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34 posts in this topic

On 11/11/2021 at 5:39 PM, Jblindy said:

It is very disheartening but it’s their right to kneel if they choose to do so. I and any others here who currently serve or have served will defend that right. 

I thank you so much for saying this, Jblindy, and understanding the stances of myself and my parents.  My late mom would be quite happy to read what you wrote.

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On 11/11/2021 at 6:01 PM, Hoghead515 said:

Thats just my feelings. Our veterans have fought and died for this country. My grandparents were veterans. Its like spitting in their face when these people burn flags and cant show respect for the flag when they play the anthem. I just dont see how they can disrespect it like that. No matter how bad I feel ill never take a knee to the flag. Theres many things happening I dont agree with today that I really feel bad over and would like to protest. But I want to protest aginst the people thats doing it. Dont want to disrespect my country and kneel to the flag our great veterans have fought under. 

That's all a fair point and, of course, you are completely entitled to your point of view and your feelings.  That's what my whole point and what my parents felt on it was all about.  Freedom of speech and perspective, the freedom to peacefully protest what you feel is wrong and the right to these things.

Edited by Mohawk
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On 11/11/2021 at 4:18 PM, Mohawk said:

While I agree with much of what you said, my friend, I have to take a bit of an exception with the anthem kneeling part of it.....that's part of free speech and expression.  There have been times over the past four/five years that my mom and dad, themselves both veterans as I said, would have kneeled themselves to protest the things that were being protested by those who kneeled.  I know this because they both said this to me.  Without getting too political, neither one of them was any happier with the past four/five years than I was.  They took no issue with the anthem kneeling whatsoever.  They've both said to that the freedom to speak out peacefully against things you think are wrong and trying to push to change things for the better are exactly what they served for.  Just because my parents served this country and loved it in their own ways doesn't mean that they thought (or still think in the case of my dad) that it's perfect and that there aren't things that could change for the better.  I think being Vietnam Era vets had a big impact on them.  Though they were in the military and served honorably and with distinction, they were both strongly against the Vietnam War, actually.  They certainly did their jobs and definitely didn't hold anything against their fellow soldiers, but they definitely held it against the politicians involved in their later years.  I don't remember exactly how my mom said it to me, but the gist of it was that she felt that the more important part of her duty in the military was to preserve the rights of those protesting the war to protest the war than to win an unwinnable war that had already cost far too many lives.  I apologize for edging into something political again, but I know that my mom would want me to say this.

I must register my strong dissent here, Mohawk. I call male bovine feces.

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On 11/11/2021 at 7:13 PM, VKurtB said:

I must register my strong dissent here, Mohawk. I call male bovine feces.

Why?  I want to know why you're calling this BS.  Do you know what my parents said to me and how they felt about things?  As far as I know, you didn't know my mom and you don't know my dad, so how can you claim BS on this?

Edited by Mohawk
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On 11/11/2021 at 6:14 PM, Mohawk said:

Why?  I want to know why you're calling this BS.  Do you know what my parents said to me and how they felt about things?  As far as I know, you didn't know my mom and you don't know my dad, so how can you claim BS on this?

I’m saying I believe what THEY believed is BS. Clear enough?

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On 11/11/2021 at 7:21 PM, VKurtB said:

I’m saying I believe what THEY believed is BS. Clear enough?

Okay....I understand what you're saying.  And that's your right to think that way.  However, I believe what you believe is BS in this case, too, because I happen to agree with my folks.  Guess we're even.  Actually....I just got thinking about this.....are you against people peacefully protesting things that they think are wrong?  Because it kind of sounds to me like you are if those people are disagreeing with what you believe.  That's not a very American stance, I must say.

Edited by Mohawk
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On 11/11/2021 at 7:02 PM, bsshog40 said:

It's a shame this post had to get political. All I will add is I had a cousin die in Vietnam when he was 19 yrs old. I'm an American Veteran and I stand for our flag. I despise those who choose to kneel before it and/or burn it.  For those people, they need to find another country with a flag they believe in. This one stands for those who died for it!!!!

I WOULD agree with that part about finding another country EXCEPT it’s nearly impossible. No one wants ANY American unless they’re filthy rich. Try to research moving somewhere else as an average guy. You can’t. Only we are stupid enough to have open borders. 

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On 11/11/2021 at 8:02 PM, bsshog40 said:

It's a shame this post had to get political.

It actually is a shame.  I honestly did not mean to get political or open this Pandora's Box, but my mom meant a lot to me, she still does, and I guess her stance on free speech and freedom to peacefully protest means a lot to me, too.  I didn't mean to upset anyone or anything like that, but I wanted to properly honor her teachings to me and her memory, even though there are those who disagree with it.  I think that the flag of this country and the national anthem can mean different things to different people and those meanings don't always jive or agree with each other.  This is true of almost any symbol and that's what the flag and the anthem both are, symbols.  But we should be able to express those opinions, thoughts and meanings.  We should be able to live our authentic experiences, follow our consciences and do what we think is right for ourselves as long as it's peaceful and we're not placing other people in danger or dehumanizing other people by doing so.  It's just a shame that there's often not a civil discussion to be had between those with these differing viewpoints. And I'm not blaming one side of the argument or the other when I say this....I'm just stating it as a fact between the different sides of the argument.  That's all.

Edited by Mohawk
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On 11/11/2021 at 8:01 PM, Mohawk said:

It actually is a shame.  I honestly did not mean to get political or open this Pandora's Box, but my mom meant a lot to me and I guess her stance on free speech and freedom to peacefully protest means a lot to me, too.  I didn't mean to upset anyone or anything like that, but I wanted to properly honor her teachings to me and her memory, even though there are those who disagree with it.  I think that the flag of this country and the national anthem can mean different things to different people and those meanings don't always jive or agree with each other.  This is true of almost any symbol and that's what the flag and the anthem both are, symbols.  But we should be able to express those opinions, thoughts and meanings.  We should be able to live our authentic experiences, follow our consciences and do what we think is right for ourselves as long as it's peaceful and we're not placing other people in danger or dehumanizing other people by doing so.  It's just a shame that there's often not a civil discussion to be had between those with these differing viewpoints. And I'm not blaming one side of the argument or the other when I say this....I'm just stating it as a fact between the different sides of the argument.  That's all.

I agree with YOU here Mohawk. There is more diversity of thought in this country (okay, maybe not my new adopted home state so much) than I once could imagine. I frankly never knew ANYONE growing up who was what we once called a “dissident”. They were just sleazy looking guys with long hair on TV to me. They weren’t real. The Chicago 7 were cartoonish people who I was taught to hate with every fiber of my being. Being a flag-waver was just EXPECTED, and if we tried hanging out with “hippies”, our folks would shut that down ultra-fast. The ultra-left to me growing up WAS Lyndon B. Johnson. My old man LOVED HIM some Barry Goldwater. 

Edited by VKurtB
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