2022 Silver Eagles Price 0

[Raygun99]

Kind of new to this hobby and started to look at purchasing 2022 Silver Eagles when they are released.  The mark ups from on line bullion houses (I have looked at several) all seem to be aprox 30% + mark up after S$H.   If I was to purchase 20x the break on prices not that significant.  Silver at $23 oz and on line prices around $33.  Is this the only secure way to purchase ? 

[GBrad]

Welcome to the forum.  Give it some time and I am sure you will have several members chime in here on these new ASE's.  I, myself, am not a major collector of ASE's but there are some here that are.  As for your question, just to clarify, are you asking from a standpoint of collecting these new ASE's or are you just interested in purchasing Silver bullion?  I think that may help clarify your question or I may have just misunderstood what you are asking.  

[Raygun99]

To clarify I initially wanted to own 21 new ones every year . 1x to include in my collectors display book. The remaining 20 tube  to set aside for future value growth.  But a 30% premium would take a long time to appreciate knowing even if I sold them I would have additional costs.  Love to hear how other view.

[VKurtB]

They have never been available before the first of the year before. Yes, they have been orderable, but not shippable. There is usually a mass delivery at the Orlando FUN show that is the first shipment. Just like at this year’s summer FUN was the first place one could physically buy the Type 2’s.

Edited December 7, 2021 by VKurtB

[Raygun99]

  The prices are always more than 30% higher than the spot silver prices when purchased on line from the major silver bullion distributors. Even in the release years.  Is this just the normal mark up?   If so it certainly not as much for appreciation / investing value.  I would just be purchasing 1 or 2 for collector trade value. 

[VKurtB]

On 12/7/2021 at 2:36 PM, Raygun99 said:

  The prices are always more than 30% higher than the spot silver prices when purchased on line from the major silver bullion distributors. Even in the release years.  Is this just the normal mark up?   If so it certainly not as much for appreciation / investing value.  I would just be purchasing 1 or 2 for collector trade value. 

Yes, this is normal markup for a “monetary mess” year, in which inflation is built into expectations. There have been this type of year before. 2011 comes to mind. People got scared into ridiculous markups then and it is happening again. Will every year be like this? No. But there is also the “in a hurry” premium being applied now. By about April, that’ll be long gone.

[James Zyskowski]

Welcome. Ase’s have the largest premium because they are number one in the world. $10-15 over spot. If I were you I would study up on bullion. Beware that silver is the worst to try and guess what’s next. 40,000,000 ase’s a year doesn’t make them rare. The collectors editions are another story and require study to understand that market. Silver selling is not like say ,sneakers.  Studying numismatics may help you see other avenues to go down. Perhaps slabbed rare coins or stacker bullion that has a lower premium. eBay is a whole different animal and requires study and practice to master. Good luck 😉

[Reno Raines]

If anyone is just merely wanting gold or silver bullion maybe they should go to an online bullion dealer such as sdbullion.com instead of buying ASE's or gold coins. Anyway it's  just a thought.

To the OP: If you're wanting a total of twenty one ounces of silver ( buying twenty one ASE's equals twenty one ounces of silver) you could buy one NGC graded 2021 type 1 or type 2 MS70 ASE and two ten ounce bars of silver from sdbullion.com (the bars of silver will appreciate in value at a much faster pace than ASE's) which would be a lot cheaper compared to buying twenty - one ASE's since it seems to me that you're just looking to make a quick buck or trade and not be a true ASE collector which requires time and a lot of patience for ASE's to appreciate in value.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Tony Follis

[VKurtB]

You pay extra for EVERYTHING in pricing ASE’s. Want them quick? Extra. Want them first? Even MORE extra. Want them of a particular date? Extra. Everything over base bullion is extra. Want the right to return less than gradable ones? A whole bunch extra. Plus, the fabrication premium is a waaaaaaay higher than it used to be just a few years ago. The mint was mandated to increase gross margins on EV-ER-Y-THING, and that’s not by a little bit either.

