Has this coin been “wizzed?” 1 1

[Deiter]

Good morning Gang,

as I learn to hone my eye I just want to confirm that I’m correctly identified symptoms of tampering. It wasn’t easy to get pics that actually show these lines as they are very faint amd only show at a certain angle against the light. 
 

are the vertical lines running straight down over reverse of this 1881s classic wizzing? 
 

would this get a “cleaned” grade at NGC? 
 

the SEGS slab holding this baby has her listed as MS66 DMPL. 
 

what would you grade it if based on the reverse alone ? ( I know that’s not a thing btw)  What would NGC grade it?  
 

more straight forward, what is the score of the reverse of this coin 1881s in your opinion? 
 

im very grateful for this forum. Thanks to all you vets who make it such a great resource for new guys like me. 
best,

Deiter 
 

 

 

[GBrad]

On 10/30/2021 at 11:05 AM, Deiter said:

would this get a “cleaned” grade at NGC? 

All day long IMHO.

[Mohawk]

On 10/30/2021 at 12:48 PM, GBrad said:

All day long IMHO.

Yep. Definitely.  That's a Details piece at NGC for sure.

[GBrad]

On 10/30/2021 at 11:05 AM, Deiter said:

the SEGS slab holding this baby has her listed as MS66 DMPL

Another thing Deiter.  This coin IMO is not a DMPL, nor would it straight grade at MS66.  Not sure if you, or who, purchased it under the guise of the slab label but I can assure you it is not a Mint State Morgan.  The price guide shows this coin at over $2,000 for a MS66 DMPL when in reality it is probably a $50+/- coin if that due solely to the damage.  Hopefully you or someone else didn't get taken on this one.  

Edited October 30, 2021 by GBrad

[Deiter]

@GBrad I paid 220$ for it in an auction from live auctioneers when I was just getting started. 
I am now making my way through the 100+ coins that I purchased to separate the wheat from the chaff. 
luckily, early on I took advice from a dealer to only buy NGC/PCGS slabs for 80% of them. 
 

thanks for the help guys. 
 

[GBrad]

On 10/30/2021 at 1:58 PM, Deiter said:

@GBrad I paid 220$ for it in an auction from live auctioneers when I was just getting started. 
I am now making my way through the 100+ coins that I purchased to separate the wheat from the chaff. 
luckily, early on I took advice from a dealer to only buy NGC/PCGS slabs for 80% of them. 
 

thanks for the help guys. 
 

@Deiter First of all I should have welcomed you to the forum, so Welcome! Secondly, believe me.... everyone here (except for maybe two members whom I love and respect them both no doubt) have made mistakes like this in the past.  Sometimes it's a BIG mistake, sometimes not.  Luckily your purchase wasn't "too" big of a hit in the big scheme of things considering what the seller could have tried to pursue price wise based on the "fake" and misleading slab label for this coin.  Water under the bridge so to speak and a valuable, albeit a little costly, learning experience. 

[Coinbuf]

I cannot say for certain yes or no from this set of photos, those lines could be die polish lines.   Notice that the lines appear to go under the devices, under the wing and also under the wreath, usually harsh cleaning lines will continue from the field over the devices as well.   Please note that I said "appear" to go under, the photo is angled and the light is very harsh (partially obscuring the field in the second pic) which makes judging this very difficult.   As you have the coin in hand perhaps you can tell if those lines are raised or incuse.  If those lines are raised then I would say they are die polish lines, if those lines are into the metal (like a tiny valley) then a harsh cleaning is the likely issue.

As to the DMPL or grade given by SEGS I would need better photos before I would be able to comment especially with no obv photo, I do agree that from these photos a DMPL designation seems unlikely.

 

Edited to add:  I am not inclined to call this whizzed, whizzing usually leaves the surface more satin like and you see metal build up around the devices, I really do not see that but again tough to say from these pics.

Edited October 30, 2021 by Coinbuf

[DWLange]

I'm inclined to agree with Coinbuf that those lines were in the die and transferred to the coin. Whizzing is a rotary action that doesn't leave straight lines. Conventional cleaning could leave parallel lines, but the photos suggests die polishing instead.

[Jason Abshier]

I agree as well looks like it was harshly polished die before striking the coin all lines flowing in same direction under wings and lettering . Whizzing would of been all over the eagle and wings somewhat polishing the details down as well . I don’t see this on this coin definitely looks like harshly polished die or they used a very stiff wire brush to clean the dies up before striking the coin it left the marks on it perfectly in fields and not right over the eagle 

[bsshog40]

I looked at the pics this morning. When I zoomed in I was also thinking die polish lines as the lines looked all parallel to me. Didn't have time to respond, the pics are kind of poor and just decided to check this thread later. I think coinbuf has it. 

Edited October 31, 2021 by bsshog40

[J P M]

All the lines go the same way . I agree with the big guns on this one die polished marks.