way of saying I have no idea WTF it is, except for agreeing that it's a Hellenistic AR drachm (which you already deduced, so that's just a massive help). It could also be a contemporary imitation or counterfeit; don't know. But your tell is the lack of the lionskin headdress. When you figure it out, I'd like to know what it is.

Edited February 8, 2022 by JKK

[Baxeman]

Thanks as always, @JKK, for the quick reply.  I'll spend some more time on it with your pointers in mind...hopefully will find something to update the post.  Thanks again!

[Baxeman]

just an addition to the question above - the horn above the ear on the coin, what I referred to as horn of Ammon, seems to indicate that the bust is of a dietefied Alexander or someone else.  In some pieces with a similar bust that's what it was referred to, but again, on the other side was sitting Zeus but with ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ behind Zeus, not AΛEΞANΔΡOY. 

[Woods020]

I know less than nothing about ancients, but I do know how to use google image search haha. 
 

I found this one that seems to have a lot of the same features albeit in gold. Not sure if this helps or hurts narrow it down and probably so far off base it isn’t even funny. 
 

https://www.vcoins.com/en/stores/artancient/218/product/ancient_greek_gold_alexander_stater_coin_of_king_lysimachos__297_bc/748495/Default.aspx

[Baxeman]

Thanks @Woods020 - interesting example and helps nudge me in the direction that indeed the portrait is of Alexander.  But it also adds to the mystery because in the gold version, the deified head of Alexander is mated to an athena on the back, with words BASILEWS LUSIMAXOU.  Those examples is what I found in silver as well, but not in the two sides like mine (where it's Zeus instead of Athena and with Alexander as the name).  Thanks for looking this up, knowing it's Alexander will hopefully narrow down my research.

[Baxeman]

Hi all - came across another piece that I cannot attribute.  Seems like the small ones are the ones that get me every time:  2.11 grams, 13 mm on long axis.  Looks to be bronze.  I cannot find anything matching the design - what does it look like to you? Hoping @JKK and other experts can nudge me in the right direction.  Thanks in advance.

[Baxeman]

[EagleRJO]

On 1/18/2022 at 8:15 PM, Woods020 said:

We need a JKK signal like the bat signal 

I am working on a auto hyperlink to tag JKK if the attached is posted with a questions on Ancients. 

Edited March 10, 2023 by EagleRJO

[Baxeman]

love it

 

[JKK]

Heh. Okay, I'm tired, but you all made me chuckle (especially the part about me being an expert...I wish). Used to be we had a special ancients forum, but someone decided it was better to just muddy all the different coin subjects up into one completely unusable forum that I almost never visit because I'm still irritated about and by that. So yeah, if you don't yell for me, I won't see it here thanks to that clever forum management decision.

The coin, which I reckon is probably Greek (or at any rate let's start with that). The strike is off center on both sides, but there is evidence of a rim legend on one side. We'll take what we can get. The person_of_uncertain_paternity here is that we don't even easily know which way to orient either side. We may fairly assume that the right angle on one side is one part of a box framing some device, which is just as well because that's the only thing we can see. I have a hard time imagining the part with the faint surviving ring/rim around it as anything but a horse right, with or without rider. I think it very unlikely that either side depicts a head, which rules out about 75% of the possibilities.

I suggest a Wildwinds search on the cities of Aspendos; just maybe Alexander I of Macedon; outside chance of Pharkadon, Thessaly; Skepsis, Troas, maybe. I'm assuming you inferred a hemiobol denomination from size. That's the best I have for you right now.

[Baxeman]

Thanks as always, @JKK, for the pointers and guidance.  I am still pursuing all the leads from above.  It's interesting how once the mind sees something, it's difficult to ignore it - which is why I didn't mention the design interpretation myself, wanted to keep it unbiased for your review.  But since you've looked at it already, I attached two pics below with the outline of what I thought I saw, and wanted to get your opinion if I am just crazy and my mind is playing tricks on me:

In the first one, the side with the square border, it's some beast, like a dog with a tongue out.  Maybe a Molossus breed from Greece, perhaps Cerberus itself.  The other side has what appears to me at least do be a bust with a Corinthian helmet (outlined), but admittedly, the face is weird and kind of punched in, but I can't come up with anything else.  Thoughts?

[JKK]

That might be a gorgon. There are a bunch of gorgon designs that look like a nasty face, and some come in a box. Not sure about the helmet idea as I don't really see enough elements of such a design.

[Baxeman]

Thank you @JKK, I'll keep digging and give gorgon option a go