Edited December 8, 2021 by VKurtB

[Mohawk]

On 12/7/2021 at 11:34 PM, VKurtB said:

You pay extra for EVERYTHING in pricing ASE’s. Want them quick? Extra. Want them first? Even MORE extra. Want them of a particular date? Extra. Everything over base bullion is extra. Want the right to return less than gradable ones? A whole bunch extra. Plus, the fabr

Man, is THAT the truth, Kurt!!! If you want to get into an area of collecting where you're guaranteed to overpay, ASEs will certainly fit the bill.  Sadly, because of the U.S. Mint, that applies to Morgan and Peace Dollars now, too.  Way to go U.S. Mint.

[VKurtB]

On 12/7/2021 at 10:36 PM, Mohawk said:

Man, is THAT the truth, Kurt!!! If you want to get into an area of collecting where you're guaranteed to overpay, ASEs will certainly fit the bill.  Sadly, because of the U.S. Mint, that applies to Morgan and Peace Dollars now, too.  Way to go U.S. Mint.

I saw one dealer at Rosemont in August who had a “laid open roll” of mixed date  ASE’s of at least several different dates, some with edge toning. I said, “Lemme guess, you bought a Dansco album full.” He said, “Nope. Two, and both stopped a few years back.” That’s today’s secondary market.

If you keep a bullion strike only Dansco, no proofs, no burnished, no nothing, the Type 2 2021 starts on a new page. Neat.

Edited December 8, 2021 by VKurtB

[Mohawk]

On 12/7/2021 at 11:41 PM, VKurtB said:

I saw one dealer at Rosemont in August who had a “laid open roll” of mixed date  ASE’s of at least several different dates, some with edge toning. I said, “Lemme guess, you bought a Dansco album full.” He said, “Nope. Two, and both stopped a few years back.” That’s today’s secondary market.

Not surprised that they both stopped a few years back....ASEs have just gone insane, in my opinion.  But I suppose that's true for any of the 1 ounce silver bullion coins, though ASEs are likely the worst offenders.  However, Libertads have had some insanity as well.  It's really a shame...I remember a time when both ASEs and Libertads were fun and affordable options for collectors.....though this was back when I first started collecting as an adult, so 1999-2000ish.  I don't know....but what I do know is that the U.S. Mint sure knows how to spot a cash cow and milk it to death, and the collectors are the ones who pay in the long term.

[VKurtB]

On 12/7/2021 at 10:52 PM, Mohawk said:

Not surprised that they both stopped a few years back....ASEs have just gone insane, in my opinion.  But I suppose that's true for any of the 1 ounce silver bullion coins, though ASEs are likely the worst offenders.  However, Libertads have had some insanity as well.  It's really a shame...I remember a time when both ASEs and Libertads were fun and affordable options for collectors.....though this was back when I first started collecting as an adult, so 1999-2000ish.  I don't know....but what I do know is that the U.S. Mint sure knows how to spot a cash cow and milk it to death, and the collectors are the ones who pay in the long term.

Yup, when I can pick up Austrian “Phils”, Britannias, and Maples across the counter at major U. S. shows for LESS than ASE’s, and I CAN, something’s gone wacky. Even Libertads are frequently competitive with ASE’s.

Edited December 8, 2021 by VKurtB

[Morpheus1967]

On 12/7/2021 at 10:02 PM, Tony Follis said:

If anyone is just merely wanting gold or silver bullion maybe they should go to an online bullion dealer such as sdbullion.com instead of buying ASE's or gold coins. Anyway it's  just a thought.

To the OP: If you're wanting a total of twenty one ounces of silver ( buying twenty one ASE's equals twenty one ounces of silver) you could buy one NGC graded 2021 type 1 or type 2 MS70 ASE and two ten ounce bars of silver from sdbullion.com (the bars of silver will appreciate in value at a much faster pace than ASE's) which would be a lot cheaper compared to buying twenty - one ASE's since it seems to me that you're just looking to make a quick buck or trade and not be a true ASE collector which requires time and a lot of patience for ASE's to appreciate in value.

I'm sorry, but this is a ridiculous statement.  Silver eagles will always maintain a higher premium than a generic bar of silver, especially a 10 ounce bar.  If the value of the 10 ounce bar rises, the silver eagle will rise at a rate at LEAST commensurate to that of the  bar.  

