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SP Coins
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22 posts in this topic

On 12/29/2021 at 12:08 AM, Stackerdude21 said:

Well, if it’s meaningless then why do I have it printed on an NGC label? 

To make the coin appear to be something it is not. Without publicly available data and clear definition of the term, it is equivalent to speculation or a wild guess. What any self-respecting TPG would do this is incomprehensible to me.

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On 12/28/2021 at 10:08 PM, Stackerdude21 said:

Well, if it’s meaningless then why do I have it printed on an NGC label? 

If you can post a photo of the label or tell us what coin at least you might get some better answers.   As you can see this is a hot button issue for Roger so his replies are driven by his dislike of the subject as opposed to any educational value.   However he is not wrong, the term specimen has no real definition in the numismatic world and leads to confusion.

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On 12/28/2021 at 6:40 PM, RWB said:

Not a "peeve" I care to "pet."  More like want to squish like a roach. If there is no accepted definition, then the term is meaningless.

Not sure I would go THAT far in dissent. SP is used for coins that are “neither fish nor fowl”, i.e. neither a proof nor a production strike. Of course, if one is of a mind that people in the hobby are disallowed from using a term because an individual cannot find that specific term used in a government NARA archive, well, he creates his own unnecessary drama, doesn’t he? He likes creating drama. It’s his thing. 

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Coinbuf,

If you go to my member listings you can view a few of my “SP” and SMS coins. I looked up “Specimen” coins on a few internet chat boards…eh, no one seemed to know. One “poster” suggested ‘SP’ was a moniker used by NGC and ‘SMS’ was used by PCGS.  However, I have SMS Kennedy halves so dat ain’t true. It appears SMS we’re ‘Transitional.’

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On 12/29/2021 at 11:03 AM, Coinbuf said:

 As you can see this is a hot button issue for Roger so his replies are driven by his dislike of the subject as opposed to any educational value. 

False. My opinions are based on standard scientific methodology - a key part of objective research. I do not "dislike the subject" - rather, I object to undefined terms, randomly applied, and to the "worship" given those meaningless words. That has considerable educational value - but only if one cares to have an open mind and is looking for truth not marketing .

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The even more troubling thing is that there are coins that genuinely ARE Specimen strikes, by ANY definition, that the TPGS firms do not recognize as such. Example: the quadruple struck specimen pieces individually struck from hand selected planchets done as part of the Royal Mint (Wales) tour. An optional part, but still part. 

Edited by VKurtB
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[Memo to file... last edited only a month ago, the Wikipedia entry for the 1913 Liberty nickels -- Eliasberg, Olsen, Norweb, Walton and McDermott -- continues to refer to them as specimens with a note that "two have 'proof surfaces' and the other three were produced with standard striking techniques." (Emphases mine.) 

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I’ve concluded at least to this juncture in time that an “SP” coin has a high luster almost chrome like finish unlike a Cameo. I could be wrong but my SP Canadian Griffon almost put my eye out for brilliance when I gazed upon it first time. Dang, that’s a shiny one👍

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