Edited December 8, 2021 by Morpheus1967

[Reno Raines]

Morpheus1967, with all due respect a ten ounce bar of silver on average goes for $300.00+ on ebay or any other silver dealer website everyday while an ASE in either NGC MS70 or PF70 in most cases doesn't go for nowhere near as high a a ten ounce bar. For example, I recently bought a NGC MS70 2013 Burnished ASE on ebay for a total of $91.12 NGC has that coin listed at $150.00 in that grade in the price guide currently. ASE's melt value is currently around $3.00 - $5.00 over the SPOT price silver (depending on the year) while if you buy a ten ounce bar from a silver dealer it already has a serial number (in most cases) on it and commands a premium.  Another thing is the OP said he wants to buy twenty one ASE's for every year. That's all fine and dandy but it would cost him in the ballpark of $2,000.00+  for UNGRADED ASE's for every year. I was just basically giving him a cheaper way of acquiring the twenty one ounce he wants in the shortest amount of time so that he would be able to turn a profit if he wants.

Always remember that professional money managers who control hundreds of billions of dollars are going to buy bars of gold and silver for their clients in uncertain times, when the stock markets looses hundreds of points in a trading session or in ultra high inflation times to protect their client's wealth and not coins made from those medals. The cheapest way the average person can have access to gold and silver is either by buying gold and silver coins or by investing in the GLD or SLV. The GLD is exchange traded fund that tracks the everyday movement of the price of gold per troy ounce and is backed by physical gold but you have to pay a certain percentage. The SLV is the same as the GLD but it tracks the everyday movement of the price of silver again per troy ounce.

Anyway I hope this helps everybody understand my previous statement regarding the subject.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Tony Follis

[J P M]

On 12/8/2021 at 5:10 AM, Tony Follis said:

Morpheus1967, with all due respect a ten ounce bar of silver on average goes for $300.00+ on ebay or any other silver dealer website everyday while an ASE in either NGC MS70 or PF70 in most cases doesn't go for nowhere near as high a a ten ounce bar. For example, I recently bought a NGC MS70 2013 Burnished ASE on ebay for a total of $91.12 NGC has that coin listed at $150.00 in that grade in the price guide currently. ASE's melt value is currently around $3.00 - $5.00 over the SPOT price silver (depending on the year) while if you buy a ten ounce bar from a silver dealer it already has a serial number (in most cases) on it and commands a premium.  Another thing is the OP said he wants to buy twenty one ASE's for every year. That's all fine and dandy but it would cost him in the ballpark of $2,000.00+  for UNGRADED ASE's for every year. I was just basically giving him a cheaper way of acquiring the twenty one ounce he wants in the shortest amount of time so that he would be able to turn a profit if he wants.

Always remember that professional money managers who control hundreds of billions of dollars are going to buy bars of gold and silver for their clients in uncertain times, when the stock markets looses hundreds of points in a trading session or in ultra high inflation times to protect their client's wealth and not coins made from those medals. The cheapest way the average person can have access to gold and silver is either by buying gold and silver coins or by investing in the GLD or SLV. The GLD is exchange traded fund that tracks the everyday movement of the price of gold per troy ounce and is backed by physical gold but you have to pay a certain percentage. The SLV is the same as the GLD but it tracks the everyday movement of the price of silver again per troy ounce.

Anyway I hope this helps everybody understand my previous statement regarding the subject.

Question ? So 10 ungraded one ounce silver eagles will not sell for as high a price as one 10 ounce silver bar ?. Also what about some dates are rare and worth more than other dates?

[Morpheus1967]

On 12/8/2021 at 5:10 AM, Tony Follis said:

Morpheus1967, with all due respect a ten ounce bar of silver on average goes for $300.00+ on ebay or any other silver dealer website everyday while an ASE in either NGC MS70 or PF70 in most cases doesn't go for nowhere near as high a a ten ounce bar. For example, I recently bought a NGC MS70 2013 Burnished ASE on ebay for a total of $91.12 NGC has that coin listed at $150.00 in that grade in the price guide currently. ASE's melt value is currently around $3.00 - $5.00 over the SPOT price silver (depending on the year) while if you buy a ten ounce bar from a silver dealer it already has a serial number (in most cases) on it and commands a premium.  Another thing is the OP said he wants to buy twenty one ASE's for every year. That's all fine and dandy but it would cost him in the ballpark of $2,000.00+  for UNGRADED ASE's for every year. I was just basically giving him a cheaper way of acquiring the twenty one ounce he wants in the shortest amount of time so that he would be able to turn a profit if he wants.

Always remember that professional money managers who control hundreds of billions of dollars are going to buy bars of gold and silver for their clients in uncertain times, when the stock markets looses hundreds of points in a trading session or in ultra high inflation times to protect their client's wealth and not coins made from those medals. The cheapest way the average person can have access to gold and silver is either by buying gold and silver coins or by investing in the GLD or SLV. The GLD is exchange traded fund that tracks the everyday movement of the price of gold per troy ounce and is backed by physical gold but you have to pay a certain percentage. The SLV is the same as the GLD but it tracks the everyday movement of the price of silver again per troy ounce.

Anyway I hope this helps everybody understand my previous statement regarding the subject.

I'm not even talking about graded coins.  So you mean to tell me you are actually comparing a single silver eagle to a 10 ounce bar?  

Nowhere on this planet will 20 raw silver eagles a year cost $2,000.  You are comparing raw eagles to graded eagles to 10 ounce bars.  Your argument does not hold water.  

Also, it is not "typical" for 10 ounce bars to have serial numbers.  Some of the higher end collectible bars will, like Engelhard.  But most definitely will not. 

Edited December 8, 2021 by Morpheus1967

[Reno Raines]

J P Mashoke, that is correct as investors prefer ten ounce silver bars (ten ounce bars are very popular for average people to invest in silver) over ten ASE's. Check out recent sales of ten ounce bars vs ten ASE's. It applies to all dates of ASE's regardless if it's the regular, proof or burnished version of an ASE in  NGC MS70 or PF70. The main reason is bars of silver and gold are widely used as a hedge against the things I listed in my previous post and  not coins made from those medals and are much easier to sell in good times for a profit. If fact this past Friday I brought my ten ounce bar of silver to work and my boss offered to buy it from me for $320.00 on the spot in cash. I bought that bar back in 2008 when the spot silver price was $8.00 per troy ounce and currently the spot silver price is around $22.00 - $23.00 per troy ounce.

[Morpheus1967]

On 12/8/2021 at 7:06 AM, Tony Follis said:

J P Mashoke, that is correct as investors prefer ten ounce silver bars (ten ounce bars are very popular for average people to invest in silver) over ten ASE's. Check out recent sales of ten ounce bars vs ten ASE's. It applies to all dates of ASE's regardless if it's the regular, proof or burnished version of an ASE in  NGC MS70 or PF70. The main reason is bars of silver and gold are widely used as a hedge against the things I listed in my previous post and  not coins made from those medals and are much easier to sell in good times for a profit. If fact this past Friday I brought my ten ounce bar of silver to work and my boss offered to buy it from me for $320.00 on the spot in cash. I bought that bar back in 2008 when the spot silver price was $8.00 per troy ounce and currently the spot silver price is around $22.00 - $23.00 per troy ounce.

Why do you keep comparing graded eagles to bullion??  NOWHERE does the OP say anything about graded eagles.  

[Morpheus1967]

On 12/8/2021 at 6:54 AM, J P Mashoke said:

Question ? So 10 ungraded one ounce silver eagles will not sell for as high a price as one 10 ounce silver bar ?. Also what about some dates are rare and worth more than other dates?

10 raw silver eagles will undoubtedly get you more per ounce than a generic 10 ounce bar.  

[Reno Raines]

On 12/8/2021 at 7:09 AM, Morpheus1967 said:

Why do you keep comparing graded eagles to bullion??  NOWHERE does the OP say anything about graded eagles.  

As we all know ASE's are made from one troy ounce of fine silver. The OP did say that he intends on keeping one for his collection  but buying 20 for every year which more than likely means he'll get it graded somewhere down the line in order for it to qualify for the NGC registry or any other online registry. The last time I saw ungraded 2021 type 2 ASE's they were selling for nearly $100.00 each.

[Reno Raines]

On 12/8/2021 at 7:10 AM, Morpheus1967 said:

10 raw silver eagles will undoubtedly get you more per ounce than a generic 10 ounce bar.  

I don't think you're looking at the bigger picture. An ASE is more likely to be bought by a coin collector while silver bars on the other hand have a much wider audience and are faster to sell in order to raise some quick cash in a very short amount of time.

[Reno Raines]

If the ten ounce bar is bought at a respectable gold and silver dealer it will have a serial number. I never said to buy any generic silver bars without a serial number -  to insure the purity of the silver. I was just showing that a person selling ASE's might not be able to get the NGC listed value for the coin at auction nothing more.

 

Bottom line: Every money manger who knows what they're doing will tell you that you have to have a minimum of 25% of your total portfolio value in bars of gold and silver to preserve your wealth.

[Mr.Bill347]

Regarding ASE, Morgan s , Peace, I’m kinds burning out on them . Why?

ridiculous and ludicrous production levels set, inflated prices plus shipping, the whole buy before they are made thing, then the cost and wait time to get them graded. Yes, I was fortunate to get both 2021 ASEs and the 2021 Morgan and the 2021 Peace dollars, but this was an intention effort on My part. Now that I’m sitting around  waiting (for 1 month) already, for the coins to get graded and returned, I believe I’m done with them . The poor quality, cheaper capsules, the mint web circus and other relative things have cost me and taught me a lesson. It is far more rewarding to find other silver bullion coins from other countries that are very satisfactory with out all the hassles. Examples two Canadian 1 oz silver dollars 1960, 63 for a lot less than the ole mint. I may get one later in the year as a graded after market coin. But that’s it. That’s my viewpoint. By silver walkers or pre 1964 Benjamin’s fir bullion value. Don’t get hung up on the “popular” new stuff. It’s a very good marketing program that we all need to step back from and ask ourselves if this is really worth it. JMHO

[Raygun99]

I have learned a lot from my original question and the spirited discussion that ensued.  Not sure if it will change my direction but let me clarify any assumptions.

1) I am not a sophisticated collector -- I just wanted to fill that next slot in my annual Silver Eagle collection, not graded.

2) The other 20 shipped in the sealed tube to be held for future .  Possibly graded in the future, possibly sold as is, or broken out for individual sales.  

I had some assumption that because they are US Mint issue the requirement to have assay made them somewhat more trustworthy vs having to have a non-stamped bullion bar.  That certainly gets more clouded as more sophisticated counterfeits come from all over the place.  I suspect even the ASE inventory are peppered or will be with impure/diluted silver if the margin was beneficial. 

Thank you everyone for your more intelligent views of this market, and practical approaches.  I guess everyone has a different reason to collect.  I seem to straddle the "investment" side and the "artistic" side. The ASE is just a beautiful coin to own.  In that regard art has a premium, and investment has risk/patience. 

Edited December 8, 2021 by Raygun99

[Morpheus1967]

On 12/8/2021 at 7:36 AM, Tony Follis said:

Bottom line: Every money manger who knows what they're doing will tell you that you have to have a minimum of 25% of your total portfolio value in bars of gold and silver to preserve your wealth.

Jim Cramer says 10% max.

Link

Forbes says 5%-15% max.

Link

Provident says as much as 20%.  And they sell precious metals!

Link

The Street says 5%-10% max.

Link

Marketwatch.com says 4%.

Link

 

So you go ahead and do 25% minimum.  

 

[VKurtB]

On 12/8/2021 at 6:14 AM, Tony Follis said:

The last time I saw ungraded 2021 type 2 ASE's they were selling for nearly $100.

REALLY? That does NOT square with what I see at coin shows. $32 - $35. Chattanooga. A few weeks ago. Some at $30.

Edited December 8, 2021 by VKurtB

[VKurtB]

On 12/8/2021 at 6:36 AM, Tony Follis said:

Bottom line: Every money manger who knows what they're doing will tell you that you have to have a minimum of 25% of your total portfolio value in bars of gold and silver to preserve your wealth.

That is simply INSANE. NOBODY who knows anything recommends that. 

[Alex in PA.]

On 12/8/2021 at 4:11 PM, VKurtB said:

$32 - $35.

$33.62 today at Pinehurst.  Did you hear about the Gator they trapped in the Lehigh River at Palmerton?  Got the little fella (4 feet) out before he froze to death

[VKurtB]

On 12/8/2021 at 3:17 PM, Alex in PA. said:

$33.62 today at Pinehurst.  Did you hear about the Gator they trapped in the Lehigh River at Palmerton?  Got the little fella (4 feet) out before he froze to death

I once dated a woman from up there. I think they may be